Your thoughts on the 6.5 PRC for hunting?

[MCMXI]

I'd like to start a fact-based discussion on the merits, or lack thereof, of the 6.5 PRC cartridge strictly in terms of hunting. The 6.5 PRC has been presented as a solution to a problem for the PRS crowd, but I don't know if it has any value for those competing on that circut or not. Many are going smaller with the 6mm Creedmoor and similar. Regardless, where does it sit for hunters?

I basically have one hunting rifle that I use for everything. It's a Kimber 8400 Talkeetna chambered in .375 H&H that I've modified by cutting the barrel down to 22" along with some other upgrades. I currently shoot a 250gr TTSX bullet at 2,800 fps and have taken game out to 465 yards. The rifle weighs 9lb all in compared to the 8400 WSM 6.5 PRC that I put together that weighs 7-3/4lb all in (both with Zeiss Conquest RZ scopes). I can probably get a 147gr bullet to go 3,000 fps and know that I can push a 142gr bullet to 3,100 fps. For my situation, I can see this 6.5 PRC as being useful for longer range, lighter game hunting e.g. sheep, but then again I only have one other hunting rifle in addition to this 6.5 PRC/.308 Win/300 WSM ... yes, I have all three barrels for this rifle.

I've done some initial ballistics/recoil comparisons for the .280 AI and the 6.5 PRC in the Kimber 84L and 8400 WSM platforms in an attempt to make more sense of where this 6.5 PRC might have value, but I plan on expanding the comparison to 6.5 CM, 270 WSM and 300 WSM.

So what are your thoughts re the 6.5 PRC for hunting?

Thanks.

 

[horsey300]

I'd like to start a fact-based discussion on the merits, or lack thereof, of the 6.5 PRC cartridge strictly in terms of hunting. The 6.5 PRC has been presented as a solution to a problem for the PRS crowd, but I don't know if it has any value for those competing on that circut or not. Many are going smaller with the 6mm Creedmoor and similar. Regardless, where does it sit for hunters?

I basically have one hunting rifle that I use for everything. It's a Kimber 8400 Talkeetna chambered in .375 H&H that I've modified by cutting the barrel down to 22" along with some other upgrades. I currently shoot a 250gr TTSX bullet at 2,800 fps and have taken game out to 465 yards. The rifle weighs 9lb all in compared to the 8400 WSM 6.5 PRC that I put together that weighs 7-3/4lb all in (both with Zeiss Conquest RZ scopes). I can probably get a 147gr bullet to go 3,000 fps and know that I can push a 142gr bullet to 3,100 fps. For my situation, I can see this 6.5 PRC as being useful for longer range, lighter game hunting e.g. sheep, but then again I only have one other hunting rifle in addition to this 6.5 PRC/.308 Win/300 WSM ... yes, I have all three barrels for this rifle.

I've done some initial ballistics/recoil comparisons for the .280 AI and the 6.5 PRC in the Kimber 84L and 8400 WSM platforms in an attempt to make more sense of where this 6.5 PRC might have value, but I plan on expanding the comparison to 6.5 CM, 270 WSM and 300 WSM.

So what are your thoughts re the 6.5 PRC for hunting?

Thanks.

I'll put it in with the 6.5 leopard/saum/264wm/26 nosler. Which is to say, I think it's wonderful concept. If you compare sd to the big 30s the 6.5 is MUCH more efficient. Add in the pretty b.c. numbers and it gets even better. With a bonded heavy offering or the heavy 160 gr bullets, it's not what I'd call a charge stopper, but still a heavy hitter up close as well. The .270wsm also fills this role nicely but is sadly another unsung hero. I'm all for 6.5 barrel burning magnum performance in the hunting world.
Now for the pessimistic realism that such performance will be a niche concern for the general population. Many folks are getting more involved with a 6.5 of some kind than ever before, but the perk is efficiency vs recoil. If we're gonna kick out elk to moose dropping sd bullets at 2900-3100 fps, too many folks that are interested in such concepts are gonna push back with "I already got a 7 mag, what can this do that it can't?" Of course the efficiency and slightly reduced recoil are worth noting, but it's going to take at least a generation for the 6.5 crowd to truly demand magnum performance when their creeds are already out performing the general hunting population's skills/demands. I don't care for the amount of powder a nosler case soaks up, but like the saum/WSM performance. I hope that in another 10 years we can get enough folks on board with something similar to make it viable, but as with the 6.5 norma/06/wm offerings being ahead of their time, I'm skeptical of the PRC having the same overnight success of the creed.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

^^^nailed it^^^ strictly for hunting I put the 6.5 PRC in company with the 264WM, 7mag and the 257 Weatherby. I feel like the PRC is as good or better than the others, when it comes to extended range deer, sheep, and antelope hunting. The Nosler offerings just don't trip my fancy for some reason.

 

[jmr40]

My thoughts.

We've had fast 6.5's for a while. Winchesters 264 mag has been around for a while and had today's better bullets been available years ago it might have been more successful. The 26 Nosler has been around for a handful of years as has the 6.5-06. None have been a huge success, and barrel life has always been a concern. The 6.5 PRC is a good enough round, but I don't predict long term success for the same reason the previous fast 6.5's had limited success.

The reason the 6.5 CM is successful is that it uses high BC bullets at moderate speeds with low recoil. A 140-147 gr 6.5 bullet at 2700 fps at the muzzle is still fast enough out 700 yards for most big game. The faster 6.5's will add another 100-200 yards to that and shoot flatter. But with today's optics flat trajectory just isn't as important. Of course the downside is shorter barrel life, added costs and recoil. The 6.5 CM exceeds my skills, so the faster 6.5 would be wasted on me. Not to say others couldn't use them. I think we need to be honest with ourselves; just how far do we have the skills to shoot.

A 140+ gr 6.5 bullet will do anything to big game that a 150 gr 270 bullet will do and that combo has killed a lot of big game, not just deer.

I've had several 7mm and 30 caliber magnums over the years. I don't dislike them, and to be honest the WSM line is the way I'd go if I wanted another magnum. But once again, I came to the conclusion that I can do anything with a 6.5CM, 7-08 or 308 that I need to do. Any of those are an elk round out to at least 400 yards and farther on deer size game. That is as far as I can shoot. But at the same time I'm not critical of anyone who wants to use one.

 

[Varminterror]

The 6.5 PRC was designed to run a 6.5mm bullet right up against the speed limit for PRS type games. While there ARE matches/courses out there where the improved BC and velocity of the 6.5 PRC is an advantage over others, most courses/matches are easily dominated by lower recoiling 6mm's like 6 creed, 6x47, or even the Dasher. Which is really to say - most matches just don't go much past 1200yrds, and low recoil matters as much or more than maximal trajectory.

For hunting, however, the 6.5 PRC will be fantastic. Some guys might claim it light for long range elk, but I expect we'll see a number of success stories in the near future without any of the caveats which accompanied some cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel or even creed for said application. There are cartridges in that realm already, and no reason the 6.5 PRC would do any less than any of those which went before.

 

[MCMXI]

I've built a 6.5 PRC on the Kimber 8400 WSM Montana platform. The rifle/scope weigh in at 7.75 lb and the factory Hornady 147gr load has bullets leaving the muzzle at 2,850 fps. Compare this to a Kimber 84M Montana in 6.5 CM with a typical rifle/scope weight of 6.70 lb (same scope as used on the 8400 WSM) and a Kimber 84M in .308 Win with the same scope and slightly lighter. A recoil calculator puts the 6.5 PRC in between the 6.5 CM and .308 Win in terms of recoil energy with 13.74 for the 6.5 CM, 15.70 for the 6.5 PRC and 18.16 for the .308 Win. I've found the PRC to be easy to shoot with very manageable recoil, little enough to see a steel target react at 400 yards. In theory you get the impressive BC of the .264 cal bullets, 200 fps or more over the CM and less recoil than a .308 Win.

I guess my interest here is why would someone buy a hunting rifle chambered in 6.5 PRC, particularly if they already have a 6.5 CM? Could the 6.5 PRC replace two rifles for a hunter, let's say a 6.5 CM and a .308 Win or 6.5 CM and 300 WSM? As I mentioned in my first post, I only have one "real" hunting rifle. I have a Remington Ti 300 WSM and a Savage WW in 7mm-08 Rem but don't use either. Maybe this 6.5 PRC and the .375 H&H are all I'll ever need to hunt anything in this country, or north of the border all the way to Alaska, and including all plains game in Africa.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I dearly love the 6.5/06. It is accurate, easy on the shoulder and punches way above its weight. The 6.5 PRC is pretty close in performance to the 6.5/06 or the 6.5/284. Built on a svelte platform with the mountains in mind it’d make a very nice general purpose and long range rifle. That being said my custom cross canyon sheep gun is a M-70 in 270 Wthby. Having it to do over in today’s world, it would have been a 6.5 and the PRC would have been a strong candidate. However with good modern bullets I am not giving up much or possibly any real world advantage by sticking with my .270 Bee.

Preoccupation with inconsequential increments is something I try to avoid. Doing so creates peace and serenity within my already turbulent riflemans mind.

I am not against the PRC and think it will make a fine rifle for somebody trying to fill the niche that I mentioned above. It just doesn’t offer enough more of anything to make me go out and have one built. I would like to play with one if they ever start coming out in decent factory rifles.

 

[GooseGestapo]

My experience is a bit different.
First, the 6.5 DOES NOT have a sectional density advantage over the .30’s.
It does have favorable b.c.’s (ballistic coefficients), but again doesn’t have an advantage. It’s advantage is equal trajectories and wind drifts with significantly less powder charges, recoil, and barrel wear.

A .308” 220gr bullet has a S.D. of .334, whereas the 160gr .264” is .328. A practical “apples to apples comparison”.

My .300 RUM gets 3,000 fps with a 220gr bullet, using 90+gr of powder.
However, no responsible guide will encourage a shot over 400yds, nor would I attempt one.
Another advantage of the .30’s is a wider wound channel. Like the old-school hot rodders used to say, there is no replacement for displacement. Likewise, my .375Ruger overshadows my .30’s. But, is it really needed in N.America is a valid question.
A well placed shot with a 6.5 Will work, but it’s not better than it’s .30cal big brother in the hunting world. Sorry, my BTDT opinion based on experience with both calibers. My preference actually is with the 7mm’s.

The 6.5’s forte is lower recoil, facilitating shot placement which is the most critical aspect of big game hunting. But there is nothing “magical” about the 6.5’s.

 

[MCgunner]

I've been loading and shooting for 55 of my 65 years, started out helping my grandpa in the "loading room" and learning. Grandpa had a "PO Ackley Reloading Handbook" that I would read cover to cover. In all that time, latest and greatest calibers have come and gone. It's getting down right confusing. For me, I figure if it ain't broke don't fix it, and my .308 ain't broke, so I ain't gonna fix it. I could say the same for my .257 Roberts or my 7mm Rem Mag.

All these new wonder calibers might have an advantage here or there on paper, but really, why should I go to all the expense of always having the latest and greatest? About 30 years ago the 7mm STW was all the talk in the 'zines. Now, I can find 7mm Rem Mag ammo quicker than I can 7mm STW. I handload, but still, it shows what stuck around and what faded to look at ammo availability. .257 Roberts must be handloaded to be appreciated. It's a dead caliber. You'd think it didn't work anymore, but it still seems to kill deer just as dead as the first one I shot with it 54 years ago.

Oh, I'm just an old man ranting. Carry on about how good the 6.5 this or that is. LOL!

 

[H&Hhunter]

My experience is a bit different.
First, the 6.5 DOES NOT have a sectional density advantage over the .30’s.
It does have favorable b.c.’s (ballistic coefficients), but again doesn’t have an advantage. It’s advantage is equal trajectories and wind drifts with significantly less powder charges, recoil, and barrel wear.

A .308” 220gr bullet has a S.D. of .334, whereas the 160gr .264” is .328. A practical “apples to apples comparison”.

My .300 RUM gets 3,000 fps with a 220gr bullet, using 90+gr of powder.
However, no responsible guide will encourage a shot over 400yds, nor would I attempt one.
Another advantage of the .30’s is a wider wound channel. Like the old-school hot rodders used to say, there is no replacement for displacement. Likewise, my .375Ruger overshadows my .30’s. But, is it really needed in N.America is a valid question.
A well placed shot with a 6.5 Will work, but it’s not better than it’s .30cal big brother in the hunting world. Sorry, my BTDT opinion based on experience with both calibers. My preference actually is with the 7mm’s.

The 6.5’s forte is lower recoil, facilitating shot placement which is the most critical aspect of big game hunting. But there is nothing “magical” about the 6.5’s.

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote here. I will say however that you identified the “magic” of the 6.5. Low recoil in the smallest round that I consider a capable big game caliber. The 6.5 makes an excellent round for youngsters and other recoil aware shooters. The problem with the old go to .243 is that you can get decent SD or BC easily in a 6MM bullet. The 6.5 allows for excellent bullet selection and low recoil. My daughter switched from a .30-06 to a 6.5-06. She has been really happy with that rifle and she’s potted a pile of critters with it.

And let’s be perfectly honest. If you are keeping your shots to 400 yards and under none of this stuff is really all that important. So pick a round you like and stick with it. I really enjoy the .308 for general hunting. My other daughter also shoots a .308 as does my wife. None of them have had any issue killing deer and antelope out to 400 and maybe a few more yards.

I will tell you this though, there is a noticeable difference past 300 yards between a 140 gr 6.5 launched at almost 2900 FPS from a my little girls 6.5/06 and our .308’s shooting 165 gr bullets at about 2700 FPS. The 6.5 is carrying the mail at a much feistier clip on deer and antelope sized game. On elk not so much.

 

[MCgunner]

Does anyone even remember the .264 Winchester Magnum????

 

[H&Hhunter]

Does anyone even remember the .264 Winchester Magnum????

There you go making sense again!

The PRC defenders are going to say, no belt, more efficient etc etc... I agree with you though. No real world difference.

 

[Varminterror]

I’ve never understood why guys get so bent out of shape about a new round coming out which competes with older rounds?

Is there significantly less difference between the 6.5 PRC and 264wm/6.5-06/6.5-284 than there is between .30-06, .308win, .300rum, .300wm, .300savage, .30TC, 7.62x54, .300wsm and a dozen or more cartridges which push a 30 cal bullet between 150-200grns somewhere between 2700-3000fps?

Can someone explain the logic in complaining about a new round, simply because it’s similar to an old round? Especially one without a few particular hassles inherent to the old rounds?

 

[MCgunner]

I’ve never understood why guys get so bent out of shape about a new round coming out which competes with older rounds?

Is there significantly less difference between the 6.5 PRC and 264wm/6.5-06/6.5-284 than there is between .30-06, .308win, .300rum, .300wm, .300savage, .30TC, 7.62x54, .300wsm and a dozen or more cartridges which push a 30 cal bullet between 150-200grns somewhere between 2700-3000fps?

Can someone explain the logic in complaining about a new round, simply because it’s similar to an old round? Especially one without a few particular hassles inherent to the old rounds?

It's all about marketing. They have to sell more rifles. Rifles are a durable good, don't wear out that often. SO, they invent some new latest and greatest and most up to datest round that you just GOTTA have or you're back stroking in a freestyle race. This sells new rifles and assures the bottom line doesn't drop too low for rifle manufacturers.

 

[Varminterror]

When’s the last time you saw a factory fresh .264mag on the shelf?

It’s a cop out when guys say it’s just marketing. The .264 has never been terribly popular, and it certainly never will be. I bought my first .264 for under $200 17-18yrs ago at a farm sale on a whim, not wanting the cartridge, but rather the action. Great round, but wasn’t great making brass then, isn’t now.

If a guy is sitting on a .264wm rifle and needing to rebarrel, there may or may not be reason to convert to the PRC - but there’s likely a lot of cost of conversion to replace brass and dies which might hamper this. If a guy is sitting on an old .264 hunting rifle, leave it alone.

But here is my question: If a guy is buying a new rifle, not owning a .264win mag - tell me why a new rifle buyer should undeniably buy a .264wm over a 6.5 PRC?

Remember - we’re in a firearms market where the majority of firearms buyers are buying their FIRST rifle. They’re not - on average - buying “another rifle,” or “replacing a rifle,” or “upgrading their rifle.” The typical rifle buyer in 2018 is a first time rifle buyer.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, personally, I have absolutely NO USE for any 6.5mm caliber rifle. I have a 7mm, a .25 caliber, and a .30 caliber. They all still work. I can't BUY ammo for the .25, either, but I do have dies and brass for it. I don't use it much, anymore. Kinda like this new fangled .308 Winchester I got.

Truth be told, were it not for marketing, load development coulda stopped at .30-06 purely for hunting. The .308 and the .223 would have come along anyway same way the .30-06 did, the military.

But, shoot what ya want. You don't need MY approval. I just pontificate on what's behind all these latest and greatest calibers. And, all I'm saying about the .264 Win Mag is that the choice was there 50 years ago or better if 6.5 had been all THAT an important development. It was competing against Remington's 7mm belted magnum, though, which is STILL popular and for which there is STILL factory ammo and can do anything a 6.5 Win Mag can do plus shoot a heavier bullet.

But, hey, don't let me rain on your parade.