You've Been Selected To Choose Our Next Military Issue Handgun

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CZ75B. Best 9 for the money. I for one care about cost right after reliability-particularly for the military! With the right ammo the 9 is more than deadly with more rounds to boot!

 

[Sean Smith]

you seem to feel the need to insult my opinions. why is that?

You seem to feelt the need to insult alot of other people's opinions. Why is that?

To refresh your memory:

i think its pretty disgusting that so many people are voting "other" and "other" meaning 1911.

closed minded people screaming 1911

You expect me to feel bad for (mildly) mocking you, complete with little happy smiley faces, after you insulted a whole boatload of people in one shot? Suuuure... I'll get right on it. Hint: deranged anti-1911 posts don't make you look any smarter than guys making deranged pro-1911 posts, especially when you are counter-factual in places.

Enough of this silliness.

 

[valnar]

I say a S&W 629. If the troops can't handle the recoil of a .44 Magnum, then f*ck them. Get out of the Army.

-Robert

 

[axeman_g]

my two cents

HIPOWER

Only because of what everyone here is saying.

It is a very serviceable weapon, hi cap (13, 15, 17 or 20+) mags abound. It is very cheap to get made. It is easy to service, great size for small to large hands, longer barrel for sight radius will make it more accurate. It is 9mm, handles anything you throw at it, has ambi safety, will fit current m12 holsters, wont have to procure new holsters.

FN versions can be made in belgium, partner with new LMGs in service now. Sold and serviced out of FN USA ofice in S. Carolina.

everyone complains about the beretta being to large (it is), the 1911 being to old or hard to shoot (it isn't) and the glock being to liable to be misused (it will). why not expect perfection in the form of FNHP.

 

[Bobarino]

Sean,


point taken. perhaps i was too harsh on the pro 1911 folks, and if i offended anyone then please accept my appologies. i do not intend to flame the people or the gun.

i still feel that its slightly pathetic that some folks can't get away from their beloved 1911's long enough to participate in a fictional poll that obviously does not include them on purpose. there are some that more or less, deny the usefullness of anything that is not a 1911. i think that is closed minded. and closed minded people bug me.

its like taking the Pepsi challenge and choosing Gatorade because its your favorite. that wasn't the question. the question is not "what's you favorite firearm?" the question is "which one of the following firearms.......?" and it does not include the 1911. what's so hard to understand about that?

i didn't mean to start a urinating contest with you or anyone else.

all that being said, i'm sticking with the H&K USP becuase i still believe its the best.

take care.

Bobby

 

[krept]

Anyone know of ballistics involving .45 vs 9mm FMJs? I thought they were pretty close to each other.

My only pistol is a USP .45, but if I went to 'war' I might want a cartridge w/ a bullet that penetrates light armor or cover better, like the 9mm NATO loading.

re: the 1911. I think we can agree that the 1911 is at it's best in condition 1. I think that even if worn in a flap holster, the potential for grit and grime to get into the action is much higher when worn this way, especially in places like Iraq. So after training all the time in condition 1, would you keep it that way in the desert boonies? Would you carry Condition 3 only in that situation? If so, wouldn't this screw up your training? Or would you just insist that everyone train drawing from condition 3 from the getgo?

I personally think that the 9mm is the best cartridge "para bellum" for many reasons. The platforms I would be perfectly fine with in no particular order...

USPc
SIG P228
G19.

If it came down to the nitty gritty, I would probably go with a Glock (with a plug for the space behind the magwell) because they are equally as effective as the others, but probably less expensive and more simple. May not be the 'highest quality' but they are certainly 'good enough.' If a manual safety is required, USPc. If, as someone mentioned, it either has to be hammer fired or striker w/safety I think SIG would be the way to go.


Also... I think a pistol is an absolute necessity. Sometimes the primary CAN go down (sometimes with unfortunate frequency) and it might be a little trickier to fix than eject magazine --> cycle action --> insert fresh magazine. Other points made re: CQB usage underscore the need.

FWIW I think I voted for the XD9 because it seemed like a fun choice.

 

[Leibster]

I voted Springfield XD9. I've had two of them so far, with over 10,000 rounds in one, and over 14,000 rounds in the other, with no reliablity problems.

Its trigger is very crisp, its grip angle is identical to a 1911, and in general, it is a very easy gun with which to hit one's target. It's high capacity (17 rounds), light weight and tough as hell.

Adding to it's soldier friendliness would be its grip safety, loaded chamber indicator, and cocked indicator.

My two cents.

--Leibster

 

[tsenn]

They already have it to a certain degree. I think the SIG P228 would be the best choice. Compact like it should be and reliable.

 

[clubsoda22]

quote: Something that no one's mentioned yet is that the DOD won't approve a sidearm without an external safety, which eliminates the Glock from the start.

Yeah, like someone else said, no external hammer or striker indicator either. This is why I voted for the SA XD. 2 user operated safeties as opposed to 1 on the glock and a visual and felt loaded chamber and striker position indicator. Also, it's accuracy I found to be on par if not better than the glocks. There will also be a .45 version available soon. Lack of a "click on" safety is completely irrelevent as you are supposed to carry in condition 3 in the armed forces anyway (doubt that happens often though)

 

[Dorian]

Just as a question....

I chose fullsize USP .45 for very practical and logical reasons.(to me at least)

Why would you want a 1911 over a USP .45 when you can get many of the features OF a 1911 on the USP.... and some

You CAN carry the USP cocked and locked(for the 1911 guys)

You CAN carry the USP in double action mode without the saftey on(how I carry daily)

The USP is built on the MK23 platform, and it hasn't been preforming for 90+ years, but it's nearing 10 years. And I've never heard gripes on the USP any bettter or worse than any other pistol. And in fact, it is, in my experience, the most reliable pistol on the market.

One of my final and main decisions is this.... You get five more rounds of .45 in the USP. I think that is a VERY valuable part of the USP.

All that said... It should be obvious that I love my USPs I love my 1911s as well and have the utmost amount of respect for them. But that 5 extra rounds combined with a postol that is just as, if not more, reliable is so much more.... well logical to me.

I do want feedback on this. I didn't post this to knock on the 1911. But I want to hear why you guys would choose the 1911 over the USP.

I've posted my part, now you post yours so that I can debate in favor of mine! Or maybe you might just convince me that your part is reasonable and acceptable.(Yes I'm actually open minded!)

/exhale

 

[BenW]

I think its unfortunate that so many 1911 fanatics chose to vote when the poll was specifically aimed towards a 9mm pistol. He even went the extra mile and requested that this not be done...obviously many intentionally ignored that request.

Either that or posted before that request was made via an edit. I like 1911s. So sue me. There must be something to the design if so many people are getting defensive that it's mentioned. People need to take a deep breath -- a month from now this poll will be completely forgotten.

 

[444]

I don't dispute anything you say. BUT, to me, the American military should be supplied with equipment and weapons designed and built by Americans. And I am not talking about just building a plant here. I am talking about an American company. Our military budget is huge. I think that money should be spent with American companies, employing American workers.

 

[Ian11]

BenW,

I made the edit right after the first response (see dates and times) and people still continued to "write-in" the 1911 invariably in .45 ACP.

If there was another poll like this and the choices had to be in .45 ACP; it'd be like people trying to force their 9mm, .40, .357 SIG, or 10mm into the discussion. From the selections in this poll and my admonition (nay, I was pleading) wasn't it obvious this was a contest between 9mm pistols? And my reactions weren't "defensive". I was merely trying to defend the integrity of this poll.

Will this poll be soon forgotten? You bet. But this lack of communication and the forcing of opinions on others is something we constantly see on THR.

 

[seeker_two]

Ruger or SIG...

As long as it's in DAO...

 

[BenW]

And my reactions weren't "defensive". I was merely trying to defend the integrity of this poll.

Ian -- My "defensive" remark was not aimed at you. You clarified your poll in the edit and that's what edits are for. You could change the direction of the whole darn poll if you wanted, since you're the one who started it. My comments were aimed at words like "disgusting" and "fanatics" being tossed about.

FWIW, If I created a poll aimed at .45s and people threw their opinions about other calibers in, I wouldn't care. It's their opinion and maybe they just don't like .45s.

 

[krept]

Anyone know of ballistics involving .45 vs 9mm FMJs? I thought they were pretty close to each other.

I thought they were close to each other as well... but that the .45 does not have a much penetration as the 9mm FMJ.

I do want feedback on this. I didn't post this to knock on the 1911. But I want to hear why you guys would choose the 1911 over the USP

Dorian... I might be qualified to answer because I grew up with my father's 1911A1, ended up buying a USP and am thinking about going back to the 1911. (caveat - these are my OPINIONS only)

First off, I think the 'correct' way to fire a pistol that has a manual safety lever like the 1911 and USP is with a high thumbs grip. Not only will this ensure the safety is disengaged, but it will keep your grip nice and high so as to minimize muzzle flip. The 'hump' above the backstrap on the USP hinders the high grip, in my opinion.

Secondly, the double stack magazine is a monster girth-wise. I can barely reach the trigger in DA to get a solid grip - it's really close and I have a fairly large hand. Needless to say, it does not fit my wife and some of my friend's hands either... so it probably wouldn't be a good choice for the average soldier. When you factor the grip width into the equasion with the aforementioned high thumbs grip the pistol gets a little clumsy for me. On a 1911, you can slimline it to fit smaller hands.

Thirdly, might not be a big deal in 'war' but the reset of the USP trigger is a big turd. A month ago I rented a G30 and a stock 1911 to shoot side by side with my USP. All had relatively the same accurace @ 10 yards, but I actually short stroked the trigger of the USP a couple times because it was so long. After doing this, I found I was actually completely removing my finger off of the trigger to ensure it reset properly.

Fourth, I think that the Variant 1 on the USP is too complicated for the 'average soldier.' Is it decocked and the safety on? Or is the safety off? Maybe if they refined the variant to either having a decocker ala SIG or safety-only like the 1911 (but able to fire in DA) I think it would be better. Plus, if you accidentally ride the safety a little into the decocker function, some have said that the weapon will not fire.

I could equally sing praises about the USP and it's fine points but I think it has been covered a lot before (notice I picked the USPc as a finalist above and not a 1911).

What does all this mean?

I personally think that the 1911 is a weapon meant for an expert and should not be issued to the average soldier, much like M16s are issued to troops instead of the SAWs. I also think carrying in condition 3 is a detraction from the 1911...

I'm thinking that many of the people that chose the 1911 selected them because they are proficient with them and know how effective a CQB weapon they are. But I also wonder... didn't the military's qualification scores increase with the adoption of the 9mm? It's pretty difficult to argue with that...

And I believe that apples to apples (fmj vs fmj) the 9mm is close enough in terms of "stopping power" to the .45. Enough so that when the higher capacity/lower recoil of the 9mm is factored in I think it makes a great choice for an army.

Now, my preference is .45, but if I had to consider new shooters with smaller wrists, I don't think I'd mind a 9mm.

for what it's worth...

cheers

 

[Dorian]

ended up buying a USP and am thinking about going back to the 1911

I'll be glad to take the USP off your hands if you decide to go back to the 1911

You made some very good points, I think.

I haven't shot the beretta in a long while, but isn't it a decocker/saftey too?

And what about the USP size as compared to the beretta instead of the 1911?

OHH LOOK AT ME I GOT OFF MY OWN TOPIC! I was supposed to be comparing the USP to the 1911, NOT the Beretta!

Ok I give in you guys win!

*sobs*