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Zak's RM3GM report

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Zak Smith, Aug 25, 2003.

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  1. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,043
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO, USA.
    This is Zak's first person account of the 2003 Rocky Mountain 3Gun Match.

    The RM3GM took place at the NRA Whittington Center near Raton, NM. The Whittington Center is on land sold to the NRA by some large mining/steel company in the 1970's. The 31,000 acres that makes up the W.C. includes a canyon that was mined for coal starting in 1902, and surrounding area. The mining was "tunnel mining" so the geography was not disturbed. There are many old crumbling buildings and foundations scattered about that originally made up the mining town.

    The place is HUGE. Basically, all the land you can see in all directions is part of the W.C. There are probably about 10-20 "formal" ranges (including 1000 yard, high power silhouette, smallbore, sight-in, etc), 20-30 trap/skeet ranges, and then many many small informal "IPSC"-type berms. And *then* the rest of the land is available for shooting use in these types of events, as long as the backstop is safe -- and the geography ensures that. This location allows all sorts of 3D stage design and lots of "field" in the field courses. The advertisements for this match said, "expect courses of fire to be interrupted by bear and elk" and they weren't kidding. We saw a bear ambling around both Friday and Saturday.

    Raton, NM is approximate 4:15 from Fort Collins.

    I arrived on Thursday around 3pm and checked in. Then I proceeded to examine the stages -- Eric Miller said we should do that since the stage descriptions weren't back from the printer yet. Some stages were also still being worked on. The general outline is: 8 stages, four Friday, four Sunday. I spent the next four hours examining the stages and getting preliminary plans in place.

    I retired to the Colt Motel in Raton, which was only about $50/night.

    The shooters meeting was 8AM on Friday. There were introductions and thanks to our match sponsors and Robbie Roberts who is the head honcho of the W.C.

    I was on Squad 6, starting at stage 6. Squads were 12 people. Some other people who were in my squad: David K (and two other Daves), Benny Hill, George Murphy, Darrel Humphreys, Eric M (the Trijicon rep), and a couple other really fast guys. It was Eric's first 3gun match, though he retired from the Marine Corps after 20 years (he looks about 35) before working for Trijicon. He said he used to just show up and "be available" for people to talk to, but it was more fun to shoot the matches.

    Stage 6. "Pitch Black". Shotgun. You start in a ravine, at the entrance to an artificial cave. Upon the start signal, you engage two poppers at about 30-40 yards with slugs. Then you grab a flashlight (it was the "SureFire" stage) and enter the artificial cave. It's dark and small. You locate and shoot four clays. Then you exit the cave and climb out of the ravine. There are four clays along the right hand side down the little valley. There are three plates on the left-hand side at about 25 yards, and then two more plates on the right, and then two more on the far left. Finally, after proceeding about 30y down a path shooting those targest, you get to the end, where you shoot four silhouette plates over a hill and the two plates "hidden" on the far right. A total of 22 shotshells and 2 slugs.

    I shot this stage fairly well, but a bit slow in 83.35 seconds. I fumbled a bit with the flashlight while shooting in the cave, and had to re-shoot one clay inside the cave a few times because it wasn't disintegrating.

    Stage 7. "Sarajevo Point Blank." Rifle. In this stage, you ran through the foundation of an old building (real! concrete and all) and engage a whole bunch of paper targets and one steel. You start in a "basement" kneeling, on the buzzer, you engage the two targets at the top of the pit. Then you run up out of the pit to the left (still within the walls of the old buiding!) and basically engage paper as they become visible. When you get to the far left-hand side of the building (about 30 yards), you engage the final paper through an old window and then shoot a stop plate at 130 yards. I had a good plan for this stage. I shot the two first (you had to), then ran out of the pit. Then I engaged the four visible targets from 20-40 yards in about a 70 degree arc. Then I ran the entire 20yards to the entrance to the last room and did a mag change along the way. I turned around and shot the three now-visible targets. Upon entering the last room, one was shot point-blank (2 yards) and then I finished up at the port. The TA11 ACOG worked wonderfully on this stage and I got a pretty fast time of 48.50 seconds. The trick was having a good plan, shooting to it, and not re-shooting targets: your plan has to only shoot each twice. This was a total of 15 paper targets and one plate, for 31 rounds.

    Stage 8. "Alien Bug Hunt." Shotgun and pistol. This stage was a path along a riverbed which had 10 clays hidden, and 8 plates, some hidden. It finished up with 11 paper targets. Upon the start, you engaged a steel and the ran up a small hill and ducked under a 2' tall obstacle, and then finished shooting the stage, My run was decent, though I ran my shotgun dry one shot too soon, and lost a few seconds on a load. My pistol run went well, but I got out of sequence due to
    a fumbled mag change. time: 76.75 seconds.

    Stage 1. "Fossil Canyon." Shotgun. This was the mother of all shotgun stages. You start off with two 50? yard slug shots. Then you engage five silhouette steel on the way to a wall with four ports in it. Beyond the wall at 10 yards is an array of 12 "shoot" steels and five "no shoot" steel which block some of the shoot targets from different angles. Each no-shoot popper was a 10-second penalty if you made it fall. This was actually not that tough, but you did have to reload. Finally, you finished up my running up a canyon and locating and shooting 10 clays. Lots of shooting and reloading. My time was 98.76.

    Saturday:

    Stage 2. "Flare Out." all 3 weapons. You shoot this stage from the inside of a very small helicopter. On each side was: 1 rifle plate at 120 yards, 8 paper targets, and 5 steel. (so double that for the other side) The rifle plates at 120y had to be hit with the rifle. The rest of the steel with shotgun, and the paper with rifle or pistol. Rifle was limited to 20 rounds. This one was challenging
    because of the choice of "what targets to shoot with which gun." The rules for this match specify that a single "A" hit or two B/C/D hits "neutralizes" a target, otherwise you get a penalty. So I went for the strategy of:
    1. shooting one far plate,
    2. shoot the paper on that side with one shot per, with rifle,
    3/4. repeat for other side.
    5. pull shotgun and shoot one side, load 3/4 and then shoot the other side.

    This was an okay plan but I took too much time aiming to get the "A" hits. I got them all except I had one "C" which added 5 seconds to my time.

    A better strategy would have been to shoot both steel, then double-tap one side's paper with the rifle at warp speed, then pull the shotgun on that side, then switch, then finally pull pistol and blast the remaining paper on the other side. Oh well. My time was 89.36

    Stage 3. "Over Run." Handgun & Rifle. This stage was shot from two positions: SA1 and SA2. From SA1, you could see 5 close unobstructed paper targets, and five "further" and covered-by-hard-cover paper targets. Then you run to SA2 and you see a similar scenario. You are limited to 20 rifle rounds. You start at the bottom of a pit with your two weapons and a 10lb ammo box. On buzzer, you run up the 15' or so with the box, set it down in the bunker, and engage the targets. Then take the box to SA1 and repeat. I did the obvious solution of shooting the hard shots with the rifle and the close with the pistol. This was good because I got all very precise rifle shots and I could blast with the pistol. The Tac-sling for the AR came in useful. My time was 66.

    At this point, it was lunchtime. I had a Cliff bar and headed over to Alan Samuel's machine-gun area. I rented a 16" M16, an MP5, an AK47, and I shot a 50-round belt through a German MG3. Rockin'.

    Stage 4. "Afghanistan Hills." Rifle. This was the long-range rifle stage with 17 shots at plates from 200-310 yards. You ran a total of about 30 yards up a hill, and shot from defined positions (over the boulder, etc). I screwed up this stage by getting 3 misses and having a long time (218 seconds + penalties). The RO mentioned that he noticed my shots were all high and my muzzle was real close to the boulder in front and he thought maybe the blast was deflecting them up, because from other positions I had no problems on those same plates. Oh well. I also didn't practice at 300 yards, so...

    Stage 5. "The Deer Hunter." Handgun and RM3G supplied rifle. In this stage, you start in a tiger cage with no weapon, no holsters, no nothing, during the "war of your choice." Upon the start signal, you push open the metal mesh wall, forward two steps, grab a crow bar, and smash the "guard's skull" (5 clay pigeons in a stack - failure to break all five results in penalties). Then you pick up "his" AK-47, and engage two close paper targets with the five loaded rounds. Then you drop the AK, and run forward about 5 yards and pick up your pistol which is at slide-lock on an empty mag. You pick up your mags and stick them in your pocked. Load pistol and engage four small plates at 15 yards. Then you basically run up this high and long hill engaging 13 paper targets and one stop plate at 15 yards as they become visible. I had a pretty good time at 60.69 seconds.

    Team shoot on Sunday: A stage was set up for the team shoot on the long-range rifle stage. Each team was 3 people, one for each gun. I shot with Glenn Frank and George Murhpy. The pistol guy started on the LHS of a large boulder. Upon the buzzer, he engages 7 plates. Two of the plates were in the rear hidden behind the first set. When he's done, he safes his pistol and throws it down in a box. Then he runs 2 steps and picks up an ammo can and then taps the rifle shooter on the leg. The rifle shooter engages a 200y and a 255y plate. Once the second hit is made, the shotgun shooter who is about 15 yards up the hill starts shooting his array of 8 or 9 plates. Meanwhile, the pistol shooter is running up the hill with the can. Inside the can are one or more shotgun slugs. When the shotgun shooter is done with the plates, he gets one slug from the box carried by the pistol shooter and engages the 40y stop plate with it. We did it in 41 seconds. The best was like 23 seconds.

    I am pretty pleased with my entire performance with the exception of Stage 4. I don't suck that bad at long-range rifle shooting.

    After everything, when the scores came in, I was 35th out of 75 in the "tactical" class: in the top 50% makes me happy.

    These big matches have prize tables. The prize table at this match contained $27500 worth of stuff.. including like 7 guns or something. I ended up with another Surefire flashlight (G2-OD), a holster for it, and 12 batteries. Not bad.

    It was really impressive to see some of the best 3Gun shooters at this match.. and generally all my times were less than double their times.

    With the possibilities at the W.C., this is going to become THE premier 3Gun event.

    I also got to fondle a bunch of equipment. JP was the big match sponsor and had many of their rifles there. I am definitely going to buy one of these soon.



    Pictures will be coming in a day or two.

    -z
     
  2. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,043
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO, USA.
    Here's the gear I used:

    Pistol: Dan Wesson Patriot Expert (single-stack 1911 .45ACP), with Simonich Gunner Grips and a rear adjustable sight slathered in "removable" lock-tite for a "fixed adjustable" sight. I used five 10-round Wilson mags and a couple 8-round mags. Holster was Milt Sparks NP-1 and mag pouches were from 3GunGear.com. Shot reloads at about 165 PF.

    Shotgun: Benelli M1S90 with straight stock and ghost rings. Shot mainly Winchester #7.5 1 1/8oz loads (AA127), and reduced recoil Federal slugs. Shell carriers were from 3GunGear and I used a cheap shell belt I got from the local sportsmanwarehouse.

    Rifle: special-build Rock River 16" flat-top, 1-in-9 twist, bull barrel to rear of gas block, HBAR to muzzle. Armalite mid-length fiberglass float tube. TA11 ACOG on an ARMS #19S mounted as far forward as it'll go. The TA11 with the BAC is most excellent on anything from about 20 yards out. Closer than that, it's a little slow unless you use it as an OEG. JP has a forward-mounted iron sight rail that can be used on an "Tactical" class AR for close range hosing. Viking Tactics V-Tac sling came in useful on stage 3. I shot Black Hills 68gr (2650fps) at this match. I used a double-AR mag pouch from 3GunGear and his drop-thigh rig on stage 7.

    The changes I'll make to my gear for next year: get a real high-cap "Limited" pistol; get an CTR-02 built by JP.

    -z
     
  3. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    10,648
    Location:
    SLC
    Excellent review. Sounds like it was a really good match. I have not been to Raton yet.

    What were the match fees? This sounds like one I might try to make next year.
     
  4. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    9,043
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO, USA.
    Correia,

    The entry fee was $200. T-shirts were $20/each. For the optional team shoot, the entry fee was $20/person. The team shoot was like 70% payout to winners. To enter the subgun/assault rifle side-match was $10: 10 shots with an MP5 at poppers and then I think 5 or 10 with an AK at plates-- fastest time takes the cash. (He also rented them for $20 per assault rifle mag, or $15 per subgun mag with discounts for multiple mags; 50 round belt for $30.)

    This match was pretty "vacation time friendly"- if you live within 8 or so hours, you only needed to take off Friday. I took Thursday and Friday off. Competitors were on the road by 2pm on Sunday. Compare that to the WC3Gun which you need to take basically the entire week off.

    I forgot to mention that there were over 100 shooters- I thought I heard around 120. Nominally 12 per squad, plus RO's, etc. The RO's were excellent. I saw plates from CA, TX, CO, NM, AZ, and one guy was back from Switzerland.

    This match had excellent stage design (designed by shooters with no "gimmicks"), lots of runnin'and'gunnin, and a great location.

    -z
     
  5. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,468
    Location:
    Bakersfield, California
    how many shooters were there, was it a cattle drive, did you think the stages helped you determine skills you needed to work on, were there real rifle length shots, would you go back next year, was there an awards banquet?
     
  6. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,043
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO, USA.
    They finally posted the results on the web:
    Code:
        2003 ROCKY MOUNTAIN 3 GUN MATCH TOTAL                                                                                 
    
    PLC NAME                 CATEGORY RIFLE    S1    S2     S3     S4     S5     S6     S7     S8     TOTAL 
      1 "NEAL, KELLY"        HE-MAN   IRON   100.00  86.20 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00  82.65  768.85 
      2 "RHODES, EDDIE"      HE-MAN   IRON    85.74  98.60  70.44  80.83  93.20  87.71  67.30 100.00  683.82 
      3 "LATHAM, TAYLOR"     HE-MAN   IRON    75.08  76.39  72.79  54.59  82.03  71.07  62.12  88.74  582.81 
      4 "DOWD, MIKE"         HE-MAN   IRON    82.26 100.00  62.01  55.31  56.91  75.24  63.62  82.19  577.55 
      5 "HORSEMAN, STEVE"    HE-MAN   IRON    61.64  57.15  39.07  57.09  91.18  54.52  68.45  75.22  504.32 
      6 "KYNOCH, DAVE"       HE-MAN   IRON    77.22  60.81  67.02  50.36  67.26  65.12  55.71  59.70  503.19 
      7 "KOCHAN, JOHN"       HE-MAN   IRON    61.76  36.60  55.86  32.79  63.76  57.30  52.99  68.93  429.99 
      8 "HAMEL, BOB (SCORE)" HE-MAN   IRON    55.10  74.91  39.61  45.39  66.92  62.43  44.61  29.86  418.83 
      9 "HARRIS, JOHN"       HE-MAN   IRON    56.16  57.56  51.97  27.51  55.81  52.13  38.80  67.72  407.66 
     10 "HILL, MIKE"         HE-MAN   IRON    42.32  53.11  52.41  45.16  45.01  43.71  48.89  49.94  380.55 
     11 "MERTES, DAVID"      HE-MAN   IRON    48.17  48.90  34.56  35.20  44.55  54.53  36.80  63.63  366.34 
     12 "BERRY, BRIAN"       HE-MAN   IRON    44.81  68.50  36.02  41.82  41.53  45.35  35.33  48.76  362.12 
     13 "GUTHRIE, HOWARD"    HE-MAN   IRON    44.96  52.51  39.21  43.82  54.63  34.67  40.94  43.05  353.79 
     14 "HOBBS, JEFF"        HE-MAN   IRON    47.97  52.63  38.25  39.92  39.76  39.56  46.71  44.55  349.34 
     15 "KUHN, MELL"         HE-MAN   IRON    46.68  34.12  32.04  33.24  75.48  35.74  49.63  40.23  347.17 
     16 "HALL, PALMER"       HE-MAN   IRON    48.86  39.12  39.41  34.19  52.11  23.41  43.25  52.25  332.61 
     17 "RYCKMAN, BOB"       HE-MAN   IRON    72.09  64.12  38.36  29.19  12.87  12.09   9.95  52.34  291.01 
     18 "KING, DAVID"        HE-MAN   IRON    29.37  40.86  37.36  29.92  37.60  34.11  42.28  26.40  277.89 
    
      1 "RAGULSKY, GENE"     OPEN     SCOPE   67.49 100.00 100.00 100.00  77.43  97.05  91.72  88.02  721.71 
      2 "BEDNORZ, DON"       OPEN     SCOPE   74.87  56.02  98.76  65.12 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00  694.76 
      3 "KEMPTON, JAKE"      OPEN     SCOPE  100.00  87.70  83.58  73.81  89.90  95.45  85.04  76.86  692.35 
      4 "WALTER-FILHO, RON"  OPEN     SCOPE   73.46  87.34  80.85  63.48  99.66  99.89  94.31  68.60  667.60 
      5 "CARLSON, ADAM"      OPEN     SCOPE   86.61  89.79  79.92  69.58  61.60  89.74  86.48  74.48  638.20 
      6 "ENDERSBY, CHRIS"    OPEN     SCOPE   69.55  82.58  63.48  56.43  82.66  82.45  90.88  77.84  605.88 
      7 "ARREDONDO, RALPH"   OPEN     SCOPE   66.26  81.16  64.56  56.35  79.03  73.16  72.68  85.77  578.96 
      8 "KRUSE, RUSSELL"     OPEN     SCOPE   49.17  89.55  53.93  59.29  71.86  65.02  87.77  84.11  560.70 
      9 "MOODY, DAVID"       OPEN     SCOPE   69.63  64.53  55.75  60.23  70.66  77.33  73.89  55.68  527.69 
     10 "MOSIER, DAVE"       OPEN     SCOPE   60.72  69.89  44.58  85.87  74.25  77.06  24.56  69.24  506.18 
     11 "STUTZ, GREG"        OPEN     SCOPE   51.07  76.58  51.25  55.41  69.68  47.76  84.56  51.14  487.44 
     12 "STUTZ, ALEX"        OPEN     SCOPE   44.41  57.14  53.19  37.30  67.23  51.54  85.62  53.91  450.34 
     13 "ANDERSON, WYNN"     OPEN     SCOPE   55.59  60.16  29.92  48.21  53.19  64.40  55.67  52.75  419.89 
     14 "LINDER, GEOFFREY"   OPEN     SCOPE   44.04  46.08  49.87  63.34  59.47  48.09  62.04  44.47  417.40 
     15 "MURPHY, GEORGE"     OPEN     SCOPE   39.41  46.92  44.53  41.70  58.26  35.64  43.37  44.02  353.85 
     16 "BIELBY, JEFFREY"    OPEN     SCOPE   49.10  51.65  37.15  26.95  29.54  59.42  37.96  54.27  346.04 
     17 "SABIA, DAVE"        OPEN     SCOPE   41.72  46.47  34.56  42.80  38.12  43.10  47.67  47.50  341.93 
     18 "BACA, TONY"         OPEN     SCOPE   31.50  37.11  30.26  39.77  56.67  38.37  42.79  57.13  333.61 
     19 "WODACK, GREG"       OPEN     SCOPE   39.77  75.28  58.93  36.66  26.08  11.18   9.65  67.58  325.13 
     20 "FRANK, GLENN"       OPEN     SCOPE   29.07  30.04  47.41  33.94  41.82  36.84  51.80  37.00  307.92 
     21 "MAHONEY, JONI"      OPEN     SCOPE   25.14  38.12  26.09  30.55  38.16  32.92  27.30  34.45  252.71 
    
      1 "BUTLER, TARAN"      TACTICAL SCOPE   86.68 100.00 100.00  69.74 100.00 100.00 100.00 100.00  756.43 
      2 "SALMON, TODD"       TACTICAL IRON    81.99  92.55  86.83 100.00  77.48  83.46 100.00  70.53  692.85 
      3 "HAWKINS, GUY"       TACTICAL IRON    76.93 100.00 100.00  76.39  79.20  76.12  94.03  75.25  677.93 
      4 "HILL, BENNY"        TACTICAL SCOPE   77.70  84.43  97.52  92.15  79.02  72.15  80.26  92.57  675.80 
      5 "NETH, DAVE"         TACTICAL SCOPE   87.95  81.12  89.32  68.98  78.79  76.61  85.27  85.95  654.00 
      6 "WONG, JOE"          TACTICAL IRON    76.42  69.83  76.30  90.26  64.66  68.27  87.82  73.86  607.41 
      7 "PULTZ, BOB"         TACTICAL IRON    71.62  74.78  63.24  84.88  68.83  57.22  92.41  67.79  580.77 
      8 "MOOTS, CHARLES"     TACTICAL SCOPE   65.55  81.23  81.07  69.26  69.57  71.52  75.70  64.70  578.61 
      9 "MAHONEY, CHARLES"   TACTICAL SCOPE   63.57  51.13  95.82  78.73  72.18  65.21  75.69  73.54  575.87 
     10 "HARRIS, MIKE"       TACTICAL SCOPE  100.00  70.95  96.04  59.25  69.42  61.70  32.82  77.77  567.94 
     11 "GANGL, JOHN"        TACTICAL SCOPE   74.55  76.69  95.98  55.80  57.08  66.35  66.20  70.29  562.95 
     12 "KELLEY, PAT"        TACTICAL SCOPE   58.93  78.56  95.00  54.89  73.41  54.97  79.38  66.76  561.91 
     13 "FIELD, MIKE"        TACTICAL SCOPE   61.11  66.36  86.93  81.35  70.99  65.69  68.78  59.62  560.82 
     14 "HAWKINS, GARRET"    TACTICAL SCOPE   59.76  64.17  88.71  88.82  69.15  58.44  70.06  56.50  555.62 
     15 "PIERCE, CHAD"       TACTICAL SCOPE   62.30  62.56  72.50 100.00  66.79  52.03  72.71  63.61  552.50 
     16 "HUGHES, MIKE"       TACTICAL SCOPE   53.68  75.95  78.31  79.88  60.80  61.74  70.08  61.21  541.67 
     17 "HULET, STEVE"       TACTICAL SCOPE   63.69  66.72  65.63  63.86  79.61  69.35  66.43  65.25  540.55 
     18 "CURRENT, ROD"       TACTICAL SCOPE   56.98  62.36  69.16  67.68  69.00  69.46  80.33  59.21  534.19 
     19 "HECKART, ALLEN"     TACTICAL SCOPE   76.35  56.94  74.62  80.89  55.55  60.04  62.00  67.17  533.56 
     20 KOLAR. MIKE          TACTICAL SCOPE   55.15  68.78  76.98  82.75  67.46  51.76  66.27  57.40  526.55 
     21 "BODMER, JEFF"       TACTICAL SCOPE   73.58  52.54  74.33  65.93  56.07  65.89  66.75  70.99  526.08 
     22 "BALMORES, KELLY"    TACTICAL IRON    67.52  79.54  70.29  45.50  76.04  44.60  74.85  63.09  521.44 
     23 "CAUDILL, PAUL"      TACTICAL SCOPE   61.01  59.27  57.78  60.93  70.35  67.11  78.52  63.43  518.41 
     24 "WONG, TOMMY"        TACTICAL SCOPE   59.59  72.79  76.86  54.28  65.28  55.48  58.56  63.25  506.10 
     25 "BYROM, BILL"        TACTICAL SCOPE   49.85  63.10  83.44  39.99  67.32  53.25  61.91  71.64  490.49 
     26 "CAMBRE, LOUIS"      TACTICAL SCOPE   64.43  66.91  68.97  66.06  58.48  41.71  59.65  53.53  479.74 
     27 "LANE, RICK"         TACTICAL SCOPE   59.39  70.23  69.66  63.36  51.82  44.31  59.06  60.15  477.97 
     28 "MARTIN, ROD"        TACTICAL SCOPE   69.40  44.86  66.66  65.42  56.00  67.49  44.50  60.97  475.29 
     29 "MOWERY, GARY"       TACTICAL SCOPE   58.07  66.54  76.96  38.53  58.42  51.06  59.81  64.64  474.03 
     30 "TOLLES, KEITH"      TACTICAL SCOPE   59.50  64.97  58.44  53.74  64.89  63.64  57.18  49.89  472.24 
     31 "POWELL, DAVID"      TACTICAL SCOPE   56.17  46.75  82.76  64.94  46.49  52.26  56.72  65.08  471.18 
     32 "DANG, HUNG"         TACTICAL SCOPE   46.30  53.50  68.10  71.05  67.76  47.48  63.41  47.68  465.27 
     33 "SAMUEL, ALAN"       TACTICAL SCOPE   35.33  60.45  66.06  61.81  75.34  43.09  62.89  58.70  463.67 
     34 "RUBEL, T.H."        TACTICAL IRON    59.21  54.55  62.89  59.16  53.16  44.48  69.85  55.14  458.43 
     35 "SMITH, ZAK"         TACTICAL SCOPE   59.06  52.92  78.58  40.31  58.10  52.37  62.64  53.09  457.07 
     36 "WILLS, RANDY"       TACTICAL IRON    59.51  43.02  60.19  57.03  51.95  48.31  74.87  62.19  457.07 
     37 "HUMPHRY, DARRELL"   TACTICAL IRON    58.58  56.41  55.93  73.07  51.51  50.44  63.38  47.01  456.31 
     38 "HAMEL, BOB (2ND)"   TACTICAL SCOPE   54.73  72.52  61.64  52.51  59.06  55.48  42.47  57.32  455.74 
     39 "JOHNSON, JJ"        TACTICAL IRON    53.57  58.77  59.57  47.85  58.78  56.50  72.63  44.05  451.72 
     40 "DOMINGUEZ, SALIM"   TACTICAL SCOPE   36.17  59.93  62.92  41.18  63.50  43.26  61.90  69.81  438.67 
     41 "BRANDT, DAVID"      TACTICAL SCOPE   55.95  53.93  76.96  52.68  45.64  50.35  52.52  48.78  436.80 
     42 "PRATT, RANDY"       TACTICAL SCOPE   36.55  49.07  71.49  79.78  48.18  42.46  52.83  47.47  427.85 
     43 "FERNS, GARY"        TACTICAL SCOPE   41.85  52.71  60.80  59.60  49.47  53.97  49.25  50.37  418.02 
     44 "GALLEGOS, RAY"      TACTICAL SCOPE   49.12  35.37  65.65  58.60  54.99  50.95  51.71  50.33  416.72 
     45 "HODGE, BOB"         TACTICAL SCOPE   44.67  52.19  70.30  62.16  57.68  40.87  47.00  40.35  415.22 
     46 "GULLEY, NICK"       TACTICAL SCOPE   50.79  64.60  70.48  44.12  51.04  43.61  44.69  44.63  413.95 
     47 "POOR, JIM"          TACTICAL IRON    42.06  43.09  52.64  37.81  66.01  33.71  66.32  56.21  397.84 
     48 "WHITE, FRED"        TACTICAL SCOPE   57.47  45.06  58.29  44.34  53.28  43.56  36.33  45.89  384.22 
     49 "HEAD, STEVE"        TACTICAL SCOPE   28.09  47.70  61.85  44.84  50.85  39.83  55.93  52.40  381.48 
     50 "CONKLING, DANIEL"   TACTICAL IRON    44.71  41.25  51.10  57.25  55.39  37.89  41.07  50.75  379.41 
     51 "CARLTON, VICKI"     TACTICAL SCOPE   55.24  56.71  60.50  29.84  33.92  48.00  42.47  51.65  378.33 
     52 "MONNIG, CURT"       TACTICAL SCOPE   57.07  13.87  55.62  67.23  32.05  42.71  61.69  47.70  377.94 
     53 "FULTINEER, MICHAEL" TACTICAL SCOPE   39.73  45.33  61.56  38.94  39.78  38.77  52.46  53.86  370.42 
     54 "MANSIR, DARREL"     TACTICAL SCOPE   40.85  40.54  50.11  52.34  42.24  43.13  49.02  49.08  367.30 
     55 "POINTER, GLENN"     TACTICAL IRON    47.50  47.08  52.40  46.48  52.38  39.94  38.41  42.99  367.17 
     56 "STANFORTH, DAMON"   TACTICAL SCOPE   49.67  59.46  58.37  44.65  40.47  42.13  37.27  33.60  365.62 
     57 "TOWNES, TIM"        TACTICAL SCOPE   38.85  37.48  50.78  45.35  47.77  40.23  48.78  42.85  352.10 
     58 "CURRENT, CHERYL"    TACTICAL SCOPE   44.13  55.21  38.52  48.22  37.58  25.22  43.35  42.51  334.74 
     59 "CULVER, DEAN"       TACTICAL SCOPE   40.18  42.52  47.85  34.47  40.69  38.51  44.52  41.11  329.86 
     60 "KNEALE, JOHN J."    TACTICAL SCOPE   48.20  35.75  41.58  32.25  42.65  36.99  44.89  43.10  325.42 
     61 "WHITE, STEVE"       TACTICAL IRON    39.24  44.83  46.64  30.43  39.08  41.77  38.98  34.11  315.09 
     62 "PEARMAN, DENISE"    TACTICAL SCOPE   28.80  39.70  48.42  34.47  42.98  32.99  37.86  34.55  299.78 
     63 "REIGAN, ROBERT"     TACTICAL SCOPE   34.13  36.43  51.06  49.77  32.80  24.65  35.18  33.34  297.37 
     64 "LETSCH, DAVID"      TACTICAL IRON    39.28  45.61  26.48  38.39  43.71  26.71  43.83  31.49  295.52 
     65 "WASSOM, DON"        TACTICAL SCOPE   37.06  29.39  43.86  38.42  35.67  27.56  47.80  28.05  287.82 
     66 "FERNS, DEBBIE"      TACTICAL SCOPE   38.05  35.66  45.65  36.59  34.86  22.20  38.46  34.09  285.56 
     67 "MAYER, STEVE"       TACTICAL IRON    36.60  24.03  41.16  27.42  27.28  25.01  66.36  27.10  274.95 
     68 "GOGGIN, JOHN"       TACTICAL SCOPE   33.73  44.11  47.02  27.77  23.05  30.35  37.58  30.54  274.15 
     69 "GERLACH, GARY"      TACTICAL SCOPE   33.90  30.29  47.13  33.32  42.97  28.70  21.45  35.12  272.88 
     70 "PETRIE, CHRIS"      TACTICAL SCOPE   36.24  34.77  31.78  28.16  48.44  32.72  19.18  34.63  265.92 
     71 "PECK, KEVIN"        TACTICAL SCOPE   21.92  27.27  39.71  40.08  29.31  27.86  24.90  27.24  238.28 
     72 "ABRAMSON, ROBB"     TACTICAL IRON    27.03  30.22  28.31  36.16  34.97  25.03  24.62  29.87  236.22 
     73 "PORTER, JOHN"       TACTICAL SCOPE   26.73  18.64  40.04  23.25  30.55  25.38  19.84  24.91  209.34 
     74 "MAEDGEN, J.W."      TACTICAL SCOPE   12.41  10.86  28.81  25.97  19.59  10.39  16.88  22.64  147.54 
     75 "PAULSON, JEFF"      TACTICAL SCOPE   12.41  15.44  26.66  25.63  25.14  10.39  18.94  10.19  144.81 
                                                                                                         
    
     
  7. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Andrew wyatt,

    There were 114 shooters shooting for score. (The match directors and some ROs did not shoot for score.) 75 in Tactical (scope and iron), 21 in Open, and 18 in He-Man. There was only one match DQ and that was an RO.

    No.

    You mean, will help me figure out what to practice for next year?

    The "Afganistan Hills" stage had a bunch of plates from 200-310 yards. It was typical for other stages to have a stop plate at 100-150 yards.

    Definitely yes.

    No banquet, but the awards tables were stacked. I think Eric M. said there was a total of $27,500 worth of loot on them. Even at 35th place in "Tactical", I got about $60 worth of Surefire stuff. I think we all preferred getting out of there at 2pm Sunday -- the shooting didn't finish until about 11:30AM Sunday (team event).

    -z
     
  8. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I was thinking about the question about the stages. They were "about" the shooting and there were multiple ways to solve most of the problems -- that made it interesting. In this match, you need 1 "A" hit or two B/C/D hits to neutralize the target. This along with the combination of arms lead to many possibilities.

    -z
     
  9. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    Do you know if the match bought prizes with match money or had them all donated?


    I'm kinda interested in shooting in some of the other 3-gun matches sometime, and i'm curious about how they run things.
     
  10. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I believe the prizes were all donated, but I don't know for certain. The match fees were only $200/shooter, and $20 of that went to the NRA Whittington Center.

    -z
     
  11. another okie

    another okie Member

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    When was the match? Is there a web site that gives dates and information for future matches? I looked a while at the NRA site without success.
     
  12. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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  13. Helmut

    Helmut Member

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    The match was great, no doubt about it........It should be the premier match of the year. Staff and Ro's did a wonderful job. All the stages made you think to negotiate the coarse. NO standing in a box and hosing crap.

    Hats off guys and gals....

    Take Care
     
  14. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    How so?
     
  15. Helmut

    Helmut Member

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    where else will you find the nature terrain (including the old buildings to use) that is already set up, but at the whittington center.....you have acres, upon acres of terrain to setup stage designs........there is no other range in the nation that is as big as the whittington center........total acres of the nra center is 33,000

    besides that, these guys are very knowledgable about matches........the guys that put it on are the top shooters in the nation.....
     
  16. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    There are other places that have terrain as good or better, and things to do after the match. Ask the Miller boys what their favorite 3-gun match is sometime.
     
  17. Helmut

    Helmut Member

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    all the things i have stated are, of coarse, my own opinion. if you know better places and matches, let the rest of us know.......i personally like to shoot matches in alot of locations (and or states).

    Take Care
     
  18. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    No doubt, this was a good match.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2003
  19. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    There is the Swat 3-gun match coming up in late september which is totally devoid of square ranges, it's in laughlin, nevada, this year, and usually runs about 250 shooters. there are 7 individual stages, a team stage, and the match takes place over two days, with another day for the team shoot off and awards banquet. (www.swat3gun.com)

    there's also the superstition mountain 3-gun match, http://www.ultimateaccessories.com/smm3g/ which i've heard good things about.

    Mike Gibson Manufacturing also put on a 3-gun match not that long ago, and matt burkett did a report on it, but i can't seem to find it.


    It just seemed like you were calling the RM3gun match the premier 3-gun match because you hadn't heard of the others.


    I know the Miller boys put on the RM3gun match. Ask them what their favorite match is.
     
  20. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    This was my first big match... and I'm going to try to make several of the larger 3Gun matches next year, and if I can find a partner, the DL Sports Tactical Rifle Championships in Gilette, WY. Did anyone make that one? It was the same weekend as RM3G.

    I am curious to see what they think up for Raton next year.

    -z
     
  21. Helmut

    Helmut Member

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    a. wyatt,

    i have shot the SS3GM and the WC3gun matches you have mentioned, and i plan on the mgm match this next year, but i have had friends who have shot it and the North Carolina match......

    they are all good matches, but personally like the rm3gun the best, of course my opinion again......I know they are like ???????s and i have one.....haha

    good luck on your swat match.......

    take care and have a safe labor day weekend.....
     
  22. gl

    gl Member

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    Hey Andrew,

    How much is the match you mentioned in Laughlin that only has 7 stages?

    Guy Hawkins

    P.S. I assume you are an RO at that match. Do you have any info on how the 'range developement' is going? What kind of stages are going to be shot there? Thank you for your response!
     
  23. Helmut

    Helmut Member

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    zak,

    i looked at your scores and it looks like you did your best on stage 3........good job on scoring so well on your first match........keep at it man.....

    take care
     
  24. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Helmut,

    Thanks for the encouragement. Stage 7 ("Sarajevo Point Blank") felt like it was my best stage, but I guess stage 3 was better.

    On stage 3, I lost some time messing with the ammo box, transitioning to pistol and back (had to change mags before I re-holster it), and keeping the rifle hanging on the tac-sling from breaking the 180.

    -z
     
  25. Helmut

    Helmut Member

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    zak,

    i hear ya, i chose not to use a sling on stage 3, i don't know if it burned more time or not.......but it is all about learning i guess....

    i lucked out on stage 4 myself......that was the best one for me.....i think i had a damn failure on 6 of my 8 stages....but that is the way it goes...

    helmut
     
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