Based on the flawed reasoning of those against the so called Assault Weapons, I believe the first weapon of that general description was the 35 Remington which I shot back in the late 30's. The semi's we have now look differant but accomplish the same thing. Sure would like to fire one of those again. Has anyone seen one for sale lately?
Zumbo: Gun rag writer trashes "Assault Weapons"
- Thread starter blackhawk2000
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AStone
Member
I'm seeing a significant increase in the email volume to those addresses in the next few weeks...
And my name is (thankfully) not John Edward.
::note to Jim::
Here's a suggestion - when the idiots in the entertainment industry stick their heads up their butts and open their mouths, the first thing they do is duck and cover and go into rehab muttering crap like "I've got some issues I need to work on" and such in order to try and salvage their damaged careers.
Hey, might work for you? Give it a try.
Here's a suggestion - when the idiots in the entertainment industry stick their heads up their butts and open their mouths, the first thing they do is duck and cover and go into rehab muttering crap like "I've got some issues I need to work on" and such in order to try and salvage their damaged careers.
Hey, might work for you? Give it a try.
bill larry
Member
Guys, everything about this dude has already been said, he's obviously not on our side. Let's look at something else brought up here thats even more important.
I absolutely second the notion of using the term "HOMELAND DEFENSE RIFLE", and I will from now on only use this term when describing a AR, AK or other high cap semi-auto.
This is THE smartest thing that has been suggested on this board. It may sound a little stupid at first, but it will shove the "other" term the anti's love right back down their throats.
Lets change our terminology, people!! This is something we can easily do and will really monkey up their rhetoric.
I absolutely second the notion of using the term "HOMELAND DEFENSE RIFLE", and I will from now on only use this term when describing a AR, AK or other high cap semi-auto.
This is THE smartest thing that has been suggested on this board. It may sound a little stupid at first, but it will shove the "other" term the anti's love right back down their throats.
Lets change our terminology, people!! This is something we can easily do and will really monkey up their rhetoric.
bogie
Member
Okay. Remember the heavy media push to vote for Anyone But a Republican that you all went for on the last election.
THINK, people.
As for the term "homeland defense rifle" - well, they're probably going to label that as some sort of "militia" term...
We have to unite, and we have to choose our targets carefully right now. We can't just spray and pray, or sit at home because it's too wet or windy.
The guy literally tried to drive a wedge in the middle of gun owners. Does anyone know this man personally, know if he's held this opinion for a long time?
Hunters that don't think their 'sport' is in danger ought to listen to the Lapierre vs Peters debate from a few years ago, where she says her goal includes banning everything minus single shot rifles with a range of no more than 100 meters. Shotguns are also on their list.
Covered here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255904
Get that link to the hunting forums and see if they still feel like distant cousins.
jm
Hunters that don't think their 'sport' is in danger ought to listen to the Lapierre vs Peters debate from a few years ago, where she says her goal includes banning everything minus single shot rifles with a range of no more than 100 meters. Shotguns are also on their list.
Covered here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=255904
Get that link to the hunting forums and see if they still feel like distant cousins.
jm
Prince Yamato
Member
Assault Weapon is the common term. Use it, don't be ashamed of it. Don't get PC. Your weapon is designed to kill. That's what a gun's primary purpose is. Don't be ashamed to own one because of that. Changing the term implies you are guilty. It's like when importers used to put "SPORTING RIFLE" on AWs. Who the hell were they kidding? AKs aren't "sporting". You can use them FOR sport, but come on. The idea of "sporting" vs. non sporting is silly. I mean, we don't import Makita drills as "hobby drills". Some people go hiking with digital compasses, some use analog, and some look at tree moss. Is any one of these hikers less "sporting"?
Political correctness is silly. I personally like the term Assault Weapon. Don't play the anti's game. Machinegun, AW, hunting rifle, shotgun, handgun. They're all guns. You pull a trigger, they go bang. All guns are tools. All guns should be legal.
Political correctness is silly. I personally like the term Assault Weapon. Don't play the anti's game. Machinegun, AW, hunting rifle, shotgun, handgun. They're all guns. You pull a trigger, they go bang. All guns are tools. All guns should be legal.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Coherent?
Wow.
I knew when I saw this story early today that it would have legs on the gun boards. Then I caught the beginning of Gun Talk this morning on my way to the gun show (there's irony there somewhere) and knew that it had slipped its leash. I caught the tail end of Gun Talk, tried to dial in, lines were flat jammed.
I heard Tom's closing minutes with Jim. Heard Tom's closing remarks for the show. My tummy was all weird, and I was doing a * sigh * every couple of minutes. Couldn't organize my thoughts.
Got home, did some chores, fired up THR, and tried to catch up. Here we are, over 330 posts, and it doesn't look like everyone's done.
I can't promise to be coherent, but what the hell, this doesn't seem to be a day for coherent anyway . . .
I'm a big fan of redemption.
I'm upset enough right now that I don't see a clear path to any redemption for Jim. However, it's going to be necessary.
The only way out of this, for him, for us, for our future gun rights, is his redemption.
If he quits the business and becomes a drunk, then "the powerful gun lobby did it to him." If everybody that's paying him right now fires him and he winds up destitute, then that same "powerful gun lobby" will be to blame.
If he sees that he cannot achieve redemption or forgiveness, becomes despondent, and ends it all, then -- you guessed it -- he was driven to it by the savage attacks of the rabid evil owners of "terrorist" rifles.
The only way this ends well is for Jim to endure whatever purgatory he has embarked upon and reach the other side a changed man.
If he can't do that, either because he won't or because no one will invest any further trust in him, then we're all gonna be bruised in this one.
I have to give props to the resourcefulness of those members who found the appropriate pressure points, and who did so in very short order.
I have to give props to the guys who cared enough to make their voices heard.
I must, however, reprise an observation made earlier: if we could mobilize like this when it came time to kick ass and take names in the political venues, we'd be a force to be reckoned with.
I empathize with Tom. Here's a friend of his that he's known for decades who has fallen from grace by his own hand, and done it in such a way that it's really hard to go easy on him and still keep the respect of any observer.
I have an inkling of what Jim's going through now. I almost sank a ship once, with 50 other people on board. Not all of them understood my mistake, but all of them knew I couldn't be trusted. It was months before I finally earned back the trust and respect of my shipmates. During that time I cleaned a lot of bilges, swabbed a lot of decks, and found time to sling a lot of paint.
Jim's life has just become "interesting" in the Chinese curse sense of the word.
I don't know if he has the character or the strength to get through this. It's gonna hurt for a while.
But we need him to get through it.
We only win if he finds his redemption.
I hope he does.
Wow.
I knew when I saw this story early today that it would have legs on the gun boards. Then I caught the beginning of Gun Talk this morning on my way to the gun show (there's irony there somewhere) and knew that it had slipped its leash. I caught the tail end of Gun Talk, tried to dial in, lines were flat jammed.
I heard Tom's closing minutes with Jim. Heard Tom's closing remarks for the show. My tummy was all weird, and I was doing a * sigh * every couple of minutes. Couldn't organize my thoughts.
Got home, did some chores, fired up THR, and tried to catch up. Here we are, over 330 posts, and it doesn't look like everyone's done.
I can't promise to be coherent, but what the hell, this doesn't seem to be a day for coherent anyway . . .
I'm a big fan of redemption.
I'm upset enough right now that I don't see a clear path to any redemption for Jim. However, it's going to be necessary.
The only way out of this, for him, for us, for our future gun rights, is his redemption.
If he quits the business and becomes a drunk, then "the powerful gun lobby did it to him." If everybody that's paying him right now fires him and he winds up destitute, then that same "powerful gun lobby" will be to blame.
If he sees that he cannot achieve redemption or forgiveness, becomes despondent, and ends it all, then -- you guessed it -- he was driven to it by the savage attacks of the rabid evil owners of "terrorist" rifles.
The only way this ends well is for Jim to endure whatever purgatory he has embarked upon and reach the other side a changed man.
If he can't do that, either because he won't or because no one will invest any further trust in him, then we're all gonna be bruised in this one.
I have to give props to the resourcefulness of those members who found the appropriate pressure points, and who did so in very short order.
I have to give props to the guys who cared enough to make their voices heard.
I must, however, reprise an observation made earlier: if we could mobilize like this when it came time to kick ass and take names in the political venues, we'd be a force to be reckoned with.
I empathize with Tom. Here's a friend of his that he's known for decades who has fallen from grace by his own hand, and done it in such a way that it's really hard to go easy on him and still keep the respect of any observer.
I have an inkling of what Jim's going through now. I almost sank a ship once, with 50 other people on board. Not all of them understood my mistake, but all of them knew I couldn't be trusted. It was months before I finally earned back the trust and respect of my shipmates. During that time I cleaned a lot of bilges, swabbed a lot of decks, and found time to sling a lot of paint.
Jim's life has just become "interesting" in the Chinese curse sense of the word.
I don't know if he has the character or the strength to get through this. It's gonna hurt for a while.
But we need him to get through it.
We only win if he finds his redemption.
I hope he does.
bogie
Member
I don't think he was _trying_ to drive a wedge anywhere. I think he was tired, drunk and pissed off that people were using something other than bolt action rifles to shoot varmints with. Because _his_ thing is the blued steel and walnut bit.
We're the "gun culture." But we've all got "our things." I happen to like fiberglass or carbon fibre and stainless steel benchrest rifles. But I recognize that there's other stuff out there. I own some shotguns. I own some wood-or-composite-stocked bolt-action rifles. I own a lever gun. And a few things that reload themselves every time you yank on that trigger thingy.
I even own a few small and highly portable boomsticks.
But my main love is the accurate rifle.
But I've realized for a long time that if one part of our culture goes down, we all go down.
There are a LOT of hunters, casual plinkers, casual target shooters, and even police officers... okay... probably more police officers, because they generally don't shoot all that much... who think that a "hunting rifle" is a Winchester .30-30 or a Remington bolt action. And that's IT for them. They just cannot conceive of an AR-15-based rifle platform as being anything other than owned by the folks who Jack Bauer has to shoot. Because that's what they see on TV.
Heck, in Illinois, there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't mind seeing Winchester .30-30s and Remington .30-06s banned. Why? They don't get to shoot 'em anyway - deer season in Illinois is shotgun only. And if they can't hunt deer with it, they don't give a damn about it.
We're too damn fragmented.
We're the "gun culture." But we've all got "our things." I happen to like fiberglass or carbon fibre and stainless steel benchrest rifles. But I recognize that there's other stuff out there. I own some shotguns. I own some wood-or-composite-stocked bolt-action rifles. I own a lever gun. And a few things that reload themselves every time you yank on that trigger thingy.
I even own a few small and highly portable boomsticks.
But my main love is the accurate rifle.
But I've realized for a long time that if one part of our culture goes down, we all go down.
There are a LOT of hunters, casual plinkers, casual target shooters, and even police officers... okay... probably more police officers, because they generally don't shoot all that much... who think that a "hunting rifle" is a Winchester .30-30 or a Remington bolt action. And that's IT for them. They just cannot conceive of an AR-15-based rifle platform as being anything other than owned by the folks who Jack Bauer has to shoot. Because that's what they see on TV.
Heck, in Illinois, there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't mind seeing Winchester .30-30s and Remington .30-06s banned. Why? They don't get to shoot 'em anyway - deer season in Illinois is shotgun only. And if they can't hunt deer with it, they don't give a damn about it.
We're too damn fragmented.
AStone
Member
Jim?
Do you speak of Jim Bakker.
When they fall, they fall hard.
Sometimes, they get up and walk again.
Sometimes they don't.
Bigga bada boom.
Old Dog
Member
Now, this IS a thread!
We now see before us the best evidence ever offered as to why our movement is not much, much stronger ... There IS a divide -- as so many have already noted, Zumbo's opinion is probably shared by the majority of Americans who own firearms only for hunting deer, ducks, pheasant, geese or shooting a little skeet or trap at the local gun club ...
Alas, like so many others here, I'll never be able to read Zumbo or Outdoor Life again.
Sigh. "Terrorist rifles." This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.
But this thread sure demonstrates why THR is such a great vehicle for communicating ...
We now see before us the best evidence ever offered as to why our movement is not much, much stronger ... There IS a divide -- as so many have already noted, Zumbo's opinion is probably shared by the majority of Americans who own firearms only for hunting deer, ducks, pheasant, geese or shooting a little skeet or trap at the local gun club ...
Alas, like so many others here, I'll never be able to read Zumbo or Outdoor Life again.
Sigh. "Terrorist rifles." This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.
But this thread sure demonstrates why THR is such a great vehicle for communicating ...
bogie
Member
Guys, it's time for damage control - can we work this?
Think onit, and tomorrow, let's brainstorm. I gotta get some sleep, and my girlfriend has a doctors' appt (we're in our forties... and yeah, you religious guys would get all irritated with us...) in the morning, but I'll check back in.
The gun culture NEEDS coordinated activism that isn't just a buncha guys in suits running around in Washington and state office buildings....
Think onit, and tomorrow, let's brainstorm. I gotta get some sleep, and my girlfriend has a doctors' appt (we're in our forties... and yeah, you religious guys would get all irritated with us...) in the morning, but I'll check back in.
The gun culture NEEDS coordinated activism that isn't just a buncha guys in suits running around in Washington and state office buildings....
AStone
Member
Yeah, me, too.
Tomorrow.
There's always tomorrow...
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Tomorrow . . .
You guys get some sleep.
I'll stand watch.
It's my turn anyway.
You guys get some sleep.
I'll stand watch.
It's my turn anyway.
P. Plainsman
Member
One thing about this whole mess:
Between this Zumbo nonsense and the reintroduction of AWB, I've decided to adopt a personal moratorium on ragging on anyone's firearm for being "tacticool" or "mall ninja'ed", even in the fairly jokey way common around here.
Be as tactical as you like, folks. Keep buying those ARs [I've vowed to pick one up myself, and have already started stockpiling mags and ammo], AKs, Glocks, spare mags, Aimpoints, lasers, rail lights, etc., etc. There is strength in market share.
Buy a Barrett .50 BMG, if you've got the dough, live in a free state and have a place to shoot 'em.
Get more NFA stuff -- support another beleaguered gun subculture. [I find myself thinking, hmm, I should pitch in; my record's squeaky clean; there's no reason I couldn't get a local CLEO to sign off on a suppressor... ]
Or go retro and be as blued-steel and walnut as you like.
It's all good.
Between this Zumbo nonsense and the reintroduction of AWB, I've decided to adopt a personal moratorium on ragging on anyone's firearm for being "tacticool" or "mall ninja'ed", even in the fairly jokey way common around here.
Be as tactical as you like, folks. Keep buying those ARs [I've vowed to pick one up myself, and have already started stockpiling mags and ammo], AKs, Glocks, spare mags, Aimpoints, lasers, rail lights, etc., etc. There is strength in market share.
Buy a Barrett .50 BMG, if you've got the dough, live in a free state and have a place to shoot 'em.
Get more NFA stuff -- support another beleaguered gun subculture. [I find myself thinking, hmm, I should pitch in; my record's squeaky clean; there's no reason I couldn't get a local CLEO to sign off on a suppressor... ]
Or go retro and be as blued-steel and walnut as you like.
It's all good.
oldfart
Member
According to a message over on Glocktalk, Remington has already fired him. Let's see what his other sponsors do.
Anybody want to bet on how long before he commits suicide - literally, that is? He's already killed his carreer. I don't think I've ever seen this much furor over anything, even Bill Clinton or the Ditzzy Chicks couldn't drum up this much loathing.
Anybody want to bet on how long before he commits suicide - literally, that is? He's already killed his carreer. I don't think I've ever seen this much furor over anything, even Bill Clinton or the Ditzzy Chicks couldn't drum up this much loathing.
+1,000 P. Plainsman
There's guns that I wouldn't buy for myself because for some reason or the other, I don't like them. However, I will make a point to always be happy with those who DO like them.
It's the reason Baskin Robbins has so many flavors of ice cream....
John
PS: divides can always be fixed with JB Weld
There's guns that I wouldn't buy for myself because for some reason or the other, I don't like them. However, I will make a point to always be happy with those who DO like them.
It's the reason Baskin Robbins has so many flavors of ice cream....
John
PS: divides can always be fixed with JB Weld
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Baskin Robbins
I'm okay with vanilla and strawberry, even some crushed nuts.
But I think we should ban chocolate.
No honest person needs chocolate.
I'm okay with vanilla and strawberry, even some crushed nuts.
But I think we should ban chocolate.
No honest person needs chocolate.
Diamondback6
Member
I'm seen as a dissenter over at AmBack for my calls for Zumbo to be left a chance to redeem himself. BTW, I'm linking them over here.
No_Brakes23
Member
His half-arsed apology wasn't much different than a bigot who protests that they can't be racist because he has black friends. Flag waving and "Troop-supporting" don't make up for calling the bearers of AR and AK pattern rifles "Terrorists." Notice that he did not take that back. Way to support the troops, by calling them terrorists.
And as much as I would love to believe the Remington story at Glock Talk, it seems a little dubious. It would be very reassuring to hear that it was true, especially since I would like to continue supporting Remington.
And as much as I would love to believe the Remington story at Glock Talk, it seems a little dubious. It would be very reassuring to hear that it was true, especially since I would like to continue supporting Remington.
XavierBreath
Member
ArfinGreebly,
Post #333. Good post. Gave me food for thought. Indeed, food for thought.
I, too, was a sailor, and I know how valuable trust is at sea. There are times when it is best that a sailor leaves the ship at the next port of call and another sailor comes on board. I have a hard time seeing how this man can be redeemed. I, and I suspect others as well, will always think his first words of terrorist rifles were his true feelings. No amount of phone calls to Ted Nugent or interviews with Tom Gresham can change that. I give the man credit for several things.......He did not alter his words after the fact, he did respond promptly, and he has made an attempt. His apology does not address the issues at hand though, and it is tainted by coercion.
There are others who will have to go through life unforgiven. These include Robert Garwood, John Walker, Jane Fonda, John Kerry, and of course, there was Benedict Arnold. Their acts were beyond redemption to many. Zumbo has joined their ranks, and sadly, there will be more.
At times, a sailor cannot even be trusted to chip paint. He consumes more in chow and space than he is worth. His only value is to be held up as an example, ostracized, and pointed to with great scorn to show others what could happen to them if they are foolish enough to follow that path. That is where Zumbo is at. Zumbo's redemption, if it can be found at all, is up to Zumbo, and it will not come about by going deer hunting with a rock star and a AR. His suggestion that redemption could be reached in that manner only demonstrates his failure to understand the problem.
Post #333. Good post. Gave me food for thought. Indeed, food for thought.
I, too, was a sailor, and I know how valuable trust is at sea. There are times when it is best that a sailor leaves the ship at the next port of call and another sailor comes on board. I have a hard time seeing how this man can be redeemed. I, and I suspect others as well, will always think his first words of terrorist rifles were his true feelings. No amount of phone calls to Ted Nugent or interviews with Tom Gresham can change that. I give the man credit for several things.......He did not alter his words after the fact, he did respond promptly, and he has made an attempt. His apology does not address the issues at hand though, and it is tainted by coercion.
There are others who will have to go through life unforgiven. These include Robert Garwood, John Walker, Jane Fonda, John Kerry, and of course, there was Benedict Arnold. Their acts were beyond redemption to many. Zumbo has joined their ranks, and sadly, there will be more.
At times, a sailor cannot even be trusted to chip paint. He consumes more in chow and space than he is worth. His only value is to be held up as an example, ostracized, and pointed to with great scorn to show others what could happen to them if they are foolish enough to follow that path. That is where Zumbo is at. Zumbo's redemption, if it can be found at all, is up to Zumbo, and it will not come about by going deer hunting with a rock star and a AR. His suggestion that redemption could be reached in that manner only demonstrates his failure to understand the problem.
mrmeval
Member
wagon meat* band
Figured I'd chime in.
*yes meat
Figured I'd chime in.
*yes meat
Travis McGee
Member
"At times, a sailor cannot even be trusted to chip paint. He consumes more in chow and space than he is worth. His only value is to be held up as an example, ostracized, and pointed to with great scorn to show others what could happen to them if they are foolish enough to follow that path. That is where Zumbo is at. Zumbo's redemption..."
Dang, but that was well said!
Dang, but that was well said!
iamkris
Member
I think it is funny (or is it sad and pathetic) that there are now these words posted in the upper right hand corner of the Zumbo blog
Doh! OL didn't count on bonehead comments from one of their own...now they have to live with it
Doh! OL didn't count on bonehead comments from one of their own...now they have to live with it
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