Kaboom!!!

Hey mike, glad you are OK, those pics look pretty serious, you're lucky you didn't end up with wood in your neck when it blew.

Nah, you're not liable for anything. Sometimes bad stuff happens. And he's your best friend. If I were him, I'd probably be bummed that the gun blew up and I'm out the cash, and secretly glad I wasn't the one shooting when it happened, and guilty about feeling glad that it blew up on you instead of me, lol. But I wouldn't ask for money from you; best friends are all about getting into trouble together.

I wouldn't try to fix it. Or if you do, for goodness sake let him test it the first time.

Could have been out of battery;
Original G.I. carbines have bolts & hammers specifically designed to come together in such a way that if the bolt is not in battery, the hammer cannot reach the firing pin.
There is a "step" in each respective part to assure this, and from what I know Universal carbines (and possibly some others) omitted this mechanical safety design in their guns.


It is still possible to have a slam-fire if the firing pin is stuck forward due to excessive crud in the channel, or other problems.

A. Paul, that's enough silliness for one day.

Click to expand...

Well, okay if you insist.

On a serious note for you guys that know a lot about these carbines, looking at the damage is the thing worth fixing? I have to say, the gun looks better than I thought it would. I was expecting to see pieces of the gun piled up in the pic.

You're fortunate. I read on another forum after searching for it that a guy had a bolt blow back and hit him in his safety glasses. Good thing he was wearing protection or he'd have a glass eye right now.

And I'm with Fremmer, if Chris does decide to fix it make him do the test firing.

It's a late model universal....they are KNOWN for doing this..... just saying...

Take heed of one very important thing here people. If Fallout Mike hadn't been wearing his eye protection it is doubtful that we would be having this conversation.


Mike, I am glad you are ok.

Glad you are ok.
I wouldn't expect to replace a gun that was given to me to test along with ammo, not of my own request.
Thankfully he seems to be of the same mind

I've just deleted all the posts speculating and conjecturing about financial liability because some folks won't let it go. I also deleted a couple of other off topic snide remarks. Let's keep this focused on the mechanical aspects of what happened, and potential repairs to the rifle if possible.

Mike, I'm glad you're okay overall, and I'll repeat it as well: Learn from Mike's lesson. He's in good shape overall because he was wearing safety glasses. Safety glasses are cheap, and mechanic's type gloves which make excellent shooting gloves are also cheap. Wear your PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) when shooting.

That was probably caused by a failed slide. It probably cracked on the previous round and didn't lock into battery properly on the next round.

If this is one of the later production Universals they did not have a disconnector that prevented OOB firings. The trigger would release the firing pin from anywhere from about 3/8 inch OOB and lower. Farther back than that and the trigger didn't catch the sear and nothing happened. Of course with this much OOB spacing the bolt was not locked at all.

I know because I had one for a while. It was later sold with a warning about the OOB possibility and the buyer accepted that. I never did fire it myself because the ammo was scarce as hen's teeth around that time and when I did find some the sellers were asking a King's ransom for it.

In any event your story suggests that the action was sticking what with the stovepipes and such. And if it is a Universal with the OOB firing possibility then I can see this occurring all too easily.

Glad to read that it sounds like you'll heal up with no lasting issues.

What this says to me is, if you want a Carbine, spend the extra money and get a real GI model, or wait until you can afford one.

A defective and dangerous gun is less than worthless.

Eyes and ears are a must. Stories like this prove it. Good job on protecting yourself. And it does sound like an oddly common failure which should not be overlooked. A fault like that should be easy enough to fix, but it should have never been produced, so good job on taking a dangerous gun out of circulation.

Could have been out of battery;
Original G.I. carbines have bolts & hammers specifically designed to come together in such a way that if the bolt is not in battery, the hammer cannot reach the firing pin.

Click to expand...

Yes but,........ both the Garand and the GI carbine have a cam surface in the back of the bolt that matches a notch in the nose of the hammer. The hammer cannot hit the firing pin unless the bolt is in battery.


But, and this is a very big but, the firing pin can hit the primer because it is free floating. There is nothing blocking the firing pin until the moment of cam down, and even then, the firing pin retraction cam does not fully retract the firing pin, at least for Garands, even at thickest part of the cam. So if the hammer group is fine, and there is no bump firing, this mechanism is 100% dependent on primer sensitivity to prevent inbattery and out of battery slamfires. If there is cartridge case binding, then the bolt slows, the firing pin rebounds off the primer, and the lugs are not necessarily in engagement

And that is why these mechanisms will slamfire out of battery with a sensitive primer.

"if the hammer group is fine, and there is no bump firing, this mechanism is 100% dependent on primer sensitivity to prevent inbattery and out of battery slamfires"

While that is technically true, the fact remains that countless designs are out there with free floating firing pins that rarely have slam fire issues. Case in point, SKS's which aren't known for issues provided the pin can actually float. That would suggest that, unless the carbine in question has a particularly heavy firing pin like a one-piece FN49's is (as was alleged earlier), the culprit is possibly something else. If not a momentum-fire out of battery, a broken firing pin would do it; binds up on one cycle, causing light strikes. Aligns corner to corner the next, and now your firing pin protrudes no matter what.

Probably not inconceivable that a factory round could have a protruding primer, either (a quick look at the other rounds would probably show this)

Either that, or the RDX/Eldest Son theory

TCB

Universal is the first problem .. glad your OK I have two M1's love em There is no telling exactly what went wrong..

Glad to hear you didn't get marked up any worse than you did.

I have read a lot about carbines firing out of battery. Probably just seems like a lot of them because of stories being rehashed a million times on gun forums.

I have an Inland that I just purchased that I've only fired twice. I did that after a gunsmith checked it out. He also shot it and declared it safe. So in a week or two I will run some of my reloads in it, with eye, ear and hand protection.

I've loaded some with 400 and some with 450 CCI primers. Not sure which is better though I know 400 is standard per my load data. Some say use the 450 as it is thicker and reduce the load by 1 grain. I called the powder company and they said my load was fine using mag primers.

If the 400's work I will probably use those the next time I load because that's what is called for.

Any advice from the experts here?

Mike:

Although it is most likely the Universal that's the problem, do you have a lot number for the Aguila ammo? It never hurts to be aware of other potential issues.

CCI makes mil-spec primers just for this application.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30

Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential.

Re those CCI mil-spec primers:

I had a GI carbine from Fulton Armory, very nice, looked new.

I bought a bunch of those CCI primers & loaded up a couple hundred with different bullet types in new carbine brass. Gauged the brass.

Maybe one out of ten lit up on the first try, several took two strikes, some would not fire at all.

After talks with Fulton & sending the gun back to be checked out, and then having my local guy check headspace, we concluded the primers do not work well in a GI M1 carbine, and I still have the leftovers sitting in the basement.

The gun functioned perfectly with commercial loads.

I would advise against the CCI mil-spec primers in an M1 Carbine.

Walt Kulek, after some discussions with him, thought the carbine's setup doesn't mate well with them.

Just an FYI, and not knocking CCI. Just saying they were a dismal failure in my gun.
Denis

DPris - very useful data point. I had not heard that about the M1 Carbine and the CCI mil-spec primers.

I had heard the CCI mil-spec primers (in the correct large/small size) work well and are recommended for the AR16/M16 pattern, the M1 Garand and the M14/M1A pattern, but those could be very different with regard to the force transmitted by the hammer and/or the firing pin contour.

If they don't work well for your application perhaps sell them on. I'm assuming they are smalls, so anyone who reloads for the AR15 pattern could use them assuming they're using a stock firing pin and hammer spring.

So glad to hear you are OK.

Other than the possibility that something with the firearm malfunctioned, this type of incident is what has driven me to reload my own for the last several decades, just saying...

Again, I'm glad to hear you aren't seriously injured.
God Bless!

GS

I'm also glad you weren't seriously harmed Mike...

This is why I never fire a gun without eyes and ears and for the past 5 years I've been wearing gloves. They are very cheap insurance policies and Mike can tell you how important they are since he just went through it and he saved himself a lot of pain...