USSR
Member
Regarding the "harmonics" of a barrel. Forget about adding some sort of mechanical "tuner". Tuning is a function done through load development, pure and simple.
Don
Don
1,000 yard rifle?
- Thread starter Mark-Smith
- Start date
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1stmarine
Member
Steel Talon,
500 with a good rifle, load and scope no problem.
Actually with these components and a little training, guidance and practice anyone can get good results. Overtime you should be keeping within MOA with moderate or no wind.
You do not need to always shoot at 1000 yards to become better at 1000 yards. For example you can train at 300 and become very familiar with all the variables that also affect at long range. Some folks do not have an option since the range closer to their homes might be 200-300 and a 1000yard might be far away so they do not go as often. Even at 300 yards you can start to see what the effects of weather, wind, mirage and other variables have in your practice. It is very important that you know your system well and that you know the load and bullet well and know what it does when it leaves the barrel. Have a chart with your ballistics that include bullet lift and spin-drift. Measure your loads and speed spread to assure accurate calculations. I keep my speed spreads in the single digit difference with slow and careful reloading.
Also understand how the scope value and the "mean" value of the adjustment consolidate. The more "actual" (vs. estimate) points you map in your chart the better you get to know how the trajectory behaves.
Out in the field some software and a Kestral I find them a must.
What works for me might not work for others. It might not work for you based on your system characteristics likes and dislikes. The information I give you is from my own experiences first hand.
Cheers,
E.
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1stmarine
Member
You have to decide if tuning is something you need. Before you should look at other things. Initially your tune your loads and if you do not find a load that works or you do not reload you could try a tuner.
A good understanding of reloading and a good understanding of how to tune will give you more possibilities and overall versatility.
It is not for everyone that is for sure.
Cheers,
E.
A good understanding of reloading and a good understanding of how to tune will give you more possibilities and overall versatility.
It is not for everyone that is for sure.
Cheers,
E.
1stmarine
Member
Mark-Smith,
Could you verify your purpose? A lot of folks come to the post with very good suggestions but I believe you indicated the 1000 yards was not the primary and/or only purpose.
Maybe the post header should change so you do not get througn out of context.
- Is it the purpose for occasional 1000 yards or dedicated?
- Also are you looking for a versatile entry level baseline or high end dedicated?
Let us know.
Thanks,
E.
Could you verify your purpose? A lot of folks come to the post with very good suggestions but I believe you indicated the 1000 yards was not the primary and/or only purpose.
Maybe the post header should change so you do not get througn out of context.
- Is it the purpose for occasional 1000 yards or dedicated?
- Also are you looking for a versatile entry level baseline or high end dedicated?
Let us know.
Thanks,
E.
1stmarine
Member
...some humor...
with this shotgun you can do a bullseye at 1000 all the time and then even change the target from your bench if you put a paper clamp at the muzzle.
http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/
with this shotgun you can do a bullseye at 1000 all the time and then even change the target from your bench if you put a paper clamp at the muzzle.
http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/
Skylerbone
Member
I sea. I am was just cheking, beecause they're seamed two be sumthing wrong wifh you're post, like if you was using bowth at the same gun at the same times.
I think I know what I need to, thanks.
I think I know what I need to, thanks.
1stmarine
Member
Mark-Smith,
Did you make your decision?
Could you verify your purpose? A lot of folks come to the post with very good suggestions but I believe you indicated the 1000 yards was not the primary and/or only purpose.
Maybe the post header should change so you do not get througn out of context.
- Is it the purpose for occasional 1000 yards or dedicated?
- Also are you looking for a versatile entry level baseline or high end dedicated?
Cheers,
E.
Did you make your decision?
Could you verify your purpose? A lot of folks come to the post with very good suggestions but I believe you indicated the 1000 yards was not the primary and/or only purpose.
Maybe the post header should change so you do not get througn out of context.
- Is it the purpose for occasional 1000 yards or dedicated?
- Also are you looking for a versatile entry level baseline or high end dedicated?
Cheers,
E.
Mark-Smith
Member
A Tikka T3 or something from the Savage lineup looks like the most likely rifle at this point. Nikon prostaff, monarch, or a used leupold IV if I can find one for a good price.
Target practice at 1,000 yards, deer hunting, boar hunting, pronghorn in the panhandle if I ever find myself with an excess of cash lol.
Target practice at 1,000 yards, deer hunting, boar hunting, pronghorn in the panhandle if I ever find myself with an excess of cash lol.
1stmarine
Member
That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming. There are many good recommendations from other fellow members but I wanted to make sure we stayed in the right track for you.
Again my recommendation would be Savage or Rem 700 tac. They are affordable as you need and extremely accurate. Even a tad better than the tikka. I have the 3 of them so I can tell you from first hand experience. These are not the ideal for "1000 YARDS ONLY" but you clarified your different purposes and anyway you can do some good shots at 1000 still supersonic and for what you want are overall pretty versatile and easy to carry if you want to hunt. Once more, .5MOA and better out of the box for $600-$650 pretty hard to beat.As you know the official operating range of the .308WIN is 800yards. You know .308 Win might be a little short for certain apps. but it is still the most popular and do many things do it pretty well type of round. In the military we had this round everywhere in the light armed vehicles, helicopters, light machine guns, rifles, carbines, etc... Brass and good bullets are plentiful and more affordable than other rounds.
I have many other calibers but the .308 WIN will always have a place in the front of the rack in the gun safe.
I found this article for you.... http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm
Also consider these 2 rounds. Barnes TSX 168gr and TSX 180gr. Didn't failed me once.
Also the Nosler partition are very good.
All the rest you know from the thread.
Good luck.
E.
Again my recommendation would be Savage or Rem 700 tac. They are affordable as you need and extremely accurate. Even a tad better than the tikka. I have the 3 of them so I can tell you from first hand experience. These are not the ideal for "1000 YARDS ONLY" but you clarified your different purposes and anyway you can do some good shots at 1000 still supersonic and for what you want are overall pretty versatile and easy to carry if you want to hunt. Once more, .5MOA and better out of the box for $600-$650 pretty hard to beat.As you know the official operating range of the .308WIN is 800yards. You know .308 Win might be a little short for certain apps. but it is still the most popular and do many things do it pretty well type of round. In the military we had this round everywhere in the light armed vehicles, helicopters, light machine guns, rifles, carbines, etc... Brass and good bullets are plentiful and more affordable than other rounds.
I have many other calibers but the .308 WIN will always have a place in the front of the rack in the gun safe.
I found this article for you.... http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm
Also consider these 2 rounds. Barnes TSX 168gr and TSX 180gr. Didn't failed me once.
Also the Nosler partition are very good.
All the rest you know from the thread.
Good luck.
E.
Mark-Smith
Member
Commonly available ammo is a big plus, as I've yet to get into reloading and wouldn't want my rifle choice to be contingent on starting into that right off the bat.
1stmarine
Member
Kludge,
These are tac rifles, not bench rest rifles.
7.5 pounds is not heavy for most folks I know. I can carry all day w/o any problems. I do carry double strap which is much better for your spine for anything you carry anyway. The shorter barrels eliminate weight while group a tad better. Pick up one and then let me know what you think.
Cheers,
E.
1stmarine
Member
I would agree that 6.5 and 7mm have very good bullets but not the case for budget minded that doesn't reload and anyway the tac systems have 1:10 twist of rate will do great with the 168, 175SMKs (official military sniper round) and can stabilize up to 220gr bullets and also subsonic.
With the barnes TSX 180gr you can take down bear w/o any problems where .30 caliber allowed. I am not sure a 6.5 as I never tried or will try.
In terms of bullet selection the biggest range/verstility is in the .224, 6mm and 30 cal. That is a fact. I do understand thought the great capabilities of the 6.5 and 7mm bullets. They are awesome, no doubt.
Everything really starts and ends with a good bullet, everything else is to get that bullet from the little carton box to the desired target.
It is really up to Mark-Smith. It looks like budget, case-bullet combination is a factor too.
All good stuff here.
Cheers.
E.
With the barnes TSX 180gr you can take down bear w/o any problems where .30 caliber allowed. I am not sure a 6.5 as I never tried or will try.
In terms of bullet selection the biggest range/verstility is in the .224, 6mm and 30 cal. That is a fact. I do understand thought the great capabilities of the 6.5 and 7mm bullets. They are awesome, no doubt.
Everything really starts and ends with a good bullet, everything else is to get that bullet from the little carton box to the desired target.
It is really up to Mark-Smith. It looks like budget, case-bullet combination is a factor too.
All good stuff here.
Cheers.
E.
bubbinator
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 88
Savage is building an "F" Class rifle in a great stock for not a lot of bucks. The scope will cost more! I have Savage Handgun that out shoots 90% of factory rifles that I got at a gunshow for $450 w/ scope! 7mm-08. Not a 1K platform, praise for Savage was the point.
1stmarine
Member
Savage was adopted by the Philippines special units to fight terrorists over there. They did extensive testing and went with the .308 and a few lapuas in the HS Stocks.
They are awesome. I have the 10FP LE1 and can do .40 groups with match ammo and .25 with hand loads all day.
I would go with either one of these Savage tacs or the rem 700 SPS tac and leave the tikka out.
Cheers.
E.
They are awesome. I have the 10FP LE1 and can do .40 groups with match ammo and .25 with hand loads all day.
I would go with either one of these Savage tacs or the rem 700 SPS tac and leave the tikka out.
Cheers.
E.
I have a TAC rifle (Savage 110FP in .308) I would never consider hunting with it. It's ~10.5# with scope, but there's and extra 12 oz of steel in the stock. It not a benchrest rifle by any stretch.
My actual hunting rifle is 8.5# with scope (22" magnum taper). It's the absolute limit. 6.5# to 7# would be much nicer, but I can't believe anything with a 20" bull barrel weighs 7.5 pounds. If it does it's got crap for a stock.
1stmarine
Member
Kludge,
Again these are 20" (twenty inches) barrels.
Read the entire thread if you didn't. The post owner is not looking for a "hunting ONLY" rifle for for a "1000 yards ONLY" rifle.
The stock is not the best but this is what it does out of the box....
http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm I have one and I changed the stock and it is a bit heavier but not much and prints .3moa w/o any problems. I have no problem carrying all day. Army and Marine snipers carry these with much heavier gear all day from artic temps to 105 degree during the day.
I like 20" bull barrels, they are extremely accurate. There are some good hunting rifles but when you try this at mid-long range then all the hunting rifles go to the back of the rack.
I just came back form a party of a friend and also a fellow marine that just came back from Afganistan and we were just talking about this, how good the 700's are. Before you put this rifle down understand the key elements why it is so good for the military...accuracy, reliability and versatility and,
that my friends, that's the name of the game.
Mark-Smith. I am done with this thread. Good luck.
Shoot often and stay safe.
Cheers,
E.
Again these are 20" (twenty inches) barrels.
Read the entire thread if you didn't. The post owner is not looking for a "hunting ONLY" rifle for for a "1000 yards ONLY" rifle.
The stock is not the best but this is what it does out of the box....
http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm I have one and I changed the stock and it is a bit heavier but not much and prints .3moa w/o any problems. I have no problem carrying all day. Army and Marine snipers carry these with much heavier gear all day from artic temps to 105 degree during the day.
I like 20" bull barrels, they are extremely accurate. There are some good hunting rifles but when you try this at mid-long range then all the hunting rifles go to the back of the rack.
I just came back form a party of a friend and also a fellow marine that just came back from Afganistan and we were just talking about this, how good the 700's are. Before you put this rifle down understand the key elements why it is so good for the military...accuracy, reliability and versatility and,
that my friends, that's the name of the game.
Mark-Smith. I am done with this thread. Good luck.
Shoot often and stay safe.
Cheers,
E.
Well... there's commonly available online and commonly available at WalMart. Even stuff that you'll never find at WalMart is available at places like Midway USA. Like .260 Rem and .280 Rem... both would be great long range antelope/deer cartridges and are also good cadidates for a 1,000 yard rifle. If you want something that will be in stock at WalMart then .223, .243, .270, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-30, .30-06, and .308 somtimes is on the shelf at my local WalMart and nothing else. Ever. 7mm-08 is getting more and more popular and the 6.5x55 Swede is 100 years old, but you'd never know it by looking at her. The better sporting goods stores ond online retailers will usually have all of them in stock.
If you really want to shoot 1,000 yards you will be handloading eventually, but there's no problem in working up to it. There's a lot of factory ammo these days that will do a great job at 300, 400 yards and beyond... but after you shoot a dozen boxes of that stuff you'll be looking for a reloading setup for sure.
At any rate, and they've probably all been mentioned already, here's a list of rather common cartridges that I thing would do a good job at 1,000 yards and good for long range hunting up to whitetail size game...
.30-06, .308 Win, 7mm WSM, .280 Rem, .284 Win, 7mm-08, .270 WSM, .270 Win, 6.5-.284, 6.5x55mm, .260 Rem.
And if you show up in Oklahoma or Wyoming for a hunt with any of them, no one will bat an eye.
(yes, 7mm Rem Mag isn't on the list... no personal experience with that cartridge, but if I were after a 7mm Rem Mag for a 1,000 yard rifle, I would be having it custom chambered... in fact I might do it for any one of them... but a belted magnum isn't something I would choose if I knew I was going to be handloading 1,000 yard ammo.)
Skylerbone
Member
Amen to that list kludge, especially the last 4 caliber choices. I'm a little lost on where this thread is at now. How 'bout them Hawks!
Seriously consider reloading both for the reward of doing it yourself and for accuracy's sake. It need not cost an arm and a leg either. For a press, digital scale, die set and priming tool you can spend less than $100 if you watch the sales. For under $200 (assuming you've got some spent brass) you could have 200 rounds loaded to hone your skills with. Equipment will multiply over the years but that adds ideas to the Christmas wish list of items you'd prefer to Old Spice and ties (unless you're real old school).
Seriously consider reloading both for the reward of doing it yourself and for accuracy's sake. It need not cost an arm and a leg either. For a press, digital scale, die set and priming tool you can spend less than $100 if you watch the sales. For under $200 (assuming you've got some spent brass) you could have 200 rounds loaded to hone your skills with. Equipment will multiply over the years but that adds ideas to the Christmas wish list of items you'd prefer to Old Spice and ties (unless you're real old school).
This was mentioned earlier in the thread,but if you are looking for a hunting rifle instead of trying to shoot from 1,000 yards why not improve you hunting skills. The last 4 deer I have taken have been within 30 yards and used a black powder rifle or shotgun slugs.
Mark-Smith
Member
I'm not planning on doing much hunting at a 1,000 yards, rather target practice at the range. Having a rifle that could be used for hunting in *addition* to punching paper is a desired thing. Save boar, not too much hunting you can do year round. Besides, only so much room in the freezer!
GuysModel94
Member
If you want to do this on the cheap, i would recommend you look at the Weatherby Vangaurd in .338 Win. Mag., rifle can be had for about $500.- and you get a quality rifle and excellent customer service, somebody actually answers the phone there.
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