1911 SA milspec or loaded

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trickyasafox

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k i've been wanting a 1911 for a while, and really like what SA has to offer. my question is: is their a significant difference in quality to justify the loaded over the milspec? and if no, how much would it cost to have some novak sights retrofitted to a milspec? is this a do it yourself project or does the slide require milling/fitting?

the gun will most likely be a "gun club special" but i would also like to be able to toss it in the car or on my hip for hunting trips as well. for ccw i think its a bit large, so im not even going to consider pushing it into that role(assuming my permit comes back even allowing me to take that role)

so i guess i just dont really understand where all the extra cost comes from between the two guns. by me its about a 150 dollar-200 dollar difference between the models.
 
Some of the cost difference is due to the Novak sights on the Loaded, and some of the difference is due to the parts "upgrades" in the grip safety, elongated Commander hammer, three-hole trigger, front cocking serrations, and the ambi safety lock. The market will pay more for the parts on the Loaded.

If you are really set on the Novak sights, the Loaded is a decent deal. The Mil-Spec would have to have the slide milled for both the front and rear sights. The cost for the Novak sights, the install, and a new finish (if not stainless) would also cost about $150 to $200, including shipping.
 
just get the loaded and be done with it.Your already considering adding this or that to a milspec.The loaded alreaded comes with a lot of nice features for the money ,its one of the best deals you can get for the price.Dont fuss over a couple hundo, two or three nights out at red lobster will surpass that.You will have this gun a life time,someone after your gone will use and abuse it so get the best one you can, enjoy it ,and you wont have to regret being stuck with second choices and wanting to upgrade this or that.Just my opnion,but Ive been through this with thousands of dollars worth of "oh Ill just get this for now,its good enough for me"guns, knives and tools.If I had saved all the money from all that kind of thinking Id have the friggin FBI PRO with thirty wilson mags and a titanium carry case.
 
+1 on the Loaded. I really like my SA. 7500 trouble free rounds will do that ever time. Plus I love it for USPSA competion in the Limited 10 class.

Why are you discounting it from CCW service? I carry mine in a VM-2 IWB and it is readily concealed.
 
I didn't have a lot of green and wanted a 1911 and had saved up for the milspec for quite a while. When it came time to choose, I realized I wanted, or would eventually add, the features found on the loaded. I just ponied up the extra dough and bought the loaded with night sights. Been extremely happy with it. Still want a milspec eventually, though.
 
Good choice.

The more I learn about the 1911, the less I like most bells and all whistles.

Novaks elminate options, without returning any benefit relevent to modern life.

As do a couple other features.

Good luck!
 
While I agree that 'bells and whistles' are usually things that get in the way, I'm not sure I understand your statement about novaks, Jammer Six.

You said "Novaks elminate options, without returning any benefit relevent to modern life."

I assume you mean that since the novaks have a particular slide cut, you can't use other sights. But if you already think the novaks are great, why would you want to change them? I also don't see how they fail to give a benefit. They are easy to see and to use, but the design makes them smooth and snag-proof.

I definitely don't get the '..relevant to modern life' comment in any way. As far as modern needs go, the requirements for a good defensive pistol across time have not changed much. We've just seen what things are worth having and what aren't. On my list are sights you can see well and easily, relatively smoothed and dehorned, and perfect reliability.
 
SpookyPistolero said:
While I agree that 'bells and whistles' are usually things that get in the way, I'm not sure I understand your statement about novaks, Jammer Six.

You said "Novaks elminate options, without returning any benefit relevent to modern life."

I assume you mean that since the novaks have a particular slide cut, you can't use other sights. But if you already think the novaks are great, why would you want to change them? I also don't see how they fail to give a benefit. They are easy to see and to use, but the design makes them smooth and snag-proof.

I definitely don't get the '..relevant to modern life' comment in any way. As far as modern needs go, the requirements for a good defensive pistol across time have not changed much. We've just seen what things are worth having and what aren't. On my list are sights you can see well and easily, relatively smoothed and dehorned, and perfect reliability.
No, I'm not talking about the cut. You can't rack Novaks on a belt- they're designed to slip off.

Modern life means that in Seattle, in 2005, I'm never going to take a shot in the dark.

That's a thing you do in a combat zone, not in modern America. Here, you're responsible for all your bullets. Here, you need to see your target.

Here, I have a flashlight, or I don't shoot.

With a flashlight, you don't need night sights. Iron sights show up as a nice, clear silhouette in the dark against an illuminated target.

If you can see well enough to identify your target, you don't need Novaks.

Novaks, therefore, specifically BECAUSE they are a "snag-free" design, eliminate a tactical option without delivering a balancing benefit.

You know, like the guide rod. :D

Fishing lures aren't designed to catch fish, they're designed to catch fishermen.

Novaks, the Loaded model, FLFRs, ambi safeties (unless you're left handed), all fishing lures.

Fishing lures are excellent moves for fishing lure companies, and all those things are excellent moves for Springfield.

But fishing lures are not good moves for fishermen.

In another sport, we call this phenomenon trying "to buy your way out of a problem", we call it a "convolution", and a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. We call it a hardware solution for a training problem.

The problem of snagging rear sights on cover garments doesn't exist. Dehorned rear sights are nice and soft, and don't catch on anything. The problem of a shot in the pitch dark is a training problem, and requires a piece of equipment that also solves another problem inherent to that scenario- a flashlight, which is necessary for target ID. Since you need the flashlight and the skill to use it, anyway, you don't need the Novaks.

I'll take training and skill over hardware "solutions" any day.
 
That's quite a smack in the face to lots of folks to presume that since you don't see a need for a feature, then it's a useless attempt to compensate for lack of skill.

That's super that snagging sights have never been a problem for you. They have for me, so it was worth changing. They have snagged on the draw, and complicated concealment. They also have cut my hands up before, which is the main reason behind wanting a streamlined pistol, for me.

The very reason I want night sights is so I can know where I am aiming in low-light, not so that I can take random shots in the dark. It doesn't mean I don't carry a flashlight for target identification either. But it's making a hefty gamble to think you will definitely have time to draw that flashlight too, or that you will have a free hand to spare. I don't like to gamble. I fail to see why people think night sights and a flashlight are mutually exclusive. Both have their use.

Just because it's dark enough that night sights are valuable, doesn't mean it's dark enough that you can't see your target.

When a bad guy is nearly on top of you and you only have time to draw the pistol (not the flashlight), you want sights you can see even without the luxury of bright lights.
 
I do find it ironic that in light of your objections to "gadgets" as they may limit your options, you yourself rely on a flashlight. Those tend to fail as well...

;)
 
If you like the features on the Loaded model, I think you would easily spend over $400 putting them on a Mil-spec model.

As mentioned, Novaks sights, beavertail, ambi safety, new hammer, trigger job because the hammer and thumb safeties now have to be "fit" to the sear, refinishing(maybe). If no one can do it local, add $60-$80 in freight. :)

Buy a Mil-spec if you don't want those features, or you want different sights, beavertail, better fitting of parts, etc, etc...but you pay. May or may not be worth to you.
 
I have no objection to gadgets that serve real purposes. My objection is to bells and whistles that don't serve a purpose, or that remove options. I thought I made that clear.

Another example is that ridiculous bump on the beavertail. A hardware solution to a training problem, and one that will start hurting your hand after about 150 or 200 rounds in a session. Better to adjust a nice, warm, flat beavertail, and learn to grip it.

I LIKE gadgets that serve real purposes.

Like flashlights.

What I REALLY like is gadgets that serve more than one purpose.

Like flashlights.

The thread has made my point quite nicely, and that pleases me.

The more I learn, the less I like all bells and most whistles.

Everyone have a nice day. :cool:
 
Go with the loaded. The original military sights are simply awful, and the extra money for good sites is worth it.
 
Again, because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't for others. I've had many 600+ rnd sessions and certainly didn't have a sore palm from the bump on the grip safety. It does keep me comfortably certain that it was engaged, though. Sorry to hear it caused you trouble.

Have a super afternoon! :rolleyes:
 
You can buy the loaded for less than you would pay someone to add all the stuff, unless you can do it yourself
 
Wow, here's a thread where I find myself actually (mostly) in agreement with Jammer Six ... Now, I've got both the Mil-Spec (one park'd, one SS) and the Loaded (in stainless) ... Frankly, the Mil-Spec does everything a 1911 needs to do (except possess glow-in-the-dark sights, which as J-6 correctly points out, are useless if one can't see one's target anyway).

Another feature the Loaded does have that I've decided is useless are the front cocking serrations. I do find my Loaded to be somewhat more accurate than the Mil-Specs. But for those of us who like the arched mainspring housing, don't need the bump on the grip safety, don't need that pointy extended ambi-safety and like the higher profile sights ... Mil-Specs are really all we need. Plus, they look so much nicer without all the extra crap on 'em ... nice, clean lines.
The original military sights are simply awful, and the extra money for good sites is worth it
No, the GI sights are awful; the Mil-Spec's sights are fine. But, the Loaded does come stock with much nicer grips ... In my neck of the woods, the parkerized Loaded goes for about $145 more than the SS Mil-Spec.
 
Wow, here's a thread where I find myself actually (mostly) in agreement with Jammer Six
Don't look so surprised, old man.

24 years means you signed on Back In The Day- you're old enough to remember being issued a milspec.

I did own a Loaded model- sold it at a loss, and replaced it with another milspec as I learned, for some of the reasons I've outlined, among others.

Don't even get me wound up about that guide rod, or I'll have to point out the option that IT eliminates. :D

For what it's worth, when I started thinking this stuff through, I reacted much as Spooky Pistolero is reacting now.

Deciding that the piece of equipment you've already spent a bunch of money on was something other than the best possible choice is not easy to do.

It's much easier to convince me of something BEFORE I put my money down.
 
I'm really trying hard not to believe that you aren't a troll since you have over seven hundred posts here. What I can't understand is why you continue to make such incredibly inflammatory statements if you aren't one.

I spent 6 years deciding what I wanted out of a 1911. I spent that much time deciding what would be valuable to me, what worked for me, what features were important for the intended roles of the piece and what was a waste of time. I've been a shooter and a minimalist my entire life. I know what is practical and what does and doesn't work for me.

Underhanded insults implying that I was 'sold' something or that I thought having an extended safety versus a GI safety turned me into an 'expert' are far from the High Road.

I really don't care what's best for you. I got what's best for me, and I knew what that was long before hand.

This is degrading into the negative for me so I'm out of this thread.

-Spooky, over and out.
 
careful SP

SpookyPistolero said:
I'm really trying hard not to believe that you aren't a troll since you have over seven hundred posts here.

I really don't care what's best for you. I got what's best for me, and I knew what that was long before hand.

In all fairness, before you start throwing "troll" around, remember you did ask.

Jammer's first post in this thread:
Jammer Six said:
Good choice.
The more I learn about the 1911, the less I like most bells and all whistles.
Novaks elminate options, without returning any benefit relevent to modern life. As do a couple other features. Good luck!

Your response to Jammer's above post, addressed specifically to Jammer:
SpookyPistolero said:
While I agree that 'bells and whistles' are usually things that get in the way, I'm not sure I understand your statement about novaks, Jammer Six. You said "Novaks elminate options, without returning any benefit relevent to modern life." I assume you mean that since the novaks have a particular slide cut, you can't use other sights. But if you already think the novaks are great, why would you want to change them?

Sorry, don't mean to further instigate or hijack. But to call "troll" just because someone disagrees with you is not appropriate. Read his first post, and think about whether he jumped in here to intentionally infuriate you, or start a flame war, or say something inflamatory just to count responses. If you ask someone a question, expect an answer. But don't later say you don't care and call troll because you got mad at the reply.


Ok, back on topic.
On the 1911, if you would otherwise spend any cash at all on upgrades, I would recommend you just go with the loaded. More cost effective. My preference would be the Novaks, and I like the looks of the front serrations. Resale value might be better on a loaded too. (See how I can disagree with Jammer, but don't take personal offense to his opposing opinion?)
 
Resale value might be better on a loaded too
I took $400 when I sold mine.

When I replaced it with a milspec, I was surprised at how much the price had increased on the milspec, while the Loaded had stayed the same.

Supply and demand...
 
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