I got my Wilson two stage trigger for my AR installed. It is really smooth at set at 3.5 lbs. Here is the rub, it says two stage. I thought 2 stage was something like my National Match, you take up slack then you get to the trigger action. However, the Wilson hits the trigger action right off the bat. A short crisp trigger pull, no slack what so ever. Am I wrong about the definition of a 2 stage or did Wilson put the wrong trigger in the 2 stage box?
2 Stage Trigger
- Thread starter Rubikees
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dprice3844444
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ask them
madcratebuilder
Member
You may have received a miss boxed single stage trigger. A two stage should have about 3-3.5lbs pull in the first stage with a slight amount of travel. Then it should hit the second stage and need 1-1.5lbs addition pull for the trigger to break.
IsaacCarlson
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- Dec 23, 2011
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I have never understood why they make two stage triggers....
There is no benefit that I can see. I have shot a number of single and two stage and can't see why the two stage is "better". The two stage triggers that were adjusted to where there was no creep were in all respects a single stage.
There is no benefit that I can see. I have shot a number of single and two stage and can't see why the two stage is "better". The two stage triggers that were adjusted to where there was no creep were in all respects a single stage.
It may be how the triggers were adjusted. I have a Geissele SSA two stage trigger (non-adjustable but no need) that has no creep whatsoever. 2 1/2 lb first stage, 2 lb second. Very crisp break and short over-travel. I prefer this when shooting standing because it gives me a lighter final pull for accuracy but maintains a reasonable total pull (4 1/2 lb in my case) for safety. I would not personally want a trigger lighter than 4 lbs on anything but a bench gun, but I find that I am more accurate with lighter triggers. For slow fire the short, light second stage helps minimise the movement of the barrel while I'm breaking the shot. I find that my group sizes are usually tighter with a good (properly adjusted) 2 stage trigger. If I want to fire more rapidly, a quicker pull of the trigger goes right through the first stage and I don't even notice that it's there. Best of both worlds. That is just my experience, and other folks may not find that it improves their groups by any measurable amount. If that's the case, there's no point in wasting money on one.
NeuseRvrRat
Member
^^personal preference
Welding Rod
Member
Weird. I have shot numerous 2-stage triggers in M1 Garands, M1As, and ARs (and perhaps some M14s - I can't really remember too well that far back) that had no perceptable creep that functioned in a definite 2-stage operation.
In fact I have never shot a 2-stage that acted anything like a single stage. I think a smith would have to really foul up a trigger job to result in what you describe.
The desireabilty lies is its ability to be robust and safe with plenty of sear engagement, while at the same time delivering a reasonably light "final" trigger pull with minimal or no perceptable creep.
madcratebuilder
Member
Many precision shooters like a two stage trigger. A typical 3.5lb first stage and 4.5lb second stage "feels" like a 1lb trigger. You pull up the first stage with the 3.5lbs pull,then hit the second stage, this is a hard stop. Add 1lb of pull and you have a crisp break with zero creep, like breaking glass. This is much safer than a 1lb single stage trigger. Safety is one reason so many mil-surps are two stage.
If you're shooting a fast game like three gun you want a fast resetting single stage trigger. It lets you get the second,third shoot off faster than a two stage. A lot is personal preference also.
supercalvin56
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Google up a picture of a single and 2 stage and compare to your own.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Hit the ground running with a loaded military rifle and use the rifle butt to break your fall and you might better understand it.
As Welding Rod said in post #8:
As
As the other posters have said. a two stage is a safe way to make a military trigger perform like a target trigger. If you take apart your trigger group and inspect the sear/bearing surfaces you will see how a two stage takes the classic creep plagued design and makes it predictable and crisp. I have a single stage adjustable trigger and you adjust allot of the sear engagement out of the equation thus reducing the stages and the creep. The cost I suppose is some margin of safety that our military deemed necessary at the expense of accuracy.
wanderinwalker
Member
OP,
Sounds like you may have a single-stage in that Wilson box. Normally a two-stage trigger will function just like you described your RRA trigger.
NOW, there could be a lot of weight adjusted onto the first stage. I shoot Highpower with a fellow who has a Geiselle in his AR. I've tried it (fitted to his CLE .22 upper) and he has a lot of weight on the first stage. It feels like you are pulling the trigger through the first stage, but it does come to a stop at the second stage where it breaks cleanly and lightly. I imagine if you weren't expecting a two stage action it would be pretty easy to blow through the entire trigger pull and think it was a funny single-stage trigger.
What I have to wonder is, where the two-stage trigger can be made safer with more reliable sear engagement, why do they make single-stage triggers?
(I also know of almost nobody who shoots position rifle matches with single-stage triggers.)
Sounds like you may have a single-stage in that Wilson box. Normally a two-stage trigger will function just like you described your RRA trigger.
NOW, there could be a lot of weight adjusted onto the first stage. I shoot Highpower with a fellow who has a Geiselle in his AR. I've tried it (fitted to his CLE .22 upper) and he has a lot of weight on the first stage. It feels like you are pulling the trigger through the first stage, but it does come to a stop at the second stage where it breaks cleanly and lightly. I imagine if you weren't expecting a two stage action it would be pretty easy to blow through the entire trigger pull and think it was a funny single-stage trigger.
What I have to wonder is, where the two-stage trigger can be made safer with more reliable sear engagement, why do they make single-stage triggers?
(I also know of almost nobody who shoots position rifle matches with single-stage triggers.)P-32
Member
IsaacCarlson wrote:
A two stage trigger allows you to have the feel of a 2 pound trigger like on your hunting rifle. You get on target, pull the 1st stage slack, get the front post or cross hairs right where you want it and pull the remaing 2 stage. The NRa requires a 4 1/2 pound trigger on a service rifle. Try shooting off hand or standing with a 4 1/2 trigger pull. Then try it with a 2 stage with a 1 pound 2nd stage. Pull the slack out of the 1st stage, get the front post where you want it and break the shot. If you adjust a 2 stage where there is no 1st stage slack, then you don't have a 2 stage trigger and it's wrong.
A two stage trigger allows you to have the feel of a 2 pound trigger like on your hunting rifle. You get on target, pull the 1st stage slack, get the front post or cross hairs right where you want it and pull the remaing 2 stage. The NRa requires a 4 1/2 pound trigger on a service rifle. Try shooting off hand or standing with a 4 1/2 trigger pull. Then try it with a 2 stage with a 1 pound 2nd stage. Pull the slack out of the 1st stage, get the front post where you want it and break the shot. If you adjust a 2 stage where there is no 1st stage slack, then you don't have a 2 stage trigger and it's wrong.
To add in, some competitions specify a given trigger weight. If you have to meet a 4.5lb trigger pull rule then you see benefit in a good 2 stage trigger. If you have a very light trigger I find more control in a 2 stage pull. I own an older FWB olympic style 10m air rifle. The pull on that trigger is possibly the greatest trigger I've ever felt in my life. Absolute perfection. It is 2 stage and when you are wobbling around in offhand it's nice to have the first stage to buffer initial trigger touch.
On a bench rest rifle I'll take a single stage but there for a competitive gun you won't touch the trigger until everything else is perfect. In position shooting you make contact with the trigger earlier. It's also nice to pull the majority of the weight up and hold trigger pressure until you are happy with your sight alignment and sight picture. With a crisp single stage there is no movement so you can't as easily take up 3/4 of the weight and hold off on the last 1/4 until you are happy with the sights.
Honestly, for most anything but benchrest I'll take a quality 2 stage trigger. I find them easier to use offhand and I also tend to see fewer flinches with a 2 stage trigger. If you have to think about pulling the first stage but not blasting through the 2nd I've noticed a lot of flinching disappears.
On a bench rest rifle I'll take a single stage but there for a competitive gun you won't touch the trigger until everything else is perfect. In position shooting you make contact with the trigger earlier. It's also nice to pull the majority of the weight up and hold trigger pressure until you are happy with your sight alignment and sight picture. With a crisp single stage there is no movement so you can't as easily take up 3/4 of the weight and hold off on the last 1/4 until you are happy with the sights.
Honestly, for most anything but benchrest I'll take a quality 2 stage trigger. I find them easier to use offhand and I also tend to see fewer flinches with a 2 stage trigger. If you have to think about pulling the first stage but not blasting through the 2nd I've noticed a lot of flinching disappears.
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