.223 50 grain hollow-point and 55 grain soft-point...self-protection/defense ?

[Southern Shooter]

Overtime I have acquired a large number of .223 ammo in Federal Power-shok 50 grain hollow-point and Monarch (brass) 55 grain soft-point. These were bought when I mainly was shooting a Ruger Mini-14 for varmints. However, I recently purchased an AR-15 for recreation and more serious issues if they ever arise.

My concern is this:
Are these hollow-point and soft-point rounds of any use in terms of self-protection or defense? I assume that they will not have the penetration of a fmj. But, are they useless for the indicated purposes and should be left to varmint hunting?

Thanks

 

[sojournerhome]

Keep it. It is very good for defense. If the grain is accurate for your rifle...shot placement is everything.

Unless you need to shoot through cement or an engine block. Then you want FMJ. I believe the HP and SP is not used in the military because of the Geneva Convention rules. HP caused too much damage for an "ethical" war?:banghead:

 

[RyanM]

The 50 gr JHP will almost definitely not penetrate deep enough to meet FBI requirements, but the 55 gr JSP might. Maybe.

I'd get 1 box of something in the 68-70 gr range if you have a 1:9 barrel, or 75-77 gr for a 1:7, load up one 20 round mag with them, and then keep the rest of your mags loaded with the 55 gr JSP.

Hornady TAP is a good 75 gr load. Dunno what all's good for a 1:9 barrel, though.

 

[Sam Cade]

Hague Accords deal with small arms, the 3rd Geneva convention deals primarily with P.O.Ws and their treatment and WHO is a "legitimate combatant".

 

[rcmodel]

Check out these Federal/ATK tests and draw your own conclusion.

I pitty the fool that gets shot in the chest with a 55 grain varmint bullet.
Because he would be DRT!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=1788790&postcount=1

rcmodel

 

[conw]

http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

Let's put this "Geneva convention" thing to rest. Please.

Now, when the fat guy with the greasy beard who always seems to be leaning on the end of the counter at the local gun store, starts blathering about the Geneva Convention banning hollow point bullets, you can educate him with the right information.

"I believe you mean the Hague Peace Conferences of 1899 and 1907…."

…you can suggest, and then nail him beneath the bill of his CAT Diesel cap with the JAG's recent opinions that 168-grain (and 175-grain) BTHPs and 230-grain SXTs are in… and the Hague accords are o-u-t!

 

[Eyesac]

Unless you need to shoot through cement or an engine block.

LOL. Look out eng blocks! .223 a comin' and they're FMJ!!!!

 

[1911 guy]

My HD choice is a AR carbine loaded with Win. 45gr JHP. Extreme fragmentation in tissue, less danger of overpenetration.

 

[JoeSlomo]

I don't know about 55g .223 for defense.

I DO know that 77g BTHP works WELL for defense and highly recommend it...

 

[Fred Fuller]

I've used 55 gr. JSP (Black Hills) out of a bolt gun on a couple of relatively small Alabama whitetails. Never had one exit on a broadside behind-the-shoulder shot, or neck shot. I don't know what bullets they used. They're lethal enough but I prefer exits with a deer rifle, and quit using the .223. Don't have any experience with the lighter weight JHPs, but I'd figure either should do OK in a defensive role.

With any AR in a defensive engagement I'm going to fire 2-3 quick rounds per target anyway if circumstances permit (per Louis Awerbuck's carbine class). There are old A1 barreled ARs here better suited for lighter bullets, as well as newer faster twist barrels on some of the carbines that do OK with heavier bullets. I don't think it matters that much which ones get used- good hits count most, I think penetration will be adequate with any of the bullets you describe.

lpl

 

[benEzra]

Dr. Gary Roberts, who is from the Fackler deep-penetration school, wrote an article in Police Marksman in which he cited the 55-grain softpoint, as a pretty good police/defensive round, IIRC. Here's the article:

Roberts G.K., "Law Enforcement General Purpose Shoulder Fired Weapons: the Wounding Effects of 5.56mm/.223 Carbines Compared with 12 ga. Shotguns and Pistol Caliber Weapons Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant, Police Marksman, Jul/Aug 1998, pp. 38-45.

I used to keep Federal 40-grain JHP's in my mini-14 when we lived in a mobile home for a while; yes, lack of penetration can be an issue, but there is no rule that says you can only shoot once if the first round fails; I eventually switched to 55-grain JHP when we bought a house.

The 40-grain JHP was a mainstay of many SWAT teams in the early '90s and had a good reputation, so even though most authorities have moved on to heavier rounds for better penetration, if 40-grain was once judged adequate in that role, the heavier 50-grain is probably going to be a pretty effective round for HD. The 55-grain SP should provide significantly more penetration if you value that, though.

 

[Old Guy]

Self defence with a rifle

Let us assume the persons who are causing you anxiety/concern, are 100 yards away? And you fire several rounds at them, the rounds you cited would cause cease and desist, if struck in the body, more than one hit? They are not going to keep being a threat.

Shoot a person in your home, two or three times? They will cease and desist.

People are not elephants!

The above comments are shots fired, not with any legal entity's here.

 

[Southern Shooter]

Fill in the hollow-point cavity?

I used to fill in the cavity on a hollow-point with superglue if I did not want it to expand...that was on pistol ammunition. It worked ok there. Of, course, the velocity from a .223 may not make that an option. I don't know. Wonder if that would effect the accuracy at the 100 yard mark.

 

[soggysod]

i believe that the hollow points to be the better round for home defense.
think about the wound if a bullet goes straight through the chest it creates a small entry and exit wound. if the bullet expands and stops, it releases all of the energy in the cavity creating maximum traum I.E. maximum dead
fmjs work great on the battlefield for 2 reasons, one is good cover and armor necessitate penetration,and the other is it takes 2 soldiers out if one is wounded, the wounded and the one caring for him. if hes dead, well thats just one soldier out.
also think of in a house the reason to avoid overpenetration, your kids in the next room, your neighbors, cars passing etc. an intruder in the house isnt going to have much more cover than a stud wall or dinner table, and a hollow point wouldnt have much trouble with those.
look at the penetration charts above, and consider that a humans lungs need maybe 1.5" of penetration and a heart 3" full pass thru would only need 10" for most.
all im sayin is that if you are my neighbor i hope you are shooting hollow points!
and dont worry about it not penetrating enough, put a tomato in the hollow cinder block and shoot it with a 22lr. hollow point and see if that dont impress you. now just add about 3thousand feet per second and 1200ft lbs to those results!
at 500 yards that 223 is still carring more speed and energy than that 22lr!