benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
It would seem to me that the higher sectional density of the narrower bullet, rather than the interior ballistics of the cartridge case, would be the dominant factor here?
.308 vs. .30-06 sniper round question
- Thread starter TMM
- Start date
- Status
.308 vs. 30-06
I believe the 308 Win. was originally called the 30-06 improved. Shortened for better feed in full auto mode.Anyone that thinks the .308 can out shoot old venerable hasn't tried loading speers 130 gr.hp on top of a stiff charge of IMR4064.Also deer don't go anywere but down when hit with this fun to shoot pill.
I believe the 308 Win. was originally called the 30-06 improved. Shortened for better feed in full auto mode.Anyone that thinks the .308 can out shoot old venerable hasn't tried loading speers 130 gr.hp on top of a stiff charge of IMR4064.Also deer don't go anywere but down when hit with this fun to shoot pill.
benEzra;
The advantages of B/C & sectional density have been known for quite some time now. Let's say something in excess of 50 years, as I doubt anyone can provide an exact date. Could be in excess of a century, but the point being it's not cutting edge knowledge these days.
However, the new wave cartridge cases, 6mm/.284, the PPC's, etc, post-date the B/C & S/D knowledge. Which would tend to make one think that the development of those cases was fueled by the search for accuracy. The adoption of them would tend to confirm the success of the development.
900F
The advantages of B/C & sectional density have been known for quite some time now. Let's say something in excess of 50 years, as I doubt anyone can provide an exact date. Could be in excess of a century, but the point being it's not cutting edge knowledge these days.
However, the new wave cartridge cases, 6mm/.284, the PPC's, etc, post-date the B/C & S/D knowledge. Which would tend to make one think that the development of those cases was fueled by the search for accuracy. The adoption of them would tend to confirm the success of the development.
900F
Red_SC
Member
idakfan said:
Those bullets can be loaded into .308 cases just as easily as .30-06 cases.
USSR
Member
Don't try this at home, folks. Since various single shot handguns have been chambered in .308, loading a .30-06 AP bullet in a .308 case will bring the Fed's down on you REAL fast. I know it don't make sense, but that's the way it is.
Don
Wrong.
That's NOT the way it is. The ATF has yet to, and most likely won't, classify the .308 Winchester/7.62x51 NATO round as a pistol round, unlike their earlier decision to classify the 7.62x39 as a pistol round. The only reason they did so designate the latter as a pistol round was due to Olympic Arms and their pending debut of the OA-93 autoloading pistol chambered in 7.62x39. That led to the import ban on steel-core 7.62x39 ammo. They weren't really concerned about the single-shot Springfield SASS, Thompson/Center Contenders and Encores, Remington XP-100, Wichita Silhouette, and other single-shot handguns chambered in rifle cartridges. The laws that are on the books concerning AP ammo revolve or focus on handgun chamberings or rounds which there are handguns readily available, and the ATF has left alone those single-shot examples I listed above. The autoloading OA-93 got their panties in a wad, however. Some say it was just a matter of time, because AK-pattern pistols were next on the docket.
Nor was the ATF terribly concerned about the Magnum Research SSP-91/Lone Eagle rotary breech single-shot pistol, which came out right away chambered in .30-06 Springfield.
For the record, federal law does not prohibit one from buying bulk AP .308 caliber bullets (Wideners.com) and loading them into .30-06 Springfield, .308 Winchester, .30-30 Winchester, .300 Savage, .30 BR, .30 Herrett, .300 Whisper, .30 PPC, .300 Win Mag, .300 Remington Ultra Mag, and so forth, there just aren't that many pistols readily available and chambered for them, especially "evil" autoloading versions. Likewise, when you make those handloads, don't sell them. (Which you're not supposed to do anyway, unless you're a Type 6 FFL holder)
Interestingly enough, SS109 and M2 .30 AP ball have been specifically exempted from the list of "AP" ammo, so they can be imported and sold by dealers. Here's the ATF page on the matter:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm
That's NOT the way it is. The ATF has yet to, and most likely won't, classify the .308 Winchester/7.62x51 NATO round as a pistol round, unlike their earlier decision to classify the 7.62x39 as a pistol round. The only reason they did so designate the latter as a pistol round was due to Olympic Arms and their pending debut of the OA-93 autoloading pistol chambered in 7.62x39. That led to the import ban on steel-core 7.62x39 ammo. They weren't really concerned about the single-shot Springfield SASS, Thompson/Center Contenders and Encores, Remington XP-100, Wichita Silhouette, and other single-shot handguns chambered in rifle cartridges. The laws that are on the books concerning AP ammo revolve or focus on handgun chamberings or rounds which there are handguns readily available, and the ATF has left alone those single-shot examples I listed above. The autoloading OA-93 got their panties in a wad, however. Some say it was just a matter of time, because AK-pattern pistols were next on the docket.
Nor was the ATF terribly concerned about the Magnum Research SSP-91/Lone Eagle rotary breech single-shot pistol, which came out right away chambered in .30-06 Springfield.
For the record, federal law does not prohibit one from buying bulk AP .308 caliber bullets (Wideners.com) and loading them into .30-06 Springfield, .308 Winchester, .30-30 Winchester, .300 Savage, .30 BR, .30 Herrett, .300 Whisper, .30 PPC, .300 Win Mag, .300 Remington Ultra Mag, and so forth, there just aren't that many pistols readily available and chambered for them, especially "evil" autoloading versions. Likewise, when you make those handloads, don't sell them. (Which you're not supposed to do anyway, unless you're a Type 6 FFL holder)
Interestingly enough, SS109 and M2 .30 AP ball have been specifically exempted from the list of "AP" ammo, so they can be imported and sold by dealers. Here's the ATF page on the matter:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm
idakfan
Member
Gewehr98 said:
Great post
Does anybody have links to other dealers who sell .30 AP bullets?
Red_SC
Member
USSR said:
I have heard that this was a myth also, but never followed it up to find out for sure. I don't have a need for AP rounds, so I've never loaded any, though I've thought about getting some 'just because'.
For sources, http://gibrass.com/ has some sometimes, but not at the moment.
- Status
