.38 Special 3-inch barrel performance?

AJC1 said:
It has a longer bearing surface and should resist tumbling better. It's ideal for this senerio because it was specifically designed for short barreled pistols. If I could find any Speer products I would be happy, but these are not something I need. I'm looking for their hotcore 3030bullet.
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I see. Do you watch the Discord Reloading feed? If not I'll let you know if any pop up.

Interestingly, the most consistent snub hollow point I ever tested was the Federal 180 gr sjhp factory load. It went into more of a rounded shape but always expanded and penetrated well in various media. It would launch at just 950 fps. Blast & flash was less than 125 & 158 gr loads.

But they haven't made them in awhile. 357G is the Federal name for them.

I'm down to my last 6, and those are what's in my Colt.

I'd forgotten I'd stopped carrying the Hornady's because I'm not sure what primer they use. I hear they use whatever they have on hand.

I noticed my Colt doesn't leave much of a strike in CCI primers though I've fired hundreds in that gun. Then I finally had one need two hits to fire and I've gone to Federals for that gun.

So I decided not to carry those Critical Duty's after noticing the small primer strikes.

I've fired more Remington ammo (factory) in that gun than anything and they're fine.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
It’s not just the hardness, it’s the alloy: 2-2-96 is a “balanced” lead alloy that resists flame melt but stays soft enough to mushroom. It’s a good bullet. I really wouldn’t run it faster than 850fps, though.
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Why not run it a little faster?
I want to be sure it expands.
 
Bfh_auto said:
It's formulated for expansion in low velocity applications. Speed can hinder proper expansion by causing the expanded ring to tear off. Putting you back at a waddcutter.
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^^^This, exactly! ^^^

In so many ways, the Super-Vel era has ruined so many working, good ballistics rules by brainwashing people into thinking speed is the only variable in the terminal ballistics workshop worth considering. It's not. Impact velocity does matter but is only one small part of the overall equation. The type of alloy matters more than the final Brinell hardness number; the constituent metals in an alloy matter more than the lubricant. Lyman #2 Alloy has been popular since the beginning of the smokeless era for good reason: it's a hard - but not too hard - balanced alloy which resists flame cutting and expands well on most kinds of game. Are there better alloys for certain tasks? Absolutely! And bullet casters, both commercial and hobbyist, know about and experiment with those alloys constantly. 2-2-96 is a very good close-range game and self-defense alloy because it mushrooms without sheering and is very useful at pistol velocities.
 
Shivahasagun said:
Thanks for that info!

In that case I can use .38 special cases and plenty of CFEP should get me there. Probably wont be necessary to get above +P pressure.
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Do the names J.D. Jones, Lee Jurras, Martin Fackler and Buford Boone mean anything to you? Just curious, since you're following in the footsteps of Jones and Jurras, very closely.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
^^^This, exactly! ^^^

In so many ways, the Super-Vel era has ruined so many working, good ballistics rules by brainwashing people into thinking speed is the only variable in the terminal ballistics workshop worth considering. It's not. Impact velocity does matter but is only one small part of the overall equation. The type of alloy matters more than the final Brinell hardness number; the constituent metals in an alloy matter more than the lubricant. Lyman #2 Alloy has been popular since the beginning of the smokeless era for good reason: it's a hard - but not too hard - balanced alloy which resists flame cutting and expands well on most kinds of game. Are there better alloys for certain tasks? Absolutely! And bullet casters, both commercial and hobbyist, know about and experiment with those alloys constantly. 2-2-96 is a very good close-range game and self-defense alloy because it mushrooms without sheering and is very useful at pistol velocities.
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The new designed mono solids aren't helping because they need max velocity to function well.
 
Shivahasagun said:
Just Mr. Fackler.

Now I've got to research the others, thanks alot! :(:D
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I still have about two dozen J.D.Jones branded/signed 240gr. LSWC .430" bullets for .44Spl - yes, Special! Before Jones was the champion Lee Jurras' new and improved Super-Vel ultra-light, ultra-fast jacketed hollow point school of thought, he was a Master of the College of Big, Slow, LARGE Meplat Thumpers.
 
AJC1 said:
The new designed mono solids aren't helping because they need max velocity to function well.
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I've got some Lehigh Xtreme Defense for 9mm Mak, .357Mag and .45ACP (.364", .357" and .451" respectively). I'm going to follow the loading recommendations of the manufacturer but I'm sticking to the lower end data, which is at the top-end of standard velocity, if I'm reading it right. A hydrodynamic reaction is going to take place at any velocity above flow currents. That's simple hydromechanics. The laws of physics ignore ballistics, not the other way around. In practice, any projectile impacting an aqueous body will cause a hydrodynamic reaction. Venturi/Bernoulli effects create trauma regions and trauma results in shock. That's why the promoters of copper solids and shaped nose bullets are also protagonists of "Speed!" - because they never actually read Bernoulli.
 
fxvr5 said:
why are you insisting to use 38 special cases in a 357 magnum chamber? Just use 357 cases.
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I do it too. Plenty of reasons.
38 brass is cheaper and easier to find.
357 brass comes at a premium if you can find it.
In a short barrel gun 4 inch and less you are likely better off with faster powders that don't fill the case up even half way.
Several grains of faster powder will be more consistent in the smaller cases.
My 38+p+ load is 6.5gr of CBI with a 125gr bullet. CBI burns about like universal but fluffy like trail boss, fills 38 cases about 2/3.
 
N555 said:
I do it too. Plenty of reasons.
38 brass is cheaper and easier to find.
357 brass comes at a premium if you can find it.
In a short barrel gun 4 inch and less you are likely better off with faster powders that don't fill the case up even half way.
Several grains of faster powder will be more consistent in the smaller cases.
My 38+p+ load is 6.5gr of CBI with a 125gr bullet. CBI burns about like universal but fluffy like trail boss, fills 38 cases about 2/3.
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What's CBI? An acronym for a powder but I'm not sure which.

Yea, I thought moving from an LCR .357 2 inch to Colt .357 3 inch and its heavier weight meant I could take advantage of what .357 has to offer. But I'm learning it takes a longer barrel, really. And a heavier gun if you want fire it alot.
 
Shivahasagun said:
What's CBI? An acronym for a powder but I'm not sure which.

Yea, I thought moving from an LCR .357 2 inch to Colt .357 3 inch and its heavier weight meant I could take advantage of what .357 has to offer. But I'm learning it takes a longer barrel, really. And a heavier gun if you want fire it alot.
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A 357 magnum with a barrel less than 4" is just an expensive 9mm with low capacity. The advantage that it does have with shooting heavier bullets is often bypassed to shoot 9mm class bullets.
 
AJC1 said:
A 357 magnum with a barrel less than 4" is just an expensive 9mm with low capacity. The advantage that it does have with shooting heavier bullets is often bypassed to shoot 9mm class bullets.
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The "FBI/Treasury Load" - 158gr. antimonial lead (swaged or cast) SWC-HP at or near 850fps in a .38Spl +P. Same bullet in a .357Mag case over 6gr. of Unique makes the same 850fps. It just plain works, even from a 3" barrel.
 
So, would a @180 gr sjhp or lead hollow point offer similar performance of a 158 gr but with a little more penetration given a similar velocity? (850 fps)

And,

Do other lighter jhp's (115-125 gr) in the .355-.357 diameter (talking to you, 9x19) have the same issue as the 125 gr xtp? That is slipping sideways and / or easily deflected from the desired path (straight) after striking the target?
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
The "FBI/Treasury Load" - 158gr. antimonial lead (swaged or cast) SWC-HP at or near 850fps in a .38Spl +P. Same bullet in a .357Mag case over 6gr. of Unique makes the same 850fps. It just plain works, even from a 3" barrel.
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I never claimed it wasn't effective, hell I don't want to be shot with even a 22 short. Snub magnum is a me issue, I just can't reconcile the idea.
 
amd6547 said:
I like the 9mm just fine. But I have yet to find a factory 9mm load that sends a 125gn bullet at 1400fps like my 3” GP100 can.
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Balistically that's not enough difference to make a difference. It definitely doesn't carry enough energy to knock down rams at 200. I've done it a few times with a 686 but holdover and windage is just a guess. A 120ish grain load is an up close load and is not markedly more "powerful". If your into that 9mm major will get you there.
 
Shivahasagun said:
So, would a @180 gr sjhp or lead hollow point offer similar performance of a 158 gr but with a little more penetration given a similar velocity? (850 fps)

And,

Do other lighter jhp's (115-125 gr) in the .355-.357 diameter (talking to you, 9x19) have the same issue as the 125 gr xtp? That is slipping sideways and / or easily deflected from the desired path (straight) after striking the target?
Click to expand...
It depends. There are no absolutes. I originally thought you were doing all this as an academic exercise knowing the whole time terminal wound ballistics is not predictable. Bullet companies spend big money testing and retesting new designs on hunting trips and in laboratories. The number one factor is bullet placement. Period. Now, if you’re looking for a magic bullet, you’re not going to find one.
Having said all that, the 158gr LSWC-HP +P has a long track record in police use and the results are generally well respected. The problems and benefits of a hyper-speed lightweight bullet is also a matter of considerable study.
Maybe someone else knows the magic you’re looking for but it’s not me. Build some rounds, try them out, go with what you can hit a small bouncing ball in the dark wearing beer goggles after running a few wind sprints with.
 
Shivahasagun said:
What's CBI? An acronym for a powder but I'm not sure which.

Yea, I thought moving from an LCR .357 2 inch to Colt .357 3 inch and its heavier weight meant I could take advantage of what .357 has to offer. But I'm learning it takes a longer barrel, really. And a heavier gun if you want fire it alot.
Click to expand...
CBI is a single base smokeless powder made by General dynamics for use in 155mm torpedo ignitors.
Burn speed between universal and hp38, but is real fluffy like trailboss, ideal for large case capacity lower pressure rounds, also works great in 115gr 9x19mm.
 
N555 said:
CBI is a single base smokeless powder made by General dynamics for use in 155mm torpedo ignitors.
Burn speed between universal and hp38, but is real fluffy like trailboss, ideal for large case capacity lower pressure rounds, also works great in 115gr 9x19mm.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a great cowboy action powder. I don't shoot those games but I love the guns they use. A fluffy powder would be good in my 45c.
 
amd6547 said:
I like the 9mm just fine. But I have yet to find a factory 9mm load that sends a 125gn bullet at 1400fps like my 3” GP100 can.
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9 Major
356 TSW
357 SIG (already mentioned)
38 Super
9X23 Winchester
9X25 Dillon
(The last 3 require a longer case than a 9mm)
 
As I said, I like 9mm just fine. I started packing a 9mm when most cops had 38's in their holsters...a war surplus Nazi Radom P35, later a Browning Hipower.
I still rely upon a G26 and a G17 for my 9mm needs.
But, I also like the 357magnum. Pre plandemic, I could buy 100rds of Rem UMC 125gn SJHP for $50.
And I also find the 3" barrel to be the sweet spot
fxvr5 said:
9 Major
356 TSW
357 SIG (already mentioned)
38 Super
9X23 Winchester
9X25 Dillon
(The last 3 require a longer case than a 9mm)
Click to expand...
 
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