450 Marlin or other medium/big bore

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LittleBear

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Anyone with practical experience with the 450 Marlin or thoughts on other big bore cartridges?

The wife has "approved" my latest cost justification, and I've got room for only a couple more in the safe. I lack only in the big bore calibers, and though I've never failed with my various .30's on a wide-range of critters, I just don't feel complete....

General requirements:
I don't like being beaten to death sighting it in or working up loads

I like widely available cartridges and not something I have to special order from Midway every time I feel the urge - I handload, but with age, comes brain-farts...

I'm not a "it's gotta be a magnum" kinda guy, I just preferred cartridges that typically don't need the extra barrel room

Needs to be a repeating firearm, bolt or lever preferred - I'm leaning toward a quick handling lever, but not committed
 
Hi LB
Well, if you want something big, but not that much recoil, might I suggest a Marlin 1894 in either 44 magnum or .45 Colt. I became quite enamored with 44 caliber after I found out I could make .430" bullets out of .40S&W cases. I used my .44 rifle for deer hunting last season and it put venison in the freezer. One shot at 60 yards with a 240 grain hollowpoint was all it took. Don't have a spent bullet to show though because I got 100% penetration. But, the deer just took one big leap in the air and dropped within 30 feet of where I shot him.

If I want anything with more power than that, I'd go with a .444. With a 300 grain bullet it excedes .45-70 power levels. As an alternative though, you might want to look at a Puma rifle in .454 Casull. You can shoot .45 Colts in it for light loads, or load hot handloads that equal those of .45-70 also.
Michael
 
Yep, the .444 fits the ticket. Not so much on the .44 or .45 Colt, I've got that range covered with the other guns in my battery. Anyone else have good thoughts on the .444?

Looking for something with a lot of oomph, and something folks have positive experience in the field with, including any rifle/cartridge combination's. I'm recoil tolerant, but the 458 WinMag is not an option for you masochist's out there...
 
My understanding is the 450 is simply the 45/70 with a belt, loaded at higher pressures. The belt to keep noobs from maiming themselves. I've looked at both the 45/70 and 444, like them both. 45/70 seems to be a little more available. Looking hard at the 450, but don't know anyone that I can "borrow" from at this point to try it for myself, that's why the original question.
 
I like widely available cartridges and not something I have to special order from Midway every time I feel the urge - I handload, but with age, comes brain-farts...
Click to expand...
45/70 I just bought one in a Marlin 1895 guide gun, and I love it.
 
LittleBear; I am a 444 nut, and have built a modified 444XLR...16 1.2" barrel and opened up the cartridge cycling spaces to accept a longer OAL for improved performance. Many other modifications were made to this gun, and it is a very sweet hunting arm. The barrel has been lapped and the accuracy with cast bullets is amazing. For smaller game like deer, all that is needed is a 300 grain cast at 1850...an easy load to shoot. The 444 will take just about anything that walks at top end loadings, as will the 45-70, and the 450 Marlin....so, its kind of a toss up...whatever trips your trigger! Go to: beartoothbullets.com, and then go to the "tech" section. There are three articles in there that discuss heavy bullet use in the 444. They are very interesting and useful for those wishing to obtain top performance in a stock 444 Marlin levergun. If you have any other questions, please feel free to PM me.
 

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LittleBear said:
I like widely available cartridges and not something I have to special order from Midway every time I feel the urge - I handload, but with age, comes brain-farts...
Click to expand...

I've handled, shot and seen used on game the Marlin 444, 450 and 45/70 rifles and can't say an unkind word about any of them. Nice solid levers that can all do a job and give you a hoot while about it. That said, I went with the 1895G in 45/70 and have zero regrets, except maybe I now want the Cowboy version as well.

But what I quoted above, that would have me leaning towards the 45/70. The 444 and 450 are a little less prevalent on the shelf, in my experience.
 
i have a winchester 94 timber carbine in 444 marlin and it is a short light weight rifle and just right for walking and hunting. eastbank.
 
Call me ashamed at this point... I forgot all about those Timber Carbines. They came in 444 and 450, did they come in 45/70?

I am more of a Winchester than a Marlin guy, they just fit better and point more naturally for me. Got 3 '94's in various incarnations, and wasn't jumping up and down at the opportunity to get a Marlin, though I know folks that swear by them.

I gotta do a little research now - maybe somebody here can help. Anybody know a good reference location for the Timber Carbine? Were they "real" Winchester's or US Repeating? Quality took a hit and that infernal angle eject thing happened during that reign - not bashing, just not my cup-o-tea.

I may be on a different kind of trophy hunt now...
 
With your stated preferences, I'd go with the 444 or 45-70. The 45-70 especially offers a lot of loading versatility, and ammo can be found in stores more readily than 450 marlin or 444. 450 marlin does not seem to have any advantage over 45-70 for a handloader.
Personally, I went for the 444.
 
The 444 and 450 are a little less prevalent on the shelf, in my experience.
Click to expand...
That is certainly true around here, and served to influence my choice in a big bore. Especially since I no longer reload. The 45/70 has been around for more than a century and doesn't appear to be going away anytime soon. But as stated all are good choices for one reason or another.
 
Get a 45/70. It can be loaded from light to all a sane person would tolerate on the back side of it.

RJ
 
Love my 45/70, nothing like penetrating into the next pig on the longish shots.

As far as the winnies pointing better, I found that to be true with the 30-30, the 45/70 in a marlin 1895 guide gun is my best pointing gun, never really realized it till I shot it right after shooting my 30.06, that thing lines up like it was made for me, and the big bore makes it steady.

Maybe you should think about the reloading, and get a 50-90 instead :evil:
 
All 1886 Winchesters are at least as strong, if not stronger then the Marlin 1895.

And I'll vote for the 45-70 also.

It will do anything the .450 Marlin will do, with much more available and cheaper ammo.

I don't like being beaten to death sighting it in or working up loads
Click to expand...
Unlike the 45-70, there are no .450 Marlin light loads. All factory loads are full power bear stompers.

With a 45-70, you can get anything from "Trapdoor" level loads, to Garrett or Buffalo Bore thunder boomer's.

rc
 
Ouch! - just looked at that GunBroker you sent over chas08. That would require a whole new justification to the "accounting department". Though it does tickle my fancy a bit...

I think that's it - 45/70 that is - I like the cartridge, and I've experienced the wide array of load possibilities with some Marlin's and Ruger's in the past - mild to wild. Just never had occasion to shop for one. Thanks for the experienced insights.

Now I just have to convince Mom to increase my allowance if that GunBroker is typical. I'm on the hunt if ya'll run across one that's not $1500...
 
Watch out for sales at your local shop. I typically shop at www.turners.com in my local area and they had a .45-70 Guide gun on sale a few weeks ago for 550$. By the way, if you're going to get a .45-70 you've just gotta learn to cast for it!

Good luck,
Michael
 
I have a 444 Marlin and I like the gun a lot. I shot a buck this year using a handload of 270 gr Speer Gold Dots. The gun is a 444SS. My brother has a 450 Marlin 1895M XLR. It's also a nice gun and with 350 gr bullets has no more recoil than the 444. However it will handle much heavier bullets if you have a need to shoot some really large game.
 
I had a .450 Marlin barrel on an Encore. I bought before I did my homework. It is a magnum version of the 45/70. It was basically created so that there could be commercially available magnum 45/70 class round that would not fit in a Springfield Trapdoor and grenade it.

I sold the .450 barrel and got a 45/70 barrel. The fun part of this round is that you can load it up or down and you can buy ammo that is mild to wild. I too hate beating myself up trying to sight in a monster round.

I sold the 45/70 barrel and got a Marlin 1895 in a 22" barrel. It is easily my favorite rifle and the one that gets shot the most. I shoot some 1300 fps 300 grain rounds that are mild enough I can shoot 50 at a sitting and not be bruised. Once you learn the trajectory of a round they are very consistent so you can reliably shoot out to 200 yards if you have practiced. If you are really into it you can shoot farther but it takes some practice. I just limit myself to 200 yards.
 
My understanding is the 450 is simply the 45/70 with a belt, loaded at higher pressures.
Click to expand...

Actually the .45-70 has MORE case capacity than the .450 Marlin and can be loaded hotter in a strong action.
 
Marlin 1895G 45-70

I have really enjoyed reloading 45-70 for this rifle. I have not hunted it but it seems to be just about perfect for walking through the brush with. I've mostly shot mild lead 405 and 350 grains, but have also shot up some Lever Action only 405 grain copper jacketed Remingtons as well.

Get a copy of this book and you'll be sold on the 45-70 round:

http://www.amazon.com/Forty-Years-45-Paul-Matthews/dp/0935632840
 
I really like the .450 Marlin. It has ballistics very similar to a hot loaded .45-70, but can also be downloaded. The lack of a rim allows it to be chambered in more compact firearms than the .45-70. It would really shine in a compact bolt action. My 94 BB is doing really well with 420 and 405 grain cast slugs. I'm using a large rear aperture painted with a green circle and a sourdough post front sight painted yellow. It aims very quickly. In fact I've been getting better accuracy speed firing from a kneel than the bench.

That said, supply problems on the brass have been significant. It's much much easier to find .45-70 brass.

Actually the .45-70 has MORE case capacity than the .450 Marlin and can be loaded hotter in a strong action.
Click to expand...

Only a little bit more, and the .450 benefits from the .458x2 American's thick walls and heavy magnum-style belt. It's made to deal with tremendous pressures.

Either way, I'm getting great results from the Cast Performance line of hardcast slugs.
 
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