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80% AR Receivers

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From what I've heard from friends they have purchased these "80% receivers" as chunks of metal because they are not functioning receivers. Whatever you decide to do with them, at the "80%" mark they are not receivers. Until you finish them they are not considered 'guns'. Again, just what I heard.
 
That is correct. A company that sells an 80% paperweight will obtain a raw forging, then perform some work, then send that sample to the BATFE Tech Branch for a ruling. The BATFE will either say it is or isn't a firearm. If it's not, they might do some more machining and send it back until the feds call it a firearm. In that case, they take back the last step, and now have a product to sell.
 
"80% finished" in reality is just a marketing term. It has no legal meaning. If the ATF determines that the hunk of metal can be readily made into a gun, then it is a gun. There's an old rule of thumb that says that if an unfinished receiver can be made into a workable gun in 8 hours or less in a fully equipped machine shop, then you have constructive possession of a gun. By that standard, even a piece of aluminum bar stock could be considered a gun. But, the ATF is too busy to pursue cases like this unless you are on their radar for some other reason.

Beware of "build parties" where a bunch of people get together at a machine shop to complete their "80%" receivers (often supplied by the shop) under the supervision of a machinist. Perhaps, the buyers do no more than press a button on a pre-programmed CNC machine. In a situation like this, the ATF might well take the position that the buyers are actually buying finished receivers without going through an FFL, filling out a Form 4473, passing a NICS check, etc.
 
I would add to beware of Ares armor. Took 8 months and lots of unanswered calls and emails to get one from them. Many people are still out cash.

That said, the current ATF opinon is so long as no machining has been done to the trigger group, it isn't a firearm. Even divots to locate the pins crosses the threshold. Also, you must do ALL the machining yourself.

Reference: http://site.cnc80.com/atf-letter.html
 
When I cam buy a complete one for 70$ why would I pay $120+ for one I have to DIY?

its not like AK flats where they cost 30$ and a complete receiver is $90+
 
When I can buy a complete one for 70$ why would I pay $120+ for one I have to DIY?

Actually, you can get them much cheaper... more like the $30-$40 range. I have one paper weight for every built-out AR that I own. If the government ever says, "register your gun or turn it in", I am going to disassemble the AR and turn in the 4473'd receiver.
 
When I can buy a complete one for 70$ why would I pay $120+ for one I have to DIY?

You can find forged 80% in the white for around $70. Main reason I bought one was to have a rifle without a serial number.

Plus it's a fun project.
 
I have one paper weight for every built-out AR that I own. If the government ever says, "register your gun or turn it in", I am going to disassemble the AR and turn in the 4473'd receiver.

Main reason I bought one was to have a rifle without a serial number.

These quotes nail it. The main reason for buying a "paperweight" or "80%" receiver is paranoia. Otherwise, the economics don't make sense.
 
AlexanderA said:
The main reason for buying a "paperweight" or "80%" receiver is paranoia. Otherwise, the economics don't make sense.

Not just paranoia (which is not unfounded in some states, as bans have been enacted or increased what can create a prohibited person well beyond federal law that result in confiscation at the individual level.)


I have used them to have a CA legal AR pistol.
Under CA law most semi auto pistols need to be on the special roster to be imported or manufactured.
Buying a complete lower as a handgun in California is generally not an option, they are firearms but they are not on the registry and don't have the features required to be on the registry so cannot be sold as a handgun.
Commercial stripped lowers are as a result only useable as long guns.
This means you must purchase/transfer an already completed firearm in pistol configuration manufactured as a pistol specifically for the CA market, or manufacture your own.
While commercial ones have to be set up for CA law, which requires they be in single shot mode to sell, and that they have a fixed magazine, these reduce how many are available in CA, and reduce price competition so most are overpriced.
Additionally most will be in .223, which performs a lot worse than some other options from a short barrel. So you have to pay for a .223/5.56 upper that is then relatively worthless and buy a seperate upper to replace it with a more appropriate caliber. While if you made it yourself you wouldn't have to get the .223/5.56 upper at all (which if you are not going to use as a pistol is then only good for a SBR which is not even an option in CA.)

Making it yourself it still needs to meet the single shot exemption, so when you first make it you will need to make it single shot (it can be changed afterwards.)
It also cannot have a removeable magazine outside the pistol grip and be semi-auto, so it has to have what qualifies as a fixed magazine under the law and requires a tool to remove.
Since it will be a single shot at first, it needs to be built with both of those considerations in mind initially, then if it later is converted to a multiple shot semi auto it still needs to be a 'fixed' magazine under the law and require a 'tool' to remove the magazine but no longer needs to remain single shot.


So it is still not just as simple as making your own, but making your own is step one to legally owning such a pistol in CA.

An additional reason:
I also like to start all my AR type firearms as a pistol since 2011 when the ATF determined you can turn a pistol into a legal rifle (16" barrel 26" min overall length) and back into a pistol. You can never turn what starts out as
rifle into a pistol however. So you can benefit greatly by starting all of your ARs as pistols irregardless of what you want them to be. This gives you long term flexibility.
Now CA law on going from pistol to rifle and back is less clear, so I don't do so. However if I find myself out of state I retain more freedom with such guns to modify them as I wish due to taking the extra steps to make a pistol instead of a rifle initially.
So it simply makes sense to make all your ARs pistols to start, and making them a rifle initially is just tying your hands for no reason.





So in CA at least there is several reasons beyond other places for making your own.
 
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These quotes nail it. The main reason for buying a "paperweight" or "80%" receiver is paranoia. Otherwise, the economics don't make sense.

To get back on the "High Road" and talk about "Legal"...

80% AR-15 lower receivers are the easiest and cheapest way to legally obtain an AR-15 pistol in the state of California. Not the only, assuming you can find a dealer willing to SSE one for you from a manufacturer who is willing to jump through the hoops to provide a single-shot sled and mag-lock, but like I said, the easiest and cheapest.

Again, for those of us with the desire to mill a receiver, it's a fun project. The 80% receivers have the really challenging/expensive machining already done. I don't think your average garage gun smith is going to have the cash to drop on the mag well broach, EDM machine, or high-end water-jet required to accurately cut the mag well out of a blank forging, and, personally, I'd rather not have to carve out the corners with a file by hand.

To get back off the "High Road" and into the mud with you:
If the SKS confiscations in CA are any indication of what could happen, then I feel like it's not paranoia at all.

Edit:
Zoogster beat me to it.
 
It's probably a lot of fun to do the machine work, and end up with a functioning piece of equipment.

When you get done, you have a firearm without a serial number or a paper trail, as long as you didn't pay with a credit card.

I think that works pretty well unless you want to transfer it. I'm not sure what happens then.
 
I'm sure these things make Mayor Mike really unhappy.


I was talking to one of the companies who made a polymer 80% about the feasibility of producing one that could be chemically milled. IE the cast in insert that has to be milled out be made of a material like say, styrene, which could then be milled out by soaking it in lacquer thinner.

They said they had thought of it but the ATF disapproved it. Obviously ATF stands for About Terminating Fun.
 
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