9 mm for self defense?

[dawg23]

SpecOps - I'd stay away from the Glock. The NYPD has had extensive problems with them. Their NYPD Firearms and Tactics Section has a writeup of the problem on the NYPD website.

NYPD also carries Sigs and S&W's in 9mm.

That and the fact that 400,000 Glocks were recalled in 1992.

This from the guy who never heard of James Yeager and who evaluates trainers based on the number of gunfights they have participated in.


SpecOps:
The Glock is an outstanding weapon. ALL weapons, including Glocks, require training and practice on the part of the operator. Glocks, Sigs and Berettas are among the most reliable "out of the box" handguns made. You just need to decide whether or not you want an external safety and if you want a consistent trigger pull (as opposed to a DA/SA trigger).

Re 9mm power:
As Doc Gunn says, in .40 or .45ACP, practically any good JHP round will perform well. In 9mm, one has to be more selective. A GOOD 9mm round will perform as well as most any .40, but a "fair" 9mm round will be FAR inferior to a "fair" .40 round.

The best 9mm rounds with which I am familiar are the Winchester Ranger 127 +P+ (RA9TA) and the Cor Bon "DPX" round. The Remington Golden Sabre is well regarded in the lighter grain bullets (although the 147 gr. bullet is reported to do very well in longer barrels) as is the Speer Gold Dot.


YMMV

 

[MachIVshooter]

It's kind of an under powered cartrige but some people swear by it I don't because I like the 44/40,44,454cas.and maybe the 357 magnum but if it's all you got that's not all right if it is I will cry

Being that the .44/40 is chambered almost exclusively in single action revolvers and leverguns, and the .44 mag and .454 Casull are overly powerful rounds using very heavily constructed bullets and chambered in large to very large wheelguns, I tend to believe you are not thinking in terms of defensive rounds. The only one you have listed that makes sense is the .357. Would the .454 be an effective manstopper? Probably, but the bullet will most definitely exit the target and you ain't gonna get a quick follow-up shot.
I am an experienced handgunner who loves big bores and I cannot empty my SRH .454 in less than 4 seconds, and I certainly can't hit anything with it at that rate of fire.

I have cannons (.44 mag, .454, a .50 AE, etc.) and would not use any of them for SD. My CCW is a 10mm, and it is pushing the upper end of feasible.

 

[S&W 910]

i have a s&w 9mm and a para 45,and if i ever have to reach for one of them i will go for the 9mm every time because of the 16 bullets the 9mm holds

 

[cbsbyte]

Millions of people have lost their lives to 9mm ... so we know it works

Yes, but most where shot in the back of the head.

The 9mm is the most common caliber in the world, it has been a gold standard in europe for 90 years. And the rest of the world in the last 50. There are also many varations of the standard 9x19 caliber, such as: 9x17(.380), 9x18 Mak, 9x21, 9mm Largo, 38 Super, 9mm Styer, 9mm Browning and a few others. If it is such a terrible anemic around as some say it is then it would never have gained this much popularity around the world. It also has been documented the 9mm has more pentration power than a .45. Plus you can load it to equal a good .40 S&W.

 

[gopguy]

The HK VP70Z is an interesting pistol and I have several of them in my collection. Someone incorrectly mentioned earlier that the button behind the trigger was a magazine release. Actually it is a push button safety, the guns have heel releases in typical European fashion. The reason the trigger pull seems so bad it is that the trigger actually takes up all the spring pressure as the sear engages the firing pin and drags it back. All that spring pressure adds up to a heavy pull. Wolf makes a replacement spring that improves this but only so much can be done because of the nature of the beast. The gun was quite an inovation for its day. Predating the Glock 17 by a decade with its polymer frame, it and the HK P9 were the first to use plastic frames. They also employed heavy rifling, you would be challenged to ever shoot it out, especially if you use cast lead bullets. The sights were an interesting arrangement using shadow and light to create a sight picture. It also is a pure blow back 9mm Parabellum. Hence the recoil spring also strikes many as heavy for that reason. A good pistol? Sure, the gun actually sits nicely in the hand, the grip is surprisingly small in width for the mag capacity. The slide will strike you as massive and a bit top heavy as you empty the gun in firing, after all it is blowback. If you are willing to do your part with the trigger, figure out the sight picture it can serve you well. With 18 rounds in the magazine you certainly have a good reserve of ammo, but quick follow up shots with that trigger are a challenge. However I think there are many designs that have surpassed it and I view mine more as plinkers and curiosities than something for serious use. In other words I carry something else.

Tim

 

[middy]

After reading this entire thread: I think my IQ dropped 10 points. :banghead:

 

[Riktoven]

Two in the chest, one in the head. Reassess and repeat if necessary.

Amen.

 

[HD]

9mm can be functional... the 'real' vp70z is a fun gun...

i keep a puny underpowered marginal weak near useless 9mm as my bedside gun ... i have a couple of elephant stoppers (sig 245 /1911a1) but really don't see the need for any more gun for wimpy little protomonkeys...
vp870z came with a shoulderstock that activated the FA internals... machinepistol anyone ?