= $95 = Viridian Serac 6-24x50 (30mm tube) - Natchez Tax Refund Sale

[Spats McGee]

Just sprang for one myself, now I gotta buy a rifle to put it on

I’m sure we can find SOMEONE around here to help you pick out a rifle. We’re a big ol’ bunch of enablers!

 

[Spats McGee]

20 MOA will do fine at 100 yards and in, but you'll likely need 30 MOA to get closer to 300 if you think you ever will. Of course this also depends on how much elevation the scope has, but 30 MOA won't hurt a thing, and will get you farther out.

10/22 barrel droop is a well known issue and Rimfire Central along with many THR members have suggested recommended fixes.

I first tried to see if I could compensate with scope turret adjustment but even with vertical/elevation adjustment maxed out, I still needed to compensate by using reticle lines.

Tactical Solutions X-Ring V-block (Stainless steel, not aluminum) was one of several recommended fixes and IMO better secures the barrel to receiver for reducing group size. TS X-Ring V-block did improve but the scope turret was still maxed out with me using less of reticle lines for compensation.

EGW 20 MOA picatinny rail was one of primary recommendations (In lieu of receiver/barrel replacement/threading) which was much more cost effective solution as I was working on the "Accurizing 22LR on the cheap" thread. And yes, 20 MOA rail returned the scope cross hair back to center of vertical/elevation turret adjustment.

Looking back knowing what I know, I would still get the Tactical Solutions X-Ring V-block and EGW 20 MOA picatinny scope rail for another 10/22 regardless scope used as most 30mm tube scopes have 40 MOA turret adjustment (Why I chose Viridian Serac with 30mm tube and 40 MOA adjustment over Burris FF E1 1" tube with 30 MOA turret adjustment).

For T/CR22, because of built-in picatinny scope rail on the receiver, I chose to go with Vortex Strike Eagle with 80 MOA turret adjustment. Could I have used Strike Eagle on the 10/22 instead of 20 MOA rail? Sure, but $95 for Viridian Serac (I paid $150) and $36 for 20 MOA rail is much cheaper solution than $300 Strike Eagle - https://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-strike-eagle-riflescopes.aspx


I agree. But most of my shooting is done at 50 yards for groups/ammunition comparison testing with occasional 100 yard groups.

I think I’m just going to go ahead and put an EGW 30MOA rail on while I have everything apart.

I appreciate all the input I have gotten on this.

ETA: When did 10/22 barrel droop become a thing? I’d never heard of it until very recently.

 

[LoonWulf]

I think I’m just going to go ahead and put an EGW 30MOA rail on while I have everything apart.

I appreciate all the input I have gotten on this.

ETA: When did 10/22 barrel droop become a thing? I’d never heard of it until very recently.

It's always been a thing to some degree, some guns and barrels do it worse than others. I think it's become more noticed by the general public because of longer distances, and more precision oriented users.
Higher magnifications go hand in hand with that also.

Most of my old 10/22s were ok with the optics and jobs i asked them to do.

The one I epoxied in had an unusually loose receiver fit, so even with the relatively wide adjustment range of the 2-7 i had on it, i ran out of up. I could also shove it off line by pushing on the side of the barrel.

I should also add i havent put together/owned a 10/22 since 08, so I'm really not at all familiar with the newer ones.

 

[Spats McGee]

It's always been a thing to some degree, some guns and barrels do it worse than others. I think it's become more noticed by the general public because of longer distances, and more precision oriented users.
Higher magnifications go hand in hand with that also.

Most of my old 10/22s were ok with the optics and jobs i asked them to do.

The one I epoxied in had an unusually loose receiver fit, so even with the relatively wide adjustment range of the 2-7 i had on it, i ran out of up. I could also shove it off line by pushing on the side of the barrel.

I should also add i havent put together/owned a 10/22 since 08, so I'm really not at all familiar with the newer ones.

Yeah, my 1st 10/22 has been a Killer of Soup Cans, so even if that barrel droops, I have never noticed. I’m trying to build a bit more of a precision rifle with the Sporter, though.

I’ve never put a 10/22 together. That Sporter is my 1st!

 

[LoonWulf]

There fun, lego guns....not as precise as ARs but a little easier to work on......

With all the new aftermarket options, perhaps its time i try again.

 

[LiveLife]

When did 10/22 barrel droop become a thing? I’d never heard of it until very recently.

Been shooting 10/22 since the 80s and didn't hear about barrel droop until I started accurizing my Collector #3 that did not come with a barrel band and worked to free float the barrel.

Apparently CPC started addressing 10/22 barrel droop issue since 1994 - https://www.ct-precision.com/ruger10-22.html

"Receivers hole is measured and new area on shank is cut to fit hole with a line to line fit to eliminate barrel droop"​

It's really case of barrel to receiver play that gets aggravated by V block pulling bottom of barrel to move POI down further. When I started spending time on RFC, I became aware of it with early solutions to counter it like this - https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/gunsmither-block-dont-shy-away.438345/

Aftermarket 10/22 receiver, match barrels with slightly larger shanks to require freezer/oven for tighter fit were non-machining solutions.

Then came V-blocks with adjustable bolt to push up on bottom of barrel - https://eabco.com/adjustable-tension-v-block-for-ruger-10-22-barrel-assembly/

And I opted to go with Tactical Solutions X-Ring V-block thinking stainless steel construction (Instead of aluminum) with full width push up on bottom of barrel (Instead of a bolt) would provide more rigid and secure support for the barrel - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004730095/?pid=389660

So yes, 10/22 "barrel droop" is a thing but there are solution options.

The one I epoxied in had an unusually loose receiver fit

When I installed KSA bull barrel to T/CR22 receiver, I noticed tighter, very snug barrel shank to receiver fit (Almost had to twist fit snug). (KSA bull barrel will slide right into 10/22 receiver)

So when I order extra bull barrels (I am thinking E.R. Shaw and Green Mountain), I am planning to use T/CR22 as the test bed receiver and build it up as more accurate testing platform.

 

[Walkalong]

ETA: When did 10/22 barrel droop become a thing? I’d never heard of it until very recently.

Me either. We just shot ours and were happy, but we didn't have fat add on barrels.

 

[Laphroaig]

I think I’m just going to go ahead and put an EGW 30MOA rail on while I have everything apart.

Elevation turret turns max of 7 turns so 6x7=42 so my guess is Viridian Serac has 40 MOA elevation adjustment.

Is that 30 MOA rail going to allow you to shoot at normal .22 ranges i.e. 50 yards? I'm assuming @LiveLife 's calculation translates to 20 MOA each way from center. You might get lucky and be totally bottomed out at 50. Time will tell.

 

[LiveLife]

I think I’m just going to go ahead and put an EGW 30MOA rail on while I have everything apart.

Is that 30 MOA rail going to allow you to shoot at normal .22 ranges i.e. 50 yards? I'm assuming @LiveLife 's calculation translates to 20 MOA each way from center. You might get lucky and be totally bottomed out at 50. Time will tell.

Good question.

FYI at 50 yards, using Ruger factory picatinny rail I was maxed out on Viridian Serac vertical/elevation turret adjustment and was using reticle lines for holdover and EGW 20 MOA rail put the crosshair back to center of vertical/elevation turret adjustment.

 

[Spats McGee]

Is that 30 MOA rail going to allow you to shoot at normal .22 ranges i.e. 50 yards? I'm assuming @LiveLife 's calculation translates to 20 MOA each way from center. You might get lucky and be totally bottomed out at 50. Time will tell.

That *is* a good question. When I have an answer, I’ll try to remember to report back.

 

[LiveLife]

When did 10/22 barrel droop become a thing? I’d never heard of it until very recently.

Me either.

For those curious about 10/22 "barrel droop" - https://www.rimfirecentral.com/thre...4316&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-2394316

"Understanding Barrel Droop ... 'Barrel droop' refers to a downward angling of the barrel in relation to the receiver, and is an inherent result of the Ruger 10/22's barrel attachment system, known as the "V-Block" ... has a single point of contact ... As the two (2) V-Block screws are tightened into the action lug the barrel is pulled downward, inducing barrel droop ... Barrel droop should not be mistaken for 'action tipping'...​

​

Does my 10/22 have it? ... Like it or not, barrel droop is an inherent result of the 10/22's V-Block barrel attachment system so yeah, your 10/22 has it ...​

​

[Some] people ... 'have never had any problems with their gun'. WTH? ...​

​

I had an epiphany regarding people's perceptions about barrel droop ... unless someone routinely shoots their 10/22 at 100 yards and farther and/or has run out of elevation he or she may not have encountered/discovered/realize the existence of barrel droop ... Bear in mind that even if you don't run out of [scope] adjustment that doesn't mean that there isn't a 'problem' ... For low to mid-range scopes ($40-$600+) that are more accurate in the middle of their adjustment range its best to keep the adjustments 'in the middle'. Barrel droop can be a barrier in this endeavor ...​

​

Elimination of barrel droop - Elimination is better than compensation, and the best way to eliminate barrel droop is to thread the receiver. Not only will you use less elevation to zero, but you will have more "travel on tap" for distance shooting ... with a 15 or 20 MOA base and a scope with lots of travel and/or a tactical reticle you'll be able to reach out to 300 yards or so ...​

​

Aside from the elimination of barrel droop, another key advantage of a threaded-in barrel is consistency. A rigidly-attached, threaded barrel will always remain in alignment with the receiver from shot-to-shot. The barrel-to-receiver alignment will not change, providing consistency. < And instead of having my receiver/barrel machined, I elected to use Tactical Solutions X-ring V-block to enhance barrel-to-receiver mating >​

​

... You can gain back some of your "lost" elevation by using a Tactical Solutions 15 MOA Picatinny Rail, or an EGW 20 MOA 10/22 Extended Picatinny Rail. While compensation for barrel droop is not what these rails were designed for, if they help someone compensate for their 10/22's barrel droop who cares?"​

​

Much more about "barrel droop" at the link.

 

[Laphroaig]

FYI at 50 yards, using Ruger factory picatinny rail I was maxed out on Viridian Serac vertical/elevation turret adjustment and was using reticle lines for holdover and EGW 20 MOA rail put the crosshair back to center of vertical/elevation turret adjustment.

Interesting. The reason that I posted was quite the opposite of yours. I had a 20 MOA rail and my 50 yd. zero put me at the extreme bottom of my elevation range. It made me uncomfortable and I took it off and put on a flat rail. As I look back I've never thought twice about zeroing a .22 at 50 yards with standard mounts and scopes that generally would be considered inexpensive. I've never owned a 10/22 tho.

 

[Walkalong]

There's a 20MOA rail on my Vudoo and my Tract scope had 13.9 Mils of elevation above the 50 yard zero with it.

We shot past 300 yards one day and I had to dial that and hold another .5 Mil, so it worked, and most plinkers are
not going to shoot that far. So, 20 MOA and that scope got me to around 300, but that's about it. A different scope
could be more or less depending on the internal elevation available. You like to stay as centered in the scope as you can.

I swapped scopes out the other day and put the PST Gen III 5-25x50 back on it, and I don't remember how much elevation
over zero it has. I'm getting that rifle ready for a youngster to shoot a match with one of these days, and wanted to put
the Tract on a rifle I'll be shooting in competition. It replaced a Burries XTR III. Great glass, but harder to use for old eyes/hands.
Excellent scope though. My buddy Jeff would buy it from me if I'd sell it.

 

[LiveLife]

UPDATE: Two Viridian Seracs were delivered today.

Upon initial examination, new Seracs appear to be the same scope compared to "old" $150 version. Same clear and sharp lens right to the edge and correct 50/100 yard parallax focus.

I did notice turrets were remarkably tighter with definitely more positive "clicks" (Not as Arken EP5 positive clicks but better than Vortex Strike Eagle 4-24x50/Athlon Argos 10-40x56 turret clicks).

Maybe the turret tracking has improved? Will see when I repeat turret "box test" at 100 yards - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12194385

And the zoom/focus rings were also slightly tighter yet easy to rotate. Side focus parallax knob felt the same.

If the new Seracs perform like the old Serac with improved turret tracking, I will be very happy and may buy more before Natchez closes them out.

Unboxing - Instead of old flip box, new box with same size opens at the end (Likely done to reduce cost) with same contents of documentation, Viridian sticker, lens wipe and Allen wrench for turrets.



Old Serac on top shows model "1220" with "MADE IN CHINA" sticker. New Serac on bottom shows model "0124" with "NITROGEN GAS PORT" sticker. (I haven't cleaned up the scope ring residue after PIF them to @Spats McGee)



Here's old Serac LRR reticle markings which match 1/8 MOA turret markings of 0-14 for elevation and 7-0/0-7 for windage - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...z-tax-refund-sale.929399/page-2#post-12877590



And here's new Serac VFD-2 reticle markings. Having used the reticle for 22LR, especially for holdovers, new larger and expanded lines all the way to the edge of lens will definitely help with holdover when using with flat scope rail instead of canted/20 MOA rail.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

My second one arrived today.

 

[conan32120]

Y'all keep talking .22 lr, ain't they capable of withstanding centerfire recoil? I was hoping to use it on a .308 or maybe something a bit less punishing

 

[LiveLife]

Y'all keep talking .22 lr, ain't they capable of withstanding centerfire recoil? I was hoping to use it on a .308 or maybe something a bit less punishing

I have been setup to conduct 0.1 gr incremental 100 yard testing while reloading at the range/field for 55/62/69/75 gr (For "brute force" exhaustive work up) out of new 18"/20" .223 Wylde fluted barrel uppers with H335, TAC, BL-C(2) and StaBall Match but it's been pouring rain. (Just trying to find SR primers and powder has been a 3 county multi-month scavenger hunt without success ... I am happy to report, I am now well stocked on Fiocchi SR primers and powders ... Thank you Natchez!)

Was hoping I already finished update of 22LR 50/100 yard testing of 47 brands/weights/lots but yup, rain ... And since 10/22 Collector #3 minus receiver was sent to @irishlad, I am contemplating E.R. Shaw or Green Mountain bull barrel in 16.5"/18"/20" length. If I don't get a replacement barrel before range testing, I will borrow KSA 16.5" bull barrel from T/CR22. (And my PCC load testing with Just Right carbine and 9mm/40S&W/45ACP conversion kits is going further down the list )

On my next range trip, I can install Viridian Serac on the AR/PCC to do some testing ... Specifically turret "box test".

 

[LiveLife]

Unboxing of new Serac continued from post #89 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...z-tax-refund-sale.929399/page-4#post-12880309

VFD-2 reticle

My reticle.

My "old" Serac reticle looks like the pictured reticle in post #35 but slightly different. It could be that they added more numbered markings on top vertical marks instead of just lines with change in numbering ... will take comparison pictures of old reticle vs new reticle.

So we now know what VFD-2 reticle is.

Here's old Serac LRR reticle markings which match 1/8 MOA turret markings of 0-14 for elevation and 7-0/0-7 for windage - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...z-tax-refund-sale.929399/page-2#post-12877590

Looks like it's similar to Nightforce MOAR (Minute of Angle Reticle) Second Focal Plane FCR-1 reticle - https://www.nightforceoptics.com/technology/reticles/fcr-1-reticle/

And here's new Serac VFD-2 reticle markings. Having used the reticle for 22LR, especially for holdovers, new larger and expanded lines all the way to the edge of lens will definitely help with holdover when using with flat scope rail instead of canted/20 MOA rail.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Mine has the reticle like in the 2nd pic.

 

[LiveLife]

VFD-2 reticle

Mine has the reticle like in the 2nd pic.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable with reticles could explain the two reticle types.

Am I close in calling LRR reticle "MOAR (Minute of Angle Reticle) Second Focal Plane FCR-1 reticle"? And VFD-2 looks like LRR but more expanded with reticle lines all the way to the edge?

Still haven't found what "VFD" stands for.

 

[Mauser lover]

Variable Frequency Drive, but that's probably the wrong context.

Maybe they produced these reticles on the machine that was using the VFD. As opposed to the other machine across the shop.

Very Fine Details?
Veritably Funky Doohickey?

 

[rdnktrkr]

I've had a couple in the cart for the last couple of days and just noticed they have free shipping on $100 optic order, I couldn't find anything optic related that I needed so I just ordered 3 more, I have a couple of rifles that I can try them on and a Benjiman air rifle that needs a new optic, looks like a good deal for a good SFP MOA scope.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I've had a couple in the cart for the last couple of days and just noticed they have free shipping on $100 optic order, I couldn't find anything optic related that I needed so I just ordered 3 more, I have a couple of rifles that I can try them on and a Benjiman air rifle that needs a new optic, looks like a good deal for a good SFP MOA scope.

Are they air gun rated?

 

[rdnktrkr]

I don't know, guess I can check with them, If not I can put them on some of the Savages I purchased during the Walmart clearance sale, I'll be spending about 2 or 3 times on optics to what I have in the guns after the rebates.

 

[rdnktrkr]

One thing I'm not happy with was Natchez only had shipping with FedEx, I'm assuming because I added some SK 22lr to try in my Bergara. I'm not a fan of FedEx around here, I've not had good experiences with them nor has my neighbors.