Why not make multiple versions with different firearms and then call in some 'gun neutral or gun ignorant' focus groups and get their opinions? We can debate all we want, but I think getting the 'voices' from those with whom we are trying to communicate the message is important too. Just my two cents...
A question of readiness
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
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So lets see....we're then just suppose to be blind sheeple and accept the poster for it is all in the name of coming together?
If the point of the poster is to preach to the choir, then its fine.
If its suppose to get those who don't like guns, or indifferent about guns to "come over to our side" then I think its a wrong choice of firearm.
Of course this is what tvone uses, and that's cool. I don't think your average person though would be looking for that setup.
My opinion is what is it is. YMMV
VPLthrneck
Member
I guess most of the non-gun owners that I'm stationed with aren't average then. When we get to talking about guns at work, the common question from non-owners and even fence sitters is that they want to own/shoot an AR. They even express shock that several of us don't. To them an AR is what the average person should own.
Oleg, great pic.
tvone, nice rifle.
siglite
Member
hahahah
It looks like we not only need to de-sensitize and demystify "Evil Black OMGZORZ SKEERY" rifles to soccer moms, but THR members as well.
I like the poster.
It looks like we not only need to de-sensitize and demystify "Evil Black OMGZORZ SKEERY" rifles to soccer moms, but THR members as well.
I like the poster.
tvone
Member
5.56mm is not a "High Powei"round. The distance in a house will keep even FMJ within the fragmentation threshold of 2700fps. You might need pinpoint accuracy and not the wide pattern of a "cut down" shotgun. Why would an AR be a good choice for a new shooter than a shotgun?
1) Easy to use
2) Less recoil
3) More accurate
4) More capacity
Red dot and laser make it easier for everyone in the house to make a good shot. Everyday people should be encouraged to use the most effective tools they can get.
edit: btw, tvone, why would you not want to sweep someone with white light but be ok with sweeping them with a laser? (not to mention the muzzle)
I use the laser as an aiming device, not to identify targets. It does not give enough light to verify a face. If my laser is on a target, it's about to get shot after I identified it as a threat. I'll I.D. first with a light.
1) Easy to use
2) Less recoil
3) More accurate
4) More capacity
Red dot and laser make it easier for everyone in the house to make a good shot. Everyday people should be encouraged to use the most effective tools they can get.
edit: btw, tvone, why would you not want to sweep someone with white light but be ok with sweeping them with a laser? (not to mention the muzzle)
I use the laser as an aiming device, not to identify targets. It does not give enough light to verify a face. If my laser is on a target, it's about to get shot after I identified it as a threat. I'll I.D. first with a light.
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oneslowgun
Member
The poster is just fine as it is. In fact, it is just the exact thing we should be promoting.
tvone, good luck educating them. a suppressed ar15 in 223 is about the perfect HD weapon.
in fact, I suspect the main reason handguns are so popular for HD these days is so many younger people only own a handgun for ccw.
oleg, nice work.
when i saw the picture, my first thought was, "hey, another lefty".... followed by, "his watch is on his right hand... oleg must have reversed the image"... then, "where's the ejection port??". i guess some people just wear their watches on the other hand.
siglite, no doubt. but then, we've always had enough to put together our own 'gun ignorant' focus groups. you can lead a horse to water...
edit: btw, tvone, why would you not want to sweep someone with white light but be ok with sweeping them with a laser? (not to mention the muzzle)
in fact, I suspect the main reason handguns are so popular for HD these days is so many younger people only own a handgun for ccw.
oleg, nice work.
when i saw the picture, my first thought was, "hey, another lefty".... followed by, "his watch is on his right hand... oleg must have reversed the image"... then, "where's the ejection port??". i guess some people just wear their watches on the other hand.
siglite, no doubt. but then, we've always had enough to put together our own 'gun ignorant' focus groups. you can lead a horse to water...
edit: btw, tvone, why would you not want to sweep someone with white light but be ok with sweeping them with a laser? (not to mention the muzzle)
3KillerBs
Member
I like that one a lot. Normal-looking guy with modern gun and the family picture on the dresser -- it gives a feel of "home defense isn't just for rednecks".
Sistema1927
Member
I like it.
I only wish that my HD AR looked like that one! Oh well, nothing that lots of money can't solve.
I only wish that my HD AR looked like that one! Oh well, nothing that lots of money can't solve.
neviander
Member
lmao, I got a good belly laugh out of that. I don't have a problem with using whatever for HD purposes, but the average joe and/or jane that looks at that poster is going to see nothing but overkill/paranoia.
CDignition
Member
Im starting to wonder if some of you guys are actually interested in guns at all..Some people never cease to amaze.
tvone
Member
Modern times and modern firearms.
Your soccer moms and liberal fence sitters should be made aware that they shouldn't be afraid of new technology in their hybrid vehicles or progressive firearms.
Your soccer moms and liberal fence sitters should be made aware that they shouldn't be afraid of new technology in their hybrid vehicles or progressive firearms.
Powderman
Member
TVone, if you like the suppressed goodies, Gemtech is your friend. They market adapters and quick release mounts for all their cans. You could purchase a number of uppers for different purposes--a 24" match for varmint or target, a 20" for fun, plinking and general purposes, and a 16" carbine length. Heck, you might even consider going the 10.5 or shorter SBR route, with the can mounted.
I also like your choice of ammo. That's the good stuff.
The only real correction I would make is to have two mags jungle clipped. Load with 28 rounds each, and you have 56 rounds available. That should do ya!
I also like your choice of ammo. That's the good stuff.
The only real correction I would make is to have two mags jungle clipped. Load with 28 rounds each, and you have 56 rounds available. That should do ya!
This is NOT a "high power rifle". By definition, all assault rifles (M16, AK-47, etc) and their civilian-legal counterparts fire intermediate power rounds like the .223 and 7.62x39mm.
Some fairly highly trained individuals favor a shotgun for HD, but probably at least as many experts suggest or favor a good carbine. I'm not an expert, but I have fired thousands of rounds from a carbine in CQB training environments, and I'm at home with a shotgun. I would choose the carbine for social work in a military setting or for HD (unless in bear country) every time.
TV, welcome to THR. Glad to have you.
Oleg, I think the picture in the background is an excellent addition.
John
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papajohn
Member
I see nothing wrong with the rifle. It is a perfectly logical choice. Were I confronted with a Home Invasion scenario, that is exactly what I'd want to have. With a handgun as backup. The AR platform is rightfully becoming the "Everyman"s rifle.
PJ
PJ
SoCalShooter
Member
++++ thats an awesome one Oleg. Keep up the good work.
azhunter122
Member
Great job on that one!
whosyrdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 332
Any bottom fed semi auto handgun, by definition, is a machine gun.
I did not have sexual relations with that woman............
Read my lips. No new taxes.
Iraq has WMDs and is in cahoots with Osama.
to protect and serve
The check is in the mail.
This will only hurt a little bit
for the sake of the children.....
I understand that you're making a point, but your first is NOT an accepted definition. In general, the ATF definition of a machine gun is: any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger...
(§ 5845 (b))
(§ 5845 (b))
hrgrisso
Member
Great!
Oleg great job. I know us as gunnies see it as a suppressor but I think most people would just see it (as earlier mentioned) a really thick barrel. For the poster I don't think the double mag as suggested would be necessary.
Oleg great job. I know us as gunnies see it as a suppressor but I think most people would just see it (as earlier mentioned) a really thick barrel. For the poster I don't think the double mag as suggested would be necessary.
When did 223 become "high power"? It is adequate for coyotes, marginal for deer. Or is high power code word for "anything more than 22LR"?
I've never seen a 223 that would go through people, walls and more people in other domiciles. It sounds like you're confusing .223 with 20mm.
I've seen 55gr 223 that would not penetrate 2 phonebooks.
-T
taprackbang
member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2008
- Messages
- 411
Oh Oleg you should have had a .50 BMG. in the picture. Now that would have been a hoot!
Oleg are you a PTR 91 / HK 91 lover? Could not help but notice the pretty Indian gal holding a PTR in picture gallery.
Oleg are you a PTR 91 / HK 91 lover? Could not help but notice the pretty Indian gal holding a PTR in picture gallery.
Nolo
Member
It's my understanding that it is the girl in the picture who is a PTR-91/HK91/G3 lover, not Oleg.
Though I'm sure he likes 'em, too.
Scoutsout2645
Member
I like the pic, I think the setting and the look of the guy is perfect for portraying HD as something that is acceptable for a "normal" person. I agree that an AR is just as suitable as a shotgun for HD (I choose to use my 12ga as a primary, but have my own AR close at hand as a secondary longarm), and I don't think the weapon or the suppresor is a negative here.
Something to think about though, especially if the target audience is borderline antis or neutrals. I sent 2 pics of ARs to a non-gun guy friend of mine--one had stock A2 handguards and carry handle and the second one had quad-rail handguards and a flat-top. His impression of the same gun was neutral to the first and negative to the second simply because the rails, etc. looked too much like "the creature in Aliens". Not a rational reaction, an emotional one. But it is that initial reaction we have to deal with when marketing our cause. I'd say keep the AR, change the handguards.
By the way, after I explained why it was an advantage to have an AR that looks like an Alien, his opinion of it became better. The key is to get them thinking positively about the idea of guns, then educate them about how appearances are practical instead of scary.
Something to think about though, especially if the target audience is borderline antis or neutrals. I sent 2 pics of ARs to a non-gun guy friend of mine--one had stock A2 handguards and carry handle and the second one had quad-rail handguards and a flat-top. His impression of the same gun was neutral to the first and negative to the second simply because the rails, etc. looked too much like "the creature in Aliens". Not a rational reaction, an emotional one. But it is that initial reaction we have to deal with when marketing our cause. I'd say keep the AR, change the handguards.
By the way, after I explained why it was an advantage to have an AR that looks like an Alien, his opinion of it became better. The key is to get them thinking positively about the idea of guns, then educate them about how appearances are practical instead of scary.
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