Action Tune - Dan Wesson 715

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tomthel

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A couple of questions relative to the new Dan Wesson 715 .357 mag with forged parts (not sintered).

Who is the best pistolsmith that you can think of to tune the gun?

Can the double action be reduced much and retain reliability? The factory years ago used to advertise a "Gold Model" with a reduced action around 8 pounds double action (or so was claimed). I currently have a GP-100 with about a 7.75 pound double action and a 686 Plus with the action around 7 pounds. These fire all the stuff I feed them (haven't tried CCI mag primers, though). Can the Dan Wesson get anywhere near this?

Thanks.

Tom
 
The Dan Wesson design incorporates a “short action†in which the hammer travels through a shorter ark or radius. This is combined with a transfer bar system wherein the hammer hits the bar, which in turn hits the firing pin. Polishing lockwork parts may make the action feel smoother, if you don’t cut deep enough to effect case hardening - if indeed the parts are case hardened. To lighten the action you must reduce spring tension against the hammer and trigger. By all means experiment, but it’s my feeling that if you get down to 8 pounds or so in double-action you’ll be asking for misfires. Another problem might be a hang-fire, in which the cartridge went off, but ignition was delayed. By the time this happened you might have rotated the cylinder for the next shot. Not good ….
 
my mind is fuzzy but i seem to remember a pistolsmith who worked on the dan wesson actions. mas ayoob wrote about him being the master of tuning that action.

i want to say his name is somthing like "carillo" (andy?). he was a member of the NYPD "stakeout squad". maybe some other old timer can help here
 
I think there was a Jim Cerillo (sp?) that was on the NYPD stake out team. Ayoob used to recommend Andy Cannon highly that was in Vermont (I think) that later moved to Polson, Montana. His catalog only shows him working on S&W, Colt and Ruger. Finally, from what I recall Ayoob recommended somebody at Maryland Gun Works (Lou Ciamillo?) to work on Rugers as I recall. Some time ago on another matter I had contacted Maryland Gun Works and they told me Ciamillo no longer worked did revolver work. The only two, so far, that I am aware of that work on Dan Wessons are Teddy Jacobson and Jim Stroh. Neither appear to specialize in Dan Wesson.

I think Fuff you might be right about the action. Somehow I am thinking the short hammer arc requires a stronger spring compared to one with a longer arc. The only ones with a short action that seem to work with a light spring are S&W's. Years ago on a friend's Dan Wesson .357 we tried a Bullseye spring kit in it and we got a lot of misfires so I doubt highly it would work at a 7 pound pull. I wonder if the new forged innards will create a smoother pull than the old sintered ones?

I am trying to find some info before buying a 715 .357 mag. That plus no one seems to carry them so it would be a custom order. It sort of is a sight unseen thing.
 
Understand that I’m not knocking the Dan Wesson revolver. I think that they, and the far more expensive Freedom Arms revolvers are the most accurate out-of-the-box wheelguns you can buy. They are highly regarded by many Metallic Silhouette shooters who knock off relatively small targets out to ranges that exceed the length of a football field - times two.

They have excellent single-action trigger pulls and fast lock time. But everything comes at a price, and in this case fast lock time and a light, crisp single-action pull requires a heavier double-action. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
 
If the gun was made in Monson or Palmer Massachusetts thent he action parts are a surface hardened iron, and polishing can remove the hardened surface resulting in rapid wear. I understand that nickel plating has been used to restore durability in the past. If the gun was made in Norwich, NY then the action parts are steel and can be polished in typical fashion. The Norwich parts can be retro-fitted to the older Monson and Palmer guns.

I found the below write-up somewhere, I suspect it was here on THR but I didn't think to make a notation as to where I found it and who wrote it. So my apologies to the author for the lack of accreditation and if you recognize your work let me know.

1) Unload gun
2) Using the special spanner wrench, remove the barrel nut. Then slide off the shroud
and unscrew the barrel.
3) Remove the grip screw with an Allen wrench and slide the grip off.
4) Remove the two Allen sideplate screws. (Note: they are different lenghts)
5) Vibrate off the sideplate by tapping the grip stud with a nylon hammer or wood
screwdriver handle.
6) Just infront of the trigger is a small wire like, horseshoe shaped clip. Lift
this up and out with a magnet or tweezers. Now open the cylinder and slide the
cylinder/yoke assembly to the left, and out of the frame.

Okay, now stop and study where all the parts belong. Take a picture if needed. Pay
close attention to the cylinder hand and transfer bar and especially the little spring
that connects them.

7) Remove the cylinder hand by lifting it up off it's post and moving it to the left. Note
how the tail end of the transfer bar spring fits into a small grove on the back side of
the hand.
8) Use tweezers to unhook the forward end of the mousetrap style trigger return
spring from the ledge on the trigger.
9) Lift out the trigger and then the transfer bar and spring.
10) Push the cylinder stop (bolt) down to clear the frame and then lift it out to the left.
11) Grab the forward end of the trigger return spring again, and lift it over the
hammer stud. This should completely remove it's tension.
12) Hold the hammer all the way to the back and insert the long sideplate screw into
the hole in the bottom of the grip stud. Screw it in. It's going into the bottom
end of the mainspring strut and captures it in place.
13) Lift the hammer and trigger return spring out.
14) I put the treaded end of a cleaning rod over the top end of the mainspring
strut, and push down to hold the tension of the mainspring. While the holding
the tension, unscrew the sideplate screw from the botttom. Slowly let up on
the rod until the mainspring has relaxed and remove the mainspring strut and spring.

Now that you have a bench covered with parts, here's what I do to smooth the
action and lighten the trigger pull.

1) Install a set of Wolff reduced power springs, especially the trigger return
spring. www.gunsprings.com
2) Polish the inside of the sideplate. Don't worry about removing any deep tool
marks, just make it smooth.
3) Polish the sides of the hammer below the frame line (the part that doesn't show).
4) Polish the sides of the trigger above the frame line.
5) Polish the flat bottom of the cylinder bolt and the top of the trigger
where they rub together.
6) Polish the inside flat of the frame, especially around the hammer and trigger bosses.

Note: All polishing is done with a couple small hard Arkansas stones and
a few strips of crocus cloth. Don't change any angles or remove any
decernable amout of metal. Just shine up the areas where parts rub together.

Put it back together and test fire. 1st time through, you may want to skip
the polishing and see if the springs alone are enough for what you want.

The above method is how I've slicked up the actions on my small frame Dan
Wessons. I don't own a solid large frame, so I can't help much there.
 
Fuff: I agree about the price of a quick action coming at double action expense. Still, I think the trigger pull can be reduced somewhat albeit not near a S&W or Ruger medium frame.

Parker Dean: thanks for the tuning info. I could be wrong but the monthly or whatever it is magazine from American Gunsmiths (??) or some such I think had about a 1 - 1 1/2 page writeup on tuning the Dan Wesson quite a few years ago. It has been enough time I don't recall the name of the magazine or the outfit. It is something Brownell's sends or recommends literature about joining.

I guess the only way to find out about the trigger will be to break down and buy one of the new ones and see what the action can be tuned to.

Thanks for the replies.
 
Parker, thanks for finding my old check list. Saved me having to look it up.

Tomthel, Dan Wessons are quite 'tunable", but they really do require experiance. You may want to consider sending your 715 back to the current factory. I've heard very good things about their work.

Good Luck...

Joe
 
ok my mind is a bit unfuzzed now...it was jim carrillo who specilized in the dan wesson pistols (shooting them in competition). of the smiths you've mentions i'd go with jim stroh

i also remember "flash chroming" the internals after an action job being pretty standard as a way to prevent wear

the 715 is pretty rare out here in CA, where'd you find one?
 
On my old 15-2 Monson, I use the Wolff 7.5# hammer spring and their reduced power trigger return spring. I have had very good luck with that set up over the years.
 
9mmepiphany: Haven't found one yet but am doing my homework before acquiring one (a novel concept for me - usually I leap first and find out about the gun later). If I am not mistaken how Dan Wessons come into California is they are "single action" handguns and hence not subject to the drop test and all. Seems to me on the Dan Wesson site they list a Stevenson's Gun Ranch in the Burbank area of Southern California as a dealer. I think they ship the guns to Calif. minus the double action sear (or hammer dog in Rugerese) and one can just order the parts and drop them in hopefully. I could kick myself for sitting on the fence as last Dec. there was a guy in the L.A. area with a 715 that wanted $300 as I recall and willing to do a private party transfer that was listed on Guns America. Sometimes used ones do turn up (usually when I am not looking for the particular model). Have you ever had any work done by TJ Custom (not Teddy Jacobson)? He used to be in Ontario, CA and now is in Culver City. He might work on Wessons. He is noted for Sig Sauer work I gather. His prices seem a bit high. He has a website at:

www.tjscustomgunworks.com


Jar: Good to know the Wolff spring setup will work. As I mentioned the Bullseye spring kit (don't know if they are in business anymore out of Detroit) did not work out as the mainspring was too light. That seems to be a problem with a lot of the Bullseye kits although the one for the Python works well yielding a 6.5 pound double action on a tuned gun.

Joe: I might investigate checking with the factory, too, as it seems they do several tune levels.
 
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