All you GUN toting Christians...Chime in here

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malakas07

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My best friend (a Pastor ) and I were talking about other Christians coming up to you and questioning your need to ccw or your need
to even own a firearm.
How you should turn the other cheek and use the famous line " Live by the sword die by the sword" also retelling the story of Peter slicing another mans ear off. Everything can be dealt with by delegating etc etc.


Was wondering if you Christian guys who own fire arms deal with other Christians who question you?
 
I'm not a holy roller but I'll chime in anyway :). I think you can make the argument that having a defensive weapon is not in any way "living by the sword". I've always interpreted that expression to mean those who use weapons in an offensive way to force their will upon others, shall ultimately reap the same in kind.
 
By God's wisdom, he had the Israelites wonder the deserts for forty years to make them a war-like people. He did not do this so that they would be aggressive or oppressive but so they could defend themselves.

Remember, God strengthens the righteous, but He does not command the wicked -- one way or the other.

Turning the other cheek does not mean lay down and die to the benefit of those who would offend Him.
 
As a Chrisian I have ofter wondered about this as well.
My best response is usually this.
When asked a couple times the conversation has went like this.

Them:"Why do you feel the need to carry a gun?"

Me: To protect myself and my family.

Them: "That is why I trust in the Lord. He will protect me" <--- which I agree with.

Me: Do you have a job?
Them: yes
Me: Me too, but I also belive that the Lord will provide for me.
I can't just sit around and expect a check to show up every week in the mail.
I use this same philosophy with carrying a firearm. I belive that the lord is my provider and protector but I also beleive he rewards those that are willing to provide for and protect themselves with his guidance.
 
I'm by no means religious in any way, let alone Christian, but it seems to me that if one were of the mindset that a higher power did create us, and gave us the gift of life, it would be an affront to that higher power to not do one's level best to preserve that life, and the lives of others. And following that logic - when you're confronted by an individual whose aim it is (no pun intended) to take away that life, one would have the duty to whatever higher power there may be to remove that individual from the earth. After all, if life is indeed a gift from a higher power, those who seek to deprive another of that gift for selfish and violent reasons are the direct opposite, the "enemy", some might say, to that benevolent higher power.
 
I turn the other cheek. That is about vengence. Being smitten on the face is not a life threatening gesture (Insulting? Yes. Life Threatening? No.). When someone threatens my life (not my property), I am not obligated to refrain from porotecting myself. What's more when someone puts my life in danger, they endanger my ability to care for my family. I believe there are some cases where God calls people to lay down their lives peacefully (e.g. Stephen). However these are the exception IMHO.

Further, if someone jeapordizes my wife or daughter's safety, I will protect them at all cost, and I believe deeply that this is a Godly response.

Additionally, a great argument could be made based on the minor Prophets and other references that God expects his people to defend (i.e. fight for) the oppressed and the innocent.

The instruction to turn the other cheek prohibits vengence not protection.
 
I'm getting married and, as a catholic, have been going to pre cana. Well in the midst of discussion, my shooting hobby (or as some call it, obsession) came up. Oddly enough my priest lifts his pant leg to reveal his ruger snubby in an ankle holster. Needless to say, we talked guns for some time after - somewhat to my finance's dismay. So though I am not a "Hole Roller" myself, my priest is!
 
The Lord helps those who help themselves ...
That's not in the Bible, Chester. ;-)

"Turning the other cheek" has been discussed ad nauseum; the gist is that slapping a persons cheek was an act of insult, not assault. Jesus wasn't telling you to roll over and die if someone tries to beat or rape you.

Too, Jesus had to be arrested, tried, die, and resurrect to fulfill scripture. I do not believe his command to Peter upon his arrest was a general order saying it was inappropriate in all situations to engage in self defense or defense of another.

Life is precious and I have a duty to my family to protect their lives. If I am able to prevent it, nobody harms them in my presence. Nobody.
 
Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27).

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14).

Jesus is simply saying do not hurt or kill others for slight offenses, he does not say not to defend yourself or your family.
 
Just as a point of info...."Holy Roller" is a perjorative, not real High Road. If you want to ask Christians a question, use "Christian".

I'm an Orthodox Christian, and I have had occasion to answer questions from other Christians, Orthodox or otherwise. To both, I simply point out that in 2000 years of church history, only a very few sects have disallowed self defense. The church in both the East and West has permitted self defense and the defense of those around us. And since I carry for self defense and defense of my family, I stand on church tradition and teaching.

Jesus did indeed tell us to "turn the other cheek", but keep in mind, He was referring to less than life-or-death conflicts. In modern parlance, it might loosely be said "Let it go". But you can't "let it go" if your life is on the line. At that point, you defend yourself, including deadly force.

Springmom
 
Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27).

This is the scripture I was thinking of.
 
I think there are many Christians that are of the "turn the other cheek" mindset. I personally have a lot of friends who are Christians but have a much more liberal worldview than I do. The only side of God that they focus on is the God who says to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the orphans & widows, love one another and so on & so forth. That is fine - the God I believe in is a loving God. There is however another side of God, what you might call the fire & brimstone side of God. Crack open the Old Testament and read for a few minutes. You quickly will see that God is not exactly a pacifist.

I did a quick word search using an online concordance for the word "sword" and then the word "love" (using the NIV Bible). Guess what - the word "sword" was mentioned in 362 verses. The word "love" was mentioned only 496 times.

Im not trying to downplay the Loving God aspect of things in any way. Im simply trying to make a point that there is a balance. To everything. I think that when Jesus said to Peter "those who live by the sword die by the sword" I dont think he was referring to simply HAVING a sword for self defense. I think he was referring to a violent lifestyle. Im willing to bet that this was not the first time Peter had carried a sword, and up until that point Jesus had never said anything (at least that we know about) that would indicate that he disapproved of his disciples being armed. In fact there is a verse somewhere that he actually TELLS them to gather up swords.

The point is, there is nothing in the Bible that would imply that it is a sin to protect you and yours from those who would do you harm. I think it has more to do with society conditioning us to think: guns=bad. guns= violence



p.s. I have always been of the understanding that "turn the other cheek" was refering to pride and someone humiliating you - not physical violence. Anyone else hear it that way?
 
This isn't really scriptural or religious, more along the lines of common sense.

-If God didn't want me to use a gun to protect myself, He would have made me bullet proof.

Somebody here on THR said that somewhere and I thought it made some good sense.
 
I'm not a theologian, but a spiritual Jew....here's my take:

39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matt 5:39

Since you quoted this portion of scripture, what I BELIEVE and reading the full context of the Beatitudes is that Jesu wanted his followers to go the extra mile to help others develope their faith in God. Personal example is the key. This is not a scripture about being humiliated (there's a difference between being humble and being humiliated) and letting people walk all over you. Therefore has no text on gun rights, besides converting and being with the fellowship (hanging around) of believers.

52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
Matt 26:52-53

Jesu was teaching his disciples (in the other gospels, Peter is mentioned doing the slicing and dicing) that nothing can stop him from suffering and eventually dying on the cross.

Therefore, again, no text on gun rights. And with that note...study your Bible, don't just read it, study it.

And to your last question about how I deal with other Christians that question my gun ownership: I will love my neighbor.
 
As an person who grew up in a VERY religious household (probably the reason I'm an Atheist today) I learned a lot about what the Bible says, and learned through life that very few practice what they preach. The human condition and the Bible have very little to do with one another from a philosophical standpoint. The advice the Bible gives only makes sense when one is being rational. Self defense is not about rationality, but survival. It is a primordial instinct of self-preservation that causes us to "fight or fly" as each case dictates. Humans kill humans for many different reasons, none of which make sense to a rational person. Guns have nothing to do with the human propensity to kill, just as they have nothing to do with self-defense. They are simply machines being put to use.
 
I think that Ford put it about as well as it can be stated. I for one agree wholeheartedly that Christians can and should bear arms.
 
To find the scriptural viewpoint on the concept of self-defense, read the book of Ruth.

"Them: "That is why I trust in the Lord. He will protect me""

A devout man has a house in a flood plain. The flood comes and he prays to God for safety. The water gets up to his porch and a public official rows up in a boat.
"The flood is just going to get worse. You better climb aboard and get out of there," the official says.
"No thanks, " the man replies. I have faith that the Lord will protect me. So the official rows away.
Awhile later, the water has flooded the first floor of the house. So he's at the window of the second floor and a policeman motors over in a bigger boat. "The flooding is only getting worse. You better let me take you out of here!" the policeman says.
"No, I trust the Lord to protect me!" the religious man says.
"If you say so," the cop responds and motors away.
Later on, the flood has claimed the second floor of his house, so now he's on the roof hanging on to the chimney.
A National Guard helicopter flies overhead and hovers. They lower a rope ladder and the soldier says "The flood is not letting up. You better come with us!"
The believer says "No. I put my trust in the Lord that he will protect me!"
The soldier shrugs, climbs back up and the helicopter flies away.
The flood water comes up, the guy is washed of his roof and he drowns. He goes to heaven and he's kind of peeved at the Lord for not rescuing him. So he goes before the Lord and says, "Lord, I prayed for safety and trusted that you would keep me safe and you let me down!"
The Lord replies "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, you idiot!"

That's why I carry a gun.
 
God can move mountains! But bring a shovel...

I remember hearing that. No not in the bible, but it makes perfect sense to me!
 
I believe one of the ways the Lord protects me is by providing me the means to do so.

He provides me with food and cloths too, by providing me with a job. While it's possible, I don't recall any reports of manna lately.
 
Anybody who uses "Holy Roller" or "Bible Thumper" as applying to all Christians needs some Wikipedia time before proceeding. :D

And, these terms should not be taken as all-inclusive of Christians, either.

Art
 
I have a little different spin on the same basic question. My wife and I took an advanced combative pistol course recently. We are very committed and evangelical Christians who actively live our faith the best we can. We love to shoot our pistols. Our course instructor was a very well respected personal defense firearms instructor, former LEO, FBI firearms instructor, etc. However, he used very profane language when talking about the bad guys, etc. I was squirming inside because I knew my wife was not comfortable with his choice of adjectives for the most part.

During our lunch break we were talking about the couse material, etc. and my wife made the statement that applies here. As Christians, we are prepared to die. There is no fear in death and so is going through the training to defend ourselves really necassary? She continued questioning whether she was mentally and spiritually prepared to take another life that certainly did not have that same security.

The weekend went on and the weeks have passed I assured her that the Lord would only use her as an instrument of destruction if he so chose, but she should be prepared to protect her life, the lives of our children, my life if necessary, and certainly the lives of any other innocents if need be.

A close friend of ours and also member of our church is an ATF agent was telling her that he would count it a privilidge to be used by the Lord to protect His children if need be but would never wish the threat on anyone.

I also reminded her of the lady who shot and killed that church sniper not too long ago, saving who knows how many church members.

I think the pastor's conflict with the turn the other cheek is maybe in the intent of the message. We are to love our enemies and return evil with kindness as an act of love to them. However, that is not possible if we are dead and is not a testimony to our faith unless we die for Christ. A carjacking or robbery is not about our faith. Therefore we are protecting ourselves and potentially others, both at the time and possibly the future by using our weapon. And yes, in that, we may lay our life down for another by engaging a threat. If we are successful in stopping them and are mortally wounded in the process, we won't know the lives we saved until the Lord reveals them to us in Heaven, if he chooses.

So, if you engage another with a weapon of you own, you'd better be prepared to die because your are now a much greater threat than if you turned the other cheek.

She has made the choice to carry concealled.
 
MODERATOR NOTE: We've had threads like this before and we want to remind everyone that we will not tolerate violations of THR's forum rules.
 
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