Jesse H
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Not chambered, not loaded, same thing.
An interesting story at the doctors office
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Not chambered, not loaded, same thing.
What did you mean when you said
How would the trigger on a holstered pistol be pulled?
I meant what I said... That a chambered semi auto is not the same thing as a loaded semi auto. Do you need further clarification?
Loaded means there is a magazine, with one or more rounds inserted, in the mag well. Chambered means there is a round in the chamber.
In terms of your ability to accidentally discharge, an uncocked glock can't fire whether it's loaded or if one is in the chamber, and a cocked glock could discharge the one in the chamber but not one in the magazine if the trigger is pulled.
I meant holstering, not holstered, but if you must have examples, what if your clothing is loose and your shirt goes part way into the holster when you put your gun there and later pulls on the trigger if you move your arm.
More importantly, holstering and unholstering are the more likely times when you'd accidentally discharge, and that's what I was referring to.
If you're saying you want to carry with a round chambered then by all means do it, but if you are saying that carrying a firearm with a round chambered is the only possible way to carry and those not wanting to shouldn't carry at all because they're not well enough trained, then I don't agree.
No one says "today I'm going to be careless and not follow my training." No one is immune from making a mistake regardless of how much training they have. If a person recognizes the capacity for a mistake and changes their behavior to mitigate it, why is that a problem? A person who says "I never will make a mistake" is likely overconfident.
old lady new shooter
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As a revolver owner I don't have this issue, but what I think the other folks are trying to tell you is that you're putting a big handicap on yourself. First of all, if a situation happens time is of the essence. Secondly, what if before you even get to the point of drawing BG has already wounded one of your hands? Or what if the situation is such where you need one hand to do something else like hold a baby or push a bystander out of the way?
I hate to be a jerk, but if you are going to carry, carry ready. Magazine full and one in the chamber. It is utterly pointless to have to rack a slide, when time is of the essence. That .5 seconds it takes to chamber a round is .5 seconds you are not using to take a shot is wasted and is allowing your attacker to close the gap between you and them. (.5 seconds is just a guess) As far as having a child with you, your first duty is to protect your child either by fleeing or sheilding them. Anyway, not having a round chambered pretty much negates the point of carrying a weapon.
Thanks for the input. I don't think it's a matter of right vs wrong, I think it's a question of which type of risk you want to mitigate. For me I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that I'd ever have to shoot my gun defensively (most LEOs never need to do this) but I can see a small risk to holstering or deholstering a gun that's cocked and chambered every time it's done.
If the 1 second it takes to cock a glock is the difference between life and death, I'm ok with that risk because it seems unfathomably small. If I accidentally discharged a weapon because a button on my flannel shirt snagged the trigger, and someone (me, my wife, my kid, a friend, a passer by) were hurt or killed, I couldn't live with that. It seems to me that the risk of that type of accident (and this is just my assessment for ME) is actually much bigger if I carried every day.
It's my two cents and you are free to disagree. That's what a forum is for after all.
ljnowell
Member
You should tune in for the training session, starting at about 0:48.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQBhUzEsO-Y
mdauben
Member
You should also train to draw and rack the slide with ONE hand. It is entirely possible in a self defence situation that your off hand could be incapacitated other otherwise occupied especially in a close combat situation.
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"The Cleaning Room?" To strip a Glock, the trigger has to be back which sometimes means dry firing. Some are moving the trigger back without checking the chamber.
Seems to me an awfull lot of post replies in forums just so they can argue. It appears Half of the time they forget, or don't even bother to pay attention to the op. So that being said reading these replies reminds me of a news story I read about 30 years ago.
Bg goes into drug store and robs it at gun point when he gets what he came in for ( drugs and money ) he waves his gun around and tells the pharmacist not to call the cops for at least 30 minutes after he leaves or he will come back and kill him. As he makes this statement he sticks his gun in his waist ban (no holster) an proceeds to shoot his testicles off. As the bg was laying on the floor grabbing his crotch and screaming in agony, the pharmacist calmly walks over to the bg and asks if he is sure that he doesn't want him to call the police for a half hour.
Now I know the bg didn't have a glock cause they was no glocks back then and by all accounts the bgs pain was pretty much instantaneous.
Now I know that this story doesn't have much to do with a guy accidentally shooting himself in the foot. But nether dose weather or not a glock has a safty and I felt like telling it. I always thought it was rather amusing and the bg got what he deserves. If only the bg took a gun safty corse before he decided to rob that drug store.
Bg goes into drug store and robs it at gun point when he gets what he came in for ( drugs and money ) he waves his gun around and tells the pharmacist not to call the cops for at least 30 minutes after he leaves or he will come back and kill him. As he makes this statement he sticks his gun in his waist ban (no holster) an proceeds to shoot his testicles off. As the bg was laying on the floor grabbing his crotch and screaming in agony, the pharmacist calmly walks over to the bg and asks if he is sure that he doesn't want him to call the police for a half hour.
Now I know the bg didn't have a glock cause they was no glocks back then and by all accounts the bgs pain was pretty much instantaneous.
Now I know that this story doesn't have much to do with a guy accidentally shooting himself in the foot. But nether dose weather or not a glock has a safty and I felt like telling it. I always thought it was rather amusing and the bg got what he deserves. If only the bg took a gun safty corse before he decided to rob that drug store.
old lady new shooter
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The probability of having to use your weapon is indeed extremely small. But if the occasion arises, it will be 100%. Which is why a person carries a weapon in the first place. And in that situation one second is a very long time.
How Much Time Can You Afford?
As pointed out in this excellent article by Gila Hayes, the average trained police officer can draw and fire in about a second and a half.
That does not mean drawing from concealment. And it most certainly does not provide for racking the slide to chamber a round in a semiautomatic pistol.
So, what if you do have to draw and fire from concealment in a real defensive situation? How much time would you likely have? Would that second and a half suffice?
Never mind that the likelihood of ever having to do so is remote or less. Anyone who knows the first thing about risk management will realize that that is not a relevant consideration. One must consider the conditional probability--and should the need present itself, that likelihood is then unity--100%.
Back to the question: how much time can you afford to take?
Consider first what you have to do.
That all has to happen before the assailant has harmed you. If he has a blade, that means before he has closed to within arms reach.
Now, we have all heard about that so-called "21 foot rule". That derives from the fact that an average person can start from a standstill and cover 21 feet in that average second-and-a-half draw time. A lot of people actually go to the range and practice shooting at torso targets at a distance of 21 feet.
Think about it--chances are that, you will be engaging your target at a much closer distance than that. And if you are lucky, it will not be too late.
There are plenty of videos on the web that show people practicing the Tueller Drill, reaching for their firearms at the moment that persons whom they are waiting for start moving at them from 21 feet. You will notice that few of them can draw and fire, and that does not even begin to allow for the time it takes to stop an assailant, or to take into account the need to stop the attacker before he can reach you with a blade.
What that means is sobering--it means that that second and a half is woefully short, and it means that adding the time it would take to chamber a round would compound the danger to the defender. It means that the defender should start moving immediately, if possible. And it means that that separate step needed to deactivate the safety switch on some kinds of firearms could make the all important difference between success and failure.
One more time, people should avail themselves of some relevant training.
In the mean time, I strongly recommend that everyone read this:
As pointed out in this excellent article by Gila Hayes, the average trained police officer can draw and fire in about a second and a half.
That does not mean drawing from concealment. And it most certainly does not provide for racking the slide to chamber a round in a semiautomatic pistol.
So, what if you do have to draw and fire from concealment in a real defensive situation? How much time would you likely have? Would that second and a half suffice?
Never mind that the likelihood of ever having to do so is remote or less. Anyone who knows the first thing about risk management will realize that that is not a relevant consideration. One must consider the conditional probability--and should the need present itself, that likelihood is then unity--100%.
Back to the question: how much time can you afford to take?
Consider first what you have to do.
- You have to recognize the need to draw. You aren't psyched for drawing against a clock. There won't be a buzzer. You are not standing still awaiting a signal to fire at a target that you just happen to be facing. No. You have to first become aware that someone somewhere very close presents an imminent threat that can only be addressed by the immediate use of deadly force.
- You have to draw and make ready. For most of us that will require moving a jacket, vest, or shirt tail, and that probalby means that it will more than a second and a half from the time you have recognized the immediate need to the time you have fired you first shot.
- You have to shoot, from a position that creates the least danger to bystanders, as many times as you have to, unless the presentation of your firearm has ended the situation by itself.
- Your hits have to stop that moving target, one way or another. That will not happen immediately.
That all has to happen before the assailant has harmed you. If he has a blade, that means before he has closed to within arms reach.
Now, we have all heard about that so-called "21 foot rule". That derives from the fact that an average person can start from a standstill and cover 21 feet in that average second-and-a-half draw time. A lot of people actually go to the range and practice shooting at torso targets at a distance of 21 feet.
Think about it--chances are that, you will be engaging your target at a much closer distance than that. And if you are lucky, it will not be too late.
There are plenty of videos on the web that show people practicing the Tueller Drill, reaching for their firearms at the moment that persons whom they are waiting for start moving at them from 21 feet. You will notice that few of them can draw and fire, and that does not even begin to allow for the time it takes to stop an assailant, or to take into account the need to stop the attacker before he can reach you with a blade.
What that means is sobering--it means that that second and a half is woefully short, and it means that adding the time it would take to chamber a round would compound the danger to the defender. It means that the defender should start moving immediately, if possible. And it means that that separate step needed to deactivate the safety switch on some kinds of firearms could make the all important difference between success and failure.
One more time, people should avail themselves of some relevant training.
In the mean time, I strongly recommend that everyone read this:
Well, yes, but I thought that was implied by the trigger guard being covered. If it's covered, how do things get in?
Hence why I was bringing up the amount of required training for LEOs earlier when discussing changing platforms and NDs.
Have you never used an outdoor range? A pistol pit?
I'll wager all of the even semi-experienced pistol shooters here have at some point, possibly many times, practiced or trained in dirt, grass, clay etc, with gravels and small sticks and whatever else down here. It's not a big deal. I'm wondering exactly how much experience with pistol shooting you have. Im' also pretty sure completely fabricated that 38.7% number.
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guyfromohio
Member
Sothoth.... Your carry style affects the rest of us all of zero (although, I think I saw where you posted that you don't even carry). It's your thing.
This appears to have reached the end of its usefulness.
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