Anti-hunting gun owners

[ReadyontheRight]

Leedavisone -- I have not noticed your previous posts, and I am saddened by any personal attacks you've received through THR.

Some of the friction may be from statements like this:

... Relax... no-one is going to "ban" hunting. ...

We cannot "relax" because there are lots of very vocal and political people out there who actually DO want to ban hunting and shooting. And we are fighting them at the grass roots every day.

"Relax, no one wants to ban your precious hunting gun..." is usually the argument from someone who wants exactly that. They just cannot get it...yet.

Personal attacks and strong arguments are two very different things.

THR is all about supporting the latter and squelching the former. And the Moderators do a fine job of it.

 

[waynedm]

Now I hunt with my Nikon F5 and let the deer live another day.

That's the only type of hunting I respect. Not only do I respect it, I find it admirable.

I'm a shooter, I've never hunted in my life. I work at a place that has everything to do with hunting. I get asked quite often why I work there and it's simply because I'm a shooter.

Being that I'm not a hunter and work in this environment I've had a lot of discussion with people on the ideas of hunting; the whys and hows and all of that. I've had a lot of time to sit and think about the entire idea.

There's the argument that we have to or else the deer population will get out of hand. To that I say that if we didn't kill off wolves for all of those years that the deer population never would get out of hand. Nature balances itself out. We're the ones messing with things. We caused the problems in the first place and for some reason people think we're the answer to fix the imbalance. They say they kill the prairie dogs because they're out of control and wreck things. Well, if you didn't kill off all the coyotes there wouldn't be as many prairie dogs. I'm pretty undecided on the idea of 'varmint' hunting. I do hear a lot about coyotes attacking domestic animals, and in that case I say blast them.

I don't have a problem so much with people that hunt for food. Some do it for variety, for the sport or whatever, but in the end it still stems from the basic premise of food - survival.

The hunter I don't respect at all - actually hate - are the trophy hunters. I'm using the word hate here because I mean it. These are the guys that go to Africa on 'safari' and kill beautiful, and often times struggling species. What is the point of killing a lion? Do you feel you accomplished something out that? People that kill lions, zebras, hippos, elephants and all the other animals over there are the biggest cowards on Earth. In fact, the only reason I'd go to Africa with a rifle is to hunt hunters.

To every give there is an equal take here. Humans have this supreme being mentality about things, we have this God complex where we feel the need to be in control. We have the desire for power. Remember on Schindler's List where Schindler tells the story of the Emperor pardoning the worthless thief although the man deserved death? The Emperor had the man's life in his ass but he pardoned him - that's power.

I'm not saying I'll never hunt. People talk up the taste of grouse a lot and shotgunning sounds fun. Maybe some day.

As far as the whole we all need to stick together idea - I agree. How can I not be a hunter and support hunting? I only do as a means of protecting the Second and that's as far as I'll go. Will all shooters support hunters in the grand scheme? Not always, look what happened with Zumbo. Zumbo forgot about the divided we stand united we fall idea. I'm not going to bash your Mauser action sniper rifle, but I'm also not going to condone all of the actions you take with it - unless push comes to shove with the Left.

 

[HuntCast]

The hunter I don't respect at all - actually hate - are the trophy hunters. I'm using the word hate here because I mean it. These are the guys that go to Africa on 'safari' and kill beautiful, and often times struggling species. What is the point of killing a lion? Do you feel you accomplished something out that? People that kill lions, zebras, hippos, elephants and all the other animals over there are the biggest cowards on Earth. In fact, the only reason I'd go to Africa with a rifle is to hunt hunters.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the problem right there. Spoken like it was read right off the USHS or Peta website.
Just as ASSAULT RIFLE has been defined by the anti's, so has the term trophy hunting.
Why is an elephant more valuable to you than a deer, or a cow, or a chicken? Oh, and just so you know, if more people do not go to South Africa and KILL elephants soon, they will cease to exist there.
With the ban on Ivory trade (even from legally killed game) and mis-information of the kind you are stating, people have quit hunting them. Unfortunately, there are about 500 percent more elephants per square mile than the habitat can support.
They are literally eating themselves into annihilation in South Africa and a few other countries.
I don't know the first thing about AR's and AK's, so I defer to the members here who do. Maybe you should do the same with regards to hunting?

 

[heypete]

I own numerous firearms, both suitable for hunting and not, but I do not hunt.

I would like to hunt at some time in my life as I feel it would be nice to be responsible for acquiring my food using my own skill.

Remember that man has been hunting animals for food and sport since the beginning of our species, and that man has been keeping trophies of successful hunts for just as long.

That said, here's my personal opinions on the matter:
- No objection to hunting for food whatsoever.
- No objections on "trophy hunting", so long as the meat is not wasted. If one wants to go hunting for a head to mount on the wall, or some antlers to put over the mantle, who am I to say otherwise? Donate the meat to a soup kitchen or some such if one doesn't want the meat. I'd personally prefer synthetic antlers or something, but who I am to judge? I suppose there's something authentic about the real thing.
- No objections to varminting where necessary. Man is a predator, and I suspect there's some sort of visceral response in a person's brain in response to being a predator. I can see how people would enjoy varminting, even if they're not going to eat the meat because the vermin are so small, and I can't blame them. I suppose I'd much rather have people enjoying the action than loathing it and doing it as a necessary chore. I'd like to volunteer my time with my suppressed 10/22 to help de-varmint some ranches around here, but I'm not really sure how to approach the owners about it.
- I have major objections to hunting endangered species.
- I have major objections to poaching, particularly for a relatively small part of an animal's body (such as killing an elephant simply for the tusks). Poachers should be shot on sight. One of my former Marine buddies (he was in my National Guard unit after leaving the Corps) used to be a Marine sniper (saw his qualifications) and after leaving the Marines, became a game guide in Zimbabwe; with the permission of the game warden, he's shot 5 or so poachers.

In short: I have no problem with legitimate hunting, varminting, or other such actions. I have minor issues with simply going out to shoot stuff for the hell of it (such as using random birds for targets), but I don't wish to project my personal objections on the actions of others.

Really, I have very little problem with what other people do that doesn't affect me, so long as people support the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[waynedm]

I don't know the first thing about AR's and AK's, so I defer to the members here who do. Maybe you should do the same with regards to hunting?

Where did I say anything about ARs or AKs?

They are literally eating themselves into annihilation in South Africa and a few other countries.

Nature balances itself out. If there isn't enough food for them they will die, eventually the medium will be reached.

There you have it, folks! Written like a true power hungry, making up statistics and information, know it all about the natural order of things God wanna be.

 

[Thain]

I am not anti-hunting, but I have neve gone hunting. It just doesn't appeal to me... My wife's extended family are very avid hunters and keep promising to take her, and threatening to take me.

It's not that I feel the hamburger at the grocer is somehow more holy or righteous, just because osmeone else killed it. I just enjoy not having to clean it myself... I mean, I get a little "juice" on my hands man-handling a rib roast, and I go through half a bottle of hand soap. I don't like blood, and I can't abide "guts"

So, no fishing, no hunting, and no butchering my own turkey.

Its the sort of ignorant detachment from my food that Hunter-types (liek my wife) tend to scorn. But its not because I have an ethical or moral problem, I just find the whole idea of gutting a deer to be "icky"

That said, I would never support a ban on hunting (aside from things like season/weapon/specieis regulations), but then I'm firmly Anti Banning of Anything, cross the board.

 

[chemist308]

I never understood the whole anti-hunting thing unless coming from someone who is vegetarian for moral reasons--ie: PETA members. It's one thing for someone to say they are anti-hunting and eat an asparagus sandwich--yuck--it's another to say it when eating a burger...but then I usually eat what I shoot. But one way or the other we should band together and protect both as anti-gunners attack hunting as a backdoor to our guns.

But here's a thought. One hunter I know refuses to eat store bought meat because of how the animals are treated and the garbage they ingest.

 

[MDHunter]

Not so Fast with Mother Nature...

There's the argument that we have to or else the deer population will get out of hand. To that I say that if we didn't kill off wolves for all of those years that the deer population never would get out of hand. Nature balances itself out. We're the ones messing with things. We caused the problems in the first place and for some reason people think we're the answer to fix the imbalance.

Not exactly Wayne.....nature left to its own devices through history has produced WILD swings in populations of different animal species....the whitetailed deer was nearly extinct in many areas in the early 1900s, a big part of the reason deer made a comeback was the efforts of hunters and conservationists. Wolves and coyotes running free don't produce a sustainable number of whatever species they're hunting; they'll kill everything they can, that's their instinct.

They say they kill the prairie dogs because they're out of control and wreck things. Well, if you didn't kill off all the coyotes there wouldn't be as many prairie dogs. I'm pretty undecided on the idea of 'varmint' hunting. I do hear a lot about coyotes attacking domestic animals, and in that case I say blast them.

Maybe not as many prairie dogs, but still enough to damage farms and spread disease. Again. mother nature does not manage animal populations in moderation.

The hunter I don't respect at all - actually hate - are the trophy hunters. I'm using the word hate here because I mean it. These are the guys that go to Africa on 'safari' and kill beautiful, and often times struggling species. What is the point of killing a lion? Do you feel you accomplished something out that? People that kill lions, zebras, hippos, elephants and all the other animals over there are the biggest cowards on Earth. In fact, the only reason I'd go to Africa with a rifle is to hunt hunters.

Hmmmm - not very much "High road" about this paragraph! Did you know that almost all of the animals killed on African safari hunts are used MORE fully than animals killed in the United States? The local tribes use everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that can be used for the animal. As for a "point" - what is the point of flaming someone for doing something you don't seem to care for? Isn't that what we say about the anti-gun crowd? And before you go hunting hunters.....better be careful, those pretty animals aren't always as pretty up close.

As far as the whole we all need to stick together idea - I agree. How can I not be a hunter and support hunting? I only do as a means of protecting the Second and that's as far as I'll go.

Excuse me if I misunderstand - but when you talk about "hunting the hunters" that sure doesn't seem like "sticking together" to me.

Just my comments, maybe this came out differently than you meant it. I hope so, but either way, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Michael

 

[HuntCast]

Nature balances itself out. If there isn't enough food for them they will die, eventually the medium will be reached.

Really??? Name the natural predators of elephant that will even things out until the habitat can recover in about 30 years?? Look in the mirror........ you are it.
Again, your comment is right out of the animal rights playbook.

And I mentioned the AR's as a polite way of saying you haven't a clue what you are talking about, and thats OK....... as a non hunter you have no reason to. My only problem is when people pretend they DO know what they are talking about spout off.

 

[MDHunter]

One More Note About Varmints

For those "unsure" about coyote hunting - coyotes attacked adults in Connecticut, and a coyote tried to grab an infant off a porch in Iowa or Idaho, her older sister saved her by grabbing her away from the coyote (both threads are somewhere on this forum a few months back). Coyotes kill deer (when they can catch them), house pets, and spread disease. Just some more food for thought.

Michael

 

[RCouch]

Will state my personal case as others have. I'm not anti-hunting but don't hunt. Will and have killed pests that are troublesome and dangerous (Cayotes, Racoons, Possums, etc.). Support others hunting and believe it is needed to control some of our species like Deer. Think that a lot of people fall into my category due to personal situations and age limitations.
Believe that a many of the politicians that are preaching anti-gun gorp are doing so for political motives only and that it is eventually going to come back to bite them.

 

[SteveS]

There's the argument that we have to or else the deer population will get out of hand. To that I say that if we didn't kill off wolves for all of those years that the deer population never would get out of hand. Nature balances itself out. We're the ones messing with things. We caused the problems in the first place and for some reason people think we're the answer to fix the imbalance. They say they kill the prairie dogs because they're out of control and wreck things. Well, if you didn't kill off all the coyotes there wouldn't be as many prairie dogs. I'm pretty undecided on the idea of 'varmint' hunting. I do hear a lot about coyotes attacking domestic animals, and in that case I say blast them.

True, but I doubt that wolf reintroduction will be all that popular in more populated areas. Here in Michigan, it has been met with mixed feelings in the area (the UP) where they have a growing population. In lower Michigan, there are some areas where the deer population has gotten very high and caused problems ranging from crop damage to millions in damages in car-deer accidents. I am sure we have contributed to the problem, but we have to live here too.

I enjoy hunting for a lot of reasons, but I would be untruthful if I said I was just doing it for conservation. I know that I could more easily go to the grocery store and buy chicken, steaks, hamburger, etc. Most of the red meat I eat througout the year is wild game. I take pleasure in knowing that I took it myself and that it is hormone and antibiotic free. I still enjoy a good steak and chicken, and I am not trying to knock farmers and ranchers, but there is just something about doing it yourself.

In fact, the only reason I'd go to Africa with a rifle is to hunt hunters.

You would be a muderer. Maybe you should read up on African hunting.

Interesting facts on African hunting, just what PETA doesn't want to hear!

 

[timsosvp]

Hi everyone. I'm new here but feel I have something to say about this. I am an active participant in the firearms issues and am 100% pro second amendment; I am also a hunter. Guess what guys and gals... I don't own a gun. I had a bad turn of finances and needed to sacrifice them for my kids.

These, quite honestly, petty differences in opinion are what kills us at the ballot box and at the legislative venues. How many of you can actually state what the constitutions of your states includes regarding the right to keep and bear arms?

How many of you will stand with your hunting and or shooting bretheren despite their preferred method or game is not what YOU consider ethical? Rest assured they will come after you next. Perfect example MI Dove Hunting: one of the anti arguments was that the dove represents MI to the world; PA has both the Ruffed Grouse and Whitetail Deer as their respective State animals. What makes you think that the argument won't be honed to say that "it represents PA to the world."

My home State, PA, the birthplace of liberty, is under heavy anti gun fire with no less than 10 bills that ignore our State Constitution let alone the US Constitution. Educate yourselves at the State level and also know that the brother who doesn't do things like you would is also your strongest ally; till you forget about him in his time of need.

 

[starboard]

I just got done reading Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's "On Combat" - an interesting read btw - and therein is a mention or two of how hunting experience helps to reduce post-firefight stress (and propensity for PTSD).

Another thing I seem to recall mentioned is that hunting seems to forster the hunter mentality and awareness - sheepdog rather than sheep, in other words. This mindset is essential for surviving and performing in SHTF, and so, hunting seems to be an all around good thing insofar as a person's mental preparedness goes.

I would guess that the more up close and personal the hunt, the better the training. Bow hunting is probably right up there.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I do not understand the "nature will figure it all out" argument.

When did Mankind stop being part of nature?

 

[Smellvin]

I think any living thing should be treated with respect. Any animal is capable of suffering just as much as you or me, so unless killing said creature is the only way I can survive I'm not going to be very inclined to do so. For me personally, "do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself" doesn't just apply to a small, select set.

Interesting things that you might not have thought about before:
-Someone who kills a dog or a horse -- especially for food -- is looked down upon, whereas someone who kills a bear or a deer (legally) has no such stigma attached to him. The difference is not that the first two are domesticated animals because eating cows carries no such taboo.

-The authority most people cite in allowing them to kill animals is because people are more intelligent or highly evolved. Why then, can't someone with a high genius-level IQ hunt someone with severe mental disabilities? Or, for that matter, if a highly advanced alien race suddenly appeared, would you be perfectly satisfied with them hunting us for sport? (I'm making the assumption that they would have all the food they needed).

People who are anti-blast-the-varmints would feel different if they stood beside their $100,000 tractor with a broken axle...an axle that broke when the tractor dropped into a ground hog's hole.

I doubt most people's first option would be shooting their dogs if they were digging dangerous holes; if a small child somehow accidentally broke the tractor most people probably wouldn't feel compelled to kill him, either. I've never had to deal with such a problem, so I have no idea if there is any reasonable, effective alternative such as repellents. Just something to think about.

 

[Smellvin]

Harry, the point I was making is that your argument is exactly the same one that was used by slave owners. No one here would argue that making theft, rape, or murder illegal is infringing on anyone's rights (at least I hope!). Freedom doesn't imply freedom to do whatever you wish to others. While I'm not saying that an aardvark should get voting rights or an elk should get citizenship, I'm just saying that treating them with a base level of respect would be nice.

I hope to see some good counter-points in the morning to give me something to think about. It's off to bed with me now!

 

[MDHunter]

For Those Opposed to Hunting....

another thing to remember:

Left to Mother Nature's discretion, some species overpopulate and starve to death - which takes anywhere from 1-3 weeks, during which the animal endures pain and suffering that we probably can't comprehend. Unless coyotes, wolves or other animals find and feed on the carcass, the animal is essentially wasted.

Animals that are shot by gun or bow most often die within seconds of being shot, and the emat is used by the hunter or donated to homeless shelters or food kitchens. Here in Maryland, it's estimated that Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry provided over 400,000 high-protein meals to people who really need protein in 2005; deer venison is healthy, high protein, and free of steroids or growth hormones.

And each of us kills many more organisms than we realize, just by existing. If you're opposed to killing deer or rabbits but don't hesitate to step on bugs or spiders, I'm not sure if anything I say will get through to you.

Michael

 

[gezzer]

There are many city kids on this post.

I KILL, most of my family’s food, Chickens I have raised, Rabbits I have raised, Hogs I have raised, Turkeys I have raised, Beef creatures I have raised. Most of my family’s meat does not enter our home wrapped in plastic.

I also hunt wild animals for the meat and enjoyment.

I also rip living organisms from my garden and eat them. They are no different than the live stock.

I also Kill, destroy, and eradicate any predators or varmints that endanger MY LIVE STOCK or garden.

Feel superior to me because you will not kill your own meat, but then shop at the supermarket? I cannot express my true feelings for you on this forum.

 

[H&Hhunter]

You know the thing that really bothers me about some of the posts in this thread is not so much the shear ignorance of what sport hunting/ trophy hunting/ meat hunting is but, the regurgitation of the anti hunting pop culture one liners that keep reoccurring in this thread.

The anti message is getting through loud and clear apparently.

lets try and clear a few thing up.

1. There are no non sport hunters in the USA today except in very RARE circumstances. That is a very simply fact because with extremely rare exception we all make the concious effort to hunt and we do so by choice because we enjoy it. There are almost no circumstances where it wouldn't be cheaper, easier and far simpler to just purchase out food from the store. Therefore we are hunting whether purely for food or not because we derive some pleasure from this age old activity of hunting. Remember from an evolutionary stand point we were predators/ scavengers long before we were farmers. It is our genetic code to hunt.

2. The "I despise trophy hunters" statement is probably the most misunderstood statement. It is a favorite of your various voracious anti-hunting/ anti-American/anti freedom groups out there today. It seems to be quite popular here too.

First off the term trophy hunter immediately brings the vision to the unwashed ignorant masses of a rich overweight banker who kills some poor doe eyed defenseless animal. Then has the head removed so he can hang it on his wall letting the carcass waste.

WHAT A BUNCH of unmitigated senseless BS. Trophy hunters as a group are the most disciplined, careful, and intensely conservation minded hunters in the world. They have to be or there wouldn't be any trophies left for them to hunt. They are intensely concerned about herd health, proper genetics, correct land management, license allocation, proper kill ratio, FAIR chase, ethics, land accessibility and preservation and most of all the sustainability of the precious resource of wildlife and wild country for endless generations to come.

Trophy hunters are the guys who pay the big out of state and out of country fees to make sure these things are available in the future. GET a clue guys WE trophy hunters pay a huge portion of the bill so that everybody else can enjoy the wildlife our fee's pay to keep around. With out us fighting for and financing the struggle to keep wild places wild and wildlife at sustainable levels you'd see a rapid dissipation of these place and these animals as they became of less value and your land all of a sudden looked more inviting as a strip mall than a winter feeding ground.

I've posted far to many factual instances of the good trophy hunters do to go in and regurgitate them here but I'll summarize a few facts:

One only needs to look at the dismal wildlife densities in Kenya where hunting was banned in 1978 and in particular the African Elephant as compared to ALL of the other countries which continued the practice of controlled regulated and heavily fee based sport hunting of Elephants and other game animals.

All of the countries who have continued using the very effective conservation tool of TROPHY hunting are simply overrun with game and in fact some are begging for more hunting quotas to pay for the removal of elephants as they are over populated. There are hundreds of thousands of elephants in Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Mozambique and Namibia where hunting is allowed.

Kenya's Elephant population is down from roughly 160,00 when the hunting ban went into effect to less than 16,000 today. WHY? Because these animals have no intrinsic value to the average native who would just as soon poach one and make a few schillings on the ivory. In the countries that allow hunting the elephants are worth more as an asset to the natives in the form of employment fees paid to the local villages and legal meat than they are a set of illegal ivories.

The black buck of India, there are more Black buck living in the state of Texas on TROPHY hunting ranches than there are in the also non-hunting country of India. WHY? Well I think you already know why.

I have never killed a game animal in Africa where the meat wasn't fully utilized by the indigenous population. That is part of the deal over there.

I am a trophy hunter. I am always hunting for the biggest oldest critter I can find. That is wise herd management. I also always pack out any and all of the usable meat from said animal. There are many times that I come home empty handed because I don't find just the right critter. I still paid for the license. Heck I've made three trips 2 + miles back to a cape buffalo bull to pack out the meat with four guys so we could give the meat to a local village. I didn't eat it but they were sure as hell happy enough to have it. Does that make me evil? I've also shot a crop raiding non trophy elephant at the request of a local chief which I paid a Healthy license fee on. The carcass feed four villages in the area and the hide and bone was split four ways to those communal villages and my license fee also goes directly back in to the community. Was I an evil non compliant non bambyist for doing that? I'll tell you this as well. I was majorly jazzed, totally tuned in, and completely psyched when I closed to with in 40 yards of that elephant in heavy cover and killed her with a side brain shot from a .470NE double rifle. Cow elephant are without a doubt the most deadly animal on the planet to hunt on foot.

Was I completely excited when I stopped a bull buffalo charge at mere feet in the jesse of the Zambezi valley. You bet your sweet buns I was and you'd have been too. I am excited and alive and free and in my element every time I grab a rifle and head for the distant horizon. Whether to hunt cape buffalo or cow elk to deny that feeling is to deny a basic human condition I am not a spectator in nature I am a participant just like that lion in Botswana.

I couldn't give two poops what the elitist left has to say about it. If you cherish wildlife and if you cherish wild country the world over you should thank a hunter and not just a hunter but a trophy hunter WE PAY THE BILL FOR IT EACH AND EVERY DAY! So enjoy it's on me.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Smellvin -- So a rat is a dog is a child?

Is it more respectful to raise a cow in a pen and trudge it to the slaughterhouse than to hunt a free, wild animal? Or is it more respectful for a wild, free deer to be dragged down and eaten by wolves or to starve through overpopulation than to manage the herd and harvest a few with bullets every fall? Just like our ancestors have done for eons?

As far as the concept of shooting something just for the trophy, my various hunting camps and those with whom we associate self-regulate very nicely. Very few people in most of the world "need" to hunt for food anymore (THANK YOU FREE ENTERPRISE!), so many hunters will use their precious time out hunting to go for the most difficult target - like a wiley old buck.

However, anyone leaving good meat out on the field to rot would be ostracized...and probably dropped off deep in the woods naked amongst the wolves as a lesson to avoid our camp in the future.

I suspect it is the same the world over. It's always "those people" or "I heard about this guy who..."

Just like anything, the few bad hunter stories become fodder for those who have no interest in hunting and cannot even comprehend the interest in truly fending for oneself.

Are anyone's concepts of "trophy hunters" driven by your actual experience, or are they driven by something out of Hollywood?

Starboard -- You have captured a good part of the pro-hunting argument nicely. An America full of non-hunting sheep would be nice and peaceful to govern...until the next pack of wolves comes along.

 

[TNDad]

think any living thing should be treated with respect. Any animal is capable of suffering just as much as you or me, so unless killing said creature is the only way I can survive I'm not going to be very inclined to do so. For me personally, "do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself" doesn't just apply to a small, select set.

Here are a couple of points for you to ponder...

1. That is a selfish thing to say, hunting is not the only way for US to survive. It is the only way for the ANIMALS to survive. So by saying you will not accept your responsibility as the top predator in controling animal populations is just cruel. If we do not hunt them the animals that we love would be wiped out by disease and starvation.

2. There is not a single person on this planet that RESPECTS animals more then a hunter. That admiration and respect is one of the things that drives us to hunt them. Think about it, we love to hunt, it calls to us on a primal level, it is NATURE in all her glory, the completion of the cycle of life. AND it is a tradition that we, as hunters, want to share with our kids and grandkids. No hunter would ever endanger a species. Quite the contrary we take responsibility for ensureing the survival of these species.

3. Animals are a natural resource, PERIOD. They are pure lean protein, no fillers, no artificial flavors or colors. Best of all they are RENEWABLE, but only if properly managed. It is perfectly natural and right for humans to work for, stalk, and harvest our food. The unatural thing to do is going to the grocery store for you food.

4. Managing and harvesting game is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. It is hard work and takes dedication. It is also no different the planting seed, weeding, furtilizing, and harvesting wheat to make bread. Except the fact that there is no promise of success.

5. Make no mistake about it, if a deer could gain sustenance by eating you it would do so without hesitation or remorse.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

I Don't Hunt

I haven't hunted in forty years.

I've taken various small game in my youth, nearly always for food, and always with small bore.

Then I "got civilized" and more than thirty years went by, including time in the military, time volunteering in humanitarian efforts overseas, time raising a family, and time pursuing a career.

During this time I was subjected to a pretty much nonstop stream of "softening" propaganda. I didn't realize it nor recognize the softening vector for years.

[Series of events leading me to a renewed active interested in guns and self defense.]

Now I'm not young and fit any more, and I finally understand why it is important to know how to hunt and how to prepare game. Somehow my exposure to this stuff was diverted to other stuff when I was still young, strong, and at the top of my physical game.

Now it's late. Not too late, but late nonetheless.

I have much time to make up, much to learn, and still many of my demons to overcome, and little time left to do it. I still have the opportunity -- if I work at it -- to pass these skills and a legacy in them to my children and grandchildren.

I've gotten over the guilt of not paying attention to the needs of life and expecting others to do the things that are, in fact, my duty.

I'm still a little afraid of how I'll handle myself on my first hunt -- once I find someone willing to train an old fart -- but afraid or not, I'll go through with it.

I'm getting better with pistol and rifle, but I still don't own a shotgun. I hear tell birds are easier with a shotgun.

Those of you who fear hunting or hate it: go in peace. I've walked in your shoes. Now I have to walk in my grandfather's.

Those of you who have kept hunting alive until I woke up: thank you all. I'm grateful and humbled.

Maybe the day will never come that I have to prove I can hunt in order to provide for my family. Nonetheless, I will prepare against that event.

I'm a recovering coward.

I will learn to hunt.

 

[Hunt4life]

I'm new. Nice to be here!

I browsed the thread a thread a little and would like to make a point or three...

There are phrases used against hunters and hunting that are similar to the way "assault weapon" is used against gun owners.

"Trophy hunting" - Used by the anti-hunt crowd and the general, non-hunting public constantly as a "bad" thing.

The term most often conjures up images of a century ago when shooting game animals for their heads and horns only, leaving the meat to waste, was accepted and legal.

Not so today. The wonton waste of game meat is illegal in every state I know of. Hunting for a big one, a "trophy" is still done by some but... if they waste the meat they are by definition a criminal and treated as such.

"Sport hunting" - Same as above.

"Only eat what you kill" - You first. After I see you eat a nice pot of rat stew or mole soufflé From skunks to possums to coyotes they expand past their available habitat and become health and property nuisances. They need to be culled and controlled.

"Leave them alone, nature knows best" - We live in an all but pristine American landscape. The "wild" is a checkerboard of little ecosystems and these ecosystems need to be managed to maintain their overall health and biodiversity.

Population swings can be disastrous causing habitat destruction and in severe cases localized extinction of wildlife. Hunting is used as a management tool by professional wildlife managers to level out the population swings and maximizes the health of wild places.

Sure, we could just go to a non-management management policy and live with the consequences but people like seeing healthy, thriving wildlife populations and hunting provides that.

What's more, about 30,000,000 people hunt and they have every bit as much right to share in America's wildlife resources as non-hunters do; even if they are BBQing a little of it if they're lucky

"Hunting isn’t needed - So? Either is NASCAR lol

People don't need to grow a garden or pick berries either. We can get all we want at the local supermarket. But many enjoy the challenge, being outside, harvesting their own, spending the day, week, season doing those things (including hunting) with their families rather than sitting in front of the tube and then eating a nice factory farmed supper of prepackaged trash and chemical saturated dead cow.

There is no evil in killing your own dinner. None. And I believe it is intellectually dishonest to pretend it is.

No animal has ever been reduced to extinction by regulated sport hunting. Not ever.

No other segment of society gives more to wildlife conservation than sportsmen do.

Sportsmen provide more than 75% of the annual income of the 50 state conservation agencies.

Sportsmen contribute over $1.7 Billion every year for conservation programs benefiting all wildlife for all Americans to enjoy.

100's of hunter based conservation organizations donate 1000's and 1000’s of volunteer labor hours to conservation projects ever year.

Hunting is a fun, beneficial, family oriented activity and wildlife thrives today because of it, not in spite of it.

Thank you. I'll now entertain questions for the rest of the time I have left

 

[wooderson]

"Fair chase" huh?

Is that why every sporting goods store in Texas sells a blind to sit in, a salt lick to entice the buck and a few automatic corn feeders to keep them in your area?


In response to:

Why is an elephant more valuable to you than a deer, or a cow, or a chicken?

and the many variations of this ('it's illogical to be anti-hunting if you eat meat' and 'you only care about the pretty animals' and so on) - nonsense.

There's nothing illogical or bizarre about treating different groups of animals in different ways. Companion animals, work animals, pests, 'wild beasts' and so on. It's an integral part of human psychology and the product of hundreds of generations of co-socialization.

My hunting concern is not with the morality of animal treatment. That personal can only be applied to my actions. So I don't hunt.

I'm concerned with the state of mind of the killer. There was a video going around once where some nerdy kid videotaped his tarantula killing a mouse that had been used solely for the videotaping (as pet tarantulas generally eat crickets). I consider that morally objectionable behavior - not because I'm opposed to spiders eating or concerned about mice, but because I think there's something wrong in the head when you enjoy seeing a mouse die and derive pleasure from broadcasting the same.