Any American citizens of hispanic/latino background here?

[stillamarine]

The main problem with illegals is that they are poor........Poverty is a bad thing. Poor people are statistically inclined towards illness, crime and countless other ills. Thanks to the socialism that has crept into our system, it is also an expensive thing for us, slowly eating away at our health care system and our government's solvency.

Hmm So I must be a vermin...or an illegal. I gew up poor as did everybody in my neighborhood.

Oh maybe the guys that I knew in the Marine Corps that were on government subsidies because the military didn't pay them enough to feed their families are illegals??

That is the biggest load of .... That I have ever heard. Thier is a problem with people being poor??? Yes it sucks, yes some people take advantage of the system...but soem people can't help it. Some people work thier tail off and barely scrape by. I have been their in my life.

You know what we need? Some of these people that think being poor is a choice....need to do like that movie Trading Places with Dan Akyrod and Eddie Murphy. Learn what it's like than come back and talk to me

 

[GoRon]

The reason they are called illegals is because they have broken the law to get in the US. They then continue o break the law by staying.

I am honestly less worried about the folks that are here already than the ones that are going to come. Time to turn off the spigot of illegal entry. Time for a cooling off period of assimulation.

It makes no sense to let anyone who wants just waltz right in and take up residence ahead of those going through the right channels.

The Mexican community is close to if not overtly taking a position that Mexicans have a right/entitlement to come to this country. That is wrong, they are allowed in at our pleasure.

Fighting against border control and labeling us proponants of border control as racists is way more divisive than anything the Minutemen have done. By fighting against border control they are fighting to keep the United States vulnerable to attack by our enemies.

 

[Ezekiel]

Good thread!

If so, does the more violent rhetoric of some anti-immigrant folks give you cause for concern?

Well, I think it is highly hypocritical as, for Americans, there is no such psuedo-moral thing as "legal immigration." (The whole damned place is stolen land, deal with it.)

Saying, for example (metaphor), "I'm Irish and my people have been here for 3 generations," merely means you've had three generations in support of the great myth: that you are any more justified in being here than someone who walked across a ravine. :banghead:

(If folks think differently, then they MUST be in support of citizenship by virtue of live birth, or time-observed standing, in this country: because that's all they've got.)

That being said, I am not one of those American Indian-types who desires to go "back to the way it was." Those folks are a bunch of romanticizing fools. There were tribes that made Serbs and Croats look like best buddies and it all gets whitewashed into what an angelic place this was before white men. (Bah!) "That's crap."

It is all pretty complex, and I am enjoying this thread.

 

[wingman]

It is all pretty complex, and I am enjoying this thread.

Not really complex it is simply holding the ground you have. By law it is
illegal to enter this "ground" America without approval. Now if you wish
open borders then how many can we take in, at what point will the system
fail.

Our present border system is broke, too many coming, some good people,
but on the other hand many very bad. Who is at fault, our government, the
Mexican government and the wealthy on both sides. Subsidized labor paid for
by the middle-class is like drugs it becomes additive.

If we continue on our present path of importing poor under educated people,
exporting jobs in huge numbers we will in time become a third world country,
and it would be far less painful to stop it now then in 20 years. I don't believe
we can be apathetic any longer.

 

[mp510]

I'm quarter Italian, and my grandmother came here from Italy (via UK) legally and later became a US Citizen. She still has a thick Italian accent, despite being here since the early 50's, and is often discriminated against because people believe she is a Latina.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Kevin wheeler:
Yep. "The only place the far right and far left hold hands is around the neck of the Jew."
-----------------------------

What the @*#! ? I consider myself right wing/conservative, I have absolutely no problem with Jews. I would imagine that most Americans take great pride in what this nations' people -both right and left wing- have done for the Jewish people. What exactly do you mean by that statement?
-------------------------------------------
Cousin Mike wrote:
The economical issues are especially upsetting to us. I'm currently trying to find more stable work in the construction trades - need I say more?
-------------------------------------------

I know EXACTLY what you mean by that. Im in New Orleans. Now this is in New Orleans, where you would think a carpenter could name his price due to the amount of work/storm damage repair - but the bulk of the construction companies in the area are made up of illegals who are being paid under the table (no taxes taken out) and are working for 10.00 per hour. Its very typical to find 10 or 15 illegals sharing a one bedroom apartment, and send 1/2 of thier money back to Mexico. I have seen first hand how illegals drive down sallaries, particularly in the construction industry, and in lawn maintanance. Carpenters, roofers, and drywall men should be making well over 20 bucks an hour in this area.
To keep this gun related, yes I do carry a pistol on me all day, there are way to many illegals in this area to feel safe unarmed. They broke the law getting here, didnt they? Says something about how much they respect the laws of this nation.

 

[lionking]

quote;Can anyone who believes that illegals do not want to learn English please furnish something resembling solid evidence of this position? "I went to town and saw a sign in spanish" does not prove that all, most, many, or illegals in general do not want to learn english

if you live where it is predominately spanish you will see there is really no need for recent immigrants to learn english....trust me on that.

America is one of the most generous nations,but to have a open door policy will hurt this country.

You should see the rules for a person to immigrate to Mexico.You must be a professional,and if yoy are retired you must be able to support yourself because if you dont you go to jail....

Here in Miami county run Jackson Hospital is millions in debt because people come here from South America for medical treatment then skip back to South America leaving the debt on taxpayers.

really its not cold hearted to not want to give free everything to illegal immigrants,there are private charities that would do this.

 

[Cousin Mike]

If you make less than about 50k (It might be a bit less or more) per year, you are taking more out of the system than you are putting in.

Then about 70% of this country is a burden on itself if that's the case... I'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

The main problem with illegals is that they are poor........Poverty is a bad thing. Poor people are statistically inclined towards illness, crime and countless other ills.

Already been commented on, but I couldn't ignore this one.

I don't know exactly how you meant this one beerslurpy - we all know that for a fact, but what would you have us do? Sounds like in your way of thinking, we should just take everyone who doesn't make as much money as you and throw them into the sea.

I dunno how I feel about that.

 

[longeyes]

For those of you who want to keep rationalizing illegal immigration, remember that you are rationalizing the lawlessness of our government and, increasingly, our business community, while you are undermining the social cohesion and, above all, the sovereignty of this nation. If you want Mexico, keep importing Mexicans; you are bringing in a culture, not just cheap labor. All of this will end with ugly internecine war, well observed in so many other societies around the world.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Don't think I've seen anyone here advocating/rationalizing/in favor of illegal immigration - disagreeing with one point someone makes doesn't automatically mean that shootinstudent or anyone else is rationalizing illegal immigration. What I think some are saying is that racism is definitely a factor.

What ever happened to the middle ground? If there's one thing I hate about THR sometimes, it's this:

You give an opinion on something that doesn't go 100% with the sentiment of the crowd... Then you're classified as completely right-wing extremist, or completely left-wing extremist - depending on what you had to say...

What's up with the stupidass mob mentality? Is individuality and one's right to his/her own opinion REALLY such a negative thing?

People can disagree on fine points, and still agree on major issues... It's called being a normal person with your own thoughts and feelings. Not everyone has to have their opinion fed to them on an internet forum... Some folks are quite capable of thinking for themselves.

Just my $0.02... as always, you got it for free.

Ain't that just ducky?

 

[shootinstudent]

Is illegal immigration a problem?

Absolutely.

Is it so bad that we should spend trillions of dollars and turn America into a police state to combat it?

Absolutely not.

Is racism towards hispanic peoples part of the anti-illegal movement?

Yes.

It's amazing. You get (judging by the pictures) a bunch of white people mobbing together with American flags, and then posting on internet boards about a coming "race war", only to feign shock that some people (hispanics even!) might tend to perceive the motivations of these people as racist in nature?

We should try to stop illegal immigration, but living in a society where people are not harrassed because of their race is important also. Having a country where every hispanic looking person is stopped and asked for proof of citizenship at every corner is something to avoid too, and the racial division that would result is imo much more dangerous than illegal immigration.

 

[beerslurpy]

Poverty is bad when it counts as a mechanism by which people can dip into my pockets. I was born into poverty but my family never took a dime from any charity or the government. We lived frugally and we worked our way out of it. The illegals are not. They use our emergency rooms, they send their children to our schools, collect from our public services and soon they want to vote in our elections.

It isnt our responsibility to provide foreign nationals with opportunities to get ahead, and it sure as hell isnt our responsibility to make sure they are healthy, well fed and educated. The idea of allowing them representation in our government is plainly insane.

 

[ArmedBear]

a coming "race war",

Now of course, people who hate Latinos will also hate Latino illegal immigrants. Duh.

However, the "race war" is something that organized Chicano groups have called for, and acknowledging this is hardly "racist." Educate yourself, if you don't know this; stop lying if you do.

Furthermore, the state of California provides support for some of these groups, despite their racism. The take-home message is, "Racism is great, as long as you're not white. If you're a white racist, you're evil. But no one else has to live up to that standard, even to use state resources for their organizations."

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~mecha/planaztlan1.html

Now tell me, is the motto "For La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada." not racist?

(It means "For the Race all. Outside the Race nothing.")

Do I advocate that the Klan get state money? Hell no! Neither should La Raza or MeChA, though.

 

[Cousin Mike]

Thanks for clearing that up, beerslurpy.

FWIW, I agree 100%.. and I wasn't trying to be an agitator - I knew the way that statement came across was not the way you necessarily meant it.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

the video

does tell a lot. more telling is how little the attitudes on video offend some folks. but then again ones right to be a bigot is protected... sorta.theres a link above where a guy was crying about being attacked. "just for waving an american flag" theres a short shot of his van and his driving it into the demonstration was tantamount to wearing a white sheet in harlem. were the folks who attacked his van wrong? absolutely! was he a moron for deliberately provoking a mob? hmmmm
remeinds me of the guy who got in charles barkleys face after barkley lost a game. got head handed to him. heck judge asked the dweeeb" what were you thinking?!"

there are a fair number of folks real active in the "movements" on both sides that bring lil good to their images. those movements would be wise to police their less attractive members.

 

[whofan]

.5 Latin Here

Mother-Peruvian of Spanish, Italian, and Indian decent.
Grand parents, see above. I was born here before they emmigrated here, though.

Father-German/Irish. His mother emmigrated from Ireland around 1900-1910. His father born here. 3rd Generation American of German ancestory.

My maternal grandparents lived back and forth between Peru and the US for many years before becomming permanant residents sometime in the mid to late '70's.

I speak no Spanish and have no allegience/feelings for any country except the US. No one bothers me about being .5 Hispanic.

My mother always said that illegal Hispanic trouble makers made all Latinos look bad. She hated them with a passion.

My position is that the southern border should be made airtight.

 

[beerslurpy]

It's cool.

shootingstudent, you are creating a false dichotomy. We can solve the immigration problem without turning the country into a police state.

Three easy steps:
1) We already have to show papers to work- having to show non-forged papers is the only improvement we need. This cuts off the employers from getting their fix of cheap labor. Punish violators severely and allow local police to keep half the fines collected. We have all the manpower in place already.

2) Actually start deporting criminals that turn out to be illegal aliens. If you get pulled over or arrested, you should serve your time (if convicted) and then you should be deported regardless of the outcome of the trial.

3) Spend the 5 billion dollars and build a wall and have border patrol watch it. This way the people we eject in step 2 dont come back over and become our problem again. It should NEVER be possible for an illegal to accumulate 17 DUIs before finally being arrested for the one that kills someone. He should get pulled over for the first one and never be heard from again in this country.

 

[shootinstudent]

However, the "race war" is something that organized Chicano groups have called for, and acknowledging this is hardly "racist." Educate yourself, if you don't know this; stop lying if you do.

Okay, what does that have to do with a group of anti-illegal protestors being:

almost 100 percent white AND having some members bashing hispanic culture and talking about preparing for "race war" online? I'm not sure of what your claim is here.

Does the fact that some hispanic extremist groups talk about race war mean that hispanics shouldn't be worried about racism? Or are you claiming something else?

Furthermore, the state of California provides support for some of these groups, despite their racism. The take-home message is, "Racism is great, as long as you're not white. If you're a white racist, you're evil. But no one else has to live up to that standard, even to use state resources for their organizations."

Okay, the motto is from the plandeaztlan, a radical "chicano" (whatever that means) manifesto from decades ago. It is not:

1. The motto of La Raza nor is it

2. The motto of MeCha

Neither La Raza nor MeCha have ever called for race war, or for expelling whites, or for laws that would lead America LEO's to start checking whites' papers every time they leave the house.

I do not like either La Raza or MeCha, because they are in my opinion racist organizations. But they certainly aren't telling their members to stock up on ammo for a coming race war....which is something I see all the time on discussions where anti-illegal immigrant types get involved.

 

[Cousin Mike]

cassandrasdaddy:



Man... you seem to have a way with words thats just brilliant in it's simplicity. If you ever find yourself in Columbus, we need to go get a brew and shoot the sh*t.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Of course, some people wouldn't see a problem wearing white sheets in Harlem either. I'd be willing to bet these same people would cry and complain about how they were randomly attacked when the brothas uptown put a hurtin' on their ass too...

Ah well.. what would life be without crybaby antagonists?

 

[ArmedBear]

almost 100 percent white AND having some members bashing hispanic culture and talking about preparing for "race war" online? I'm not sure of what your claim is here.

Well, the "other side" is almost 100% hispanic AND has some members bashing American culture and talking about specific plans for starting a "race war" online. That's my claim. And they're doing it with California state funds.

Does the fact that some hispanic extremist groups talk about race war mean that hispanics shouldn't be worried about racism? Or are you claiming something else?

They can worry all they want, but on a daily basis, it's a complete non-issue here in San Diego. Where are you?

Now, if you're saying that only hispanic "extremists" are talking about a "race war", while in the world of Whitey the idea is mainstream, that's downright ridiculous. Few people really give a crap. That's why you have frustrated extremists, and politicians from both parties who pay little attention to them.

Neither La Raza nor MeCha have ever called for race war, or for expelling whites

You are a liar, or you can't read.

"Aztlán belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans. We do not recognize capricious frontiers on the bronze continent."

"Our struggle then must be for the control of our barrios, campos, pueblos, lands, our economy, our culture, and our political life."

"Lands rightfully ours will be fought for and defended. Land and realty ownership will be acquired by the community for the people's welfare. Economic ties of responsibility must be secured by nationalism and the Chicano defense units."

 

[TX35]

cassandrasdaddy, Your whole analogy equates to "it's a womens fault at being raped for wearing a short skirt". Sorry, but it's total BS!!! So, if your wife or girlfriend is at the mall looking kinda sexy in skirt, & she gets sexually assaulted, it must be HER fault!!! ANYONE in America should be able to wave the US flag in this country without fear of being attacked!!!

 

[shootinstudent]

Well, the "other side" is almost 100% hispanic AND has some members bashing American culture and talking about specific plans for starting a "race war" online. That's my claim. And they're doing it with California state funds

What does this have to do with the feelings of hispanic americans towards anti-illegal immigration rhetoric and racism?

They can worry all they want, but on a daily basis, it's a complete non-issue here in San Diego. Where are you?

Sometimes Northern California, sometimes Central Texas, sometimes Canberra. I speak spanish nearly as well as I speak english, and I certainly think it's an issue with spanish speakers and their non-spanish speaking relatives and children.

Now, if you're saying that only hispanic "extremists" are talking about a "race war", while in the world of Whitey the idea is mainstream, that's downright ridiculous. Few people really give a crap. That's why you have frustrated extremists, and politicians from both parties who pay little attention to them.

Not really the point I was making. Think of it this way instead: If you worry about Hispanic extremists, why wouldn't you expect hispanics to worry just as much about white extremists, especially when they're vocal and people make excuses for their extreme "get your guns ready" talk, like "well....it's the fault of the illegals that they're loading up!"?

You are a liar, or you can't read.

You might want to actually read up on your own topics before you accuse me of illiteracy or dishonesty.

El Plan de Aztlan was formulated before MeCha was even an organization. MeCha has its own charter and motto: "La Union Hace La Fuerza".

La Raza is completely unconnected to "El Plan de Aztlan."

You are citing a document not written by MeCha or La Raza, and then claiming that these groups promulgated the document.

You might try, for example, reading MeCha chapter to websites to see what the MeCha motto and charter are, like U of H, for example: http://www.mechadeuh.com/public_html/mexa_facts_and_myths.htm

 

[Art Eatman]

If folks want to discuss Aztlan, La Raz or MeCha, take it to http://www.armedpolitesociety.com

Or we can see this thread closed...

, Art

 

[Biker]

Shootinstudent...

Would you support a caucasion org that referred to itself as "The Race?" Give them national TV time? Support them with fed funds?


Biker

 

[Biker]

Oops...posted before seeing Art's post.

Biker