Any Locksmiths in the house? or I'M BUYING A GUN SAFE THREAD!

[dukeofurl]

I went to sams today to window shop for some dental floss, beer, and a vending machine and I found the Winchester Club Safe they made special for Sams.

Specs are as follows:

$600

Fire Protection - Safe interior does not exceed 350ºF for 32 minutes
when subjected to a 1200ºF fire.

• Underwriter Laboratories Listed Burglary Protection - U. L. listed residential
security container and gun safe. Winchester safes exceed rigid U.L. test standards.

• Electronic U.L. Listed Lock

• Laser Cut Door - Provides the tightest fitting door in the industry.

• 12 gauge - thick steel body construction

• 3/16” - thick solid steel door

• 1” Thick Door Jamb - Solid steel, not formed sheet metal

• 1” Diameter Locking Bolts - Assures complete lock-up of door

• Door Length Dead Locking System - Assures 100% mechanical lock-up of door
on the hinged side of door.This prevents opening of the door even if the hinges are
cut off in a burglary attack.

• External Hinges - Adjustable, ball bearing, external hinges allow 180º of door swing,
unlike internal hinges that allow approximately 80º - 85º of door swing.

• Bolt down Holes - 3 pre-drilled 7/16” diameter holes for 3/8” anchor bolts

• Dehumidifier access hole

• 4-in-1 Interior - 12 gun Left-hand, 12 gun Right-hand, 24 gun, or All shelves

• Dimensions - 60” H x 30” W x 22” D

• Color - Black Textured

• Weight - 575 lbs.

I also got the business catalog and the size of that safe is just above their smallest safe. The sizes go...

Combo models

Small: 55x23x20 $639
Medium: 60x30x24 $723
Large: 60x36x27 $1199
Larger: 60x40x27 - three compartmnets wide $1399
The Ted Nugent: 72x40x27 - three compartmnets wide $ 1598

Do I buy almost three value safes that are smaller or go with the ted?

Ah, decisions....

Now, I *HATE ELECTRONIC COMBO LOCKS* with a passion. Why? I'm not a boy scout....

Electronic locks can be defeated. thanks to our friend graphite powder, we can find out which fingers press the most buttons. I'm wondering how cost effective swapping an electronic lock to a combination lock is. Anyone?

 

[Mr. Loud Guns]

Can you buy me one?

 

[chris in va]

I noticed today it's time to change my combo on the keypad. Certain numbers are wearing off...

 

[BigSlick]

Well fingers or not an S&G lock is some kind of a PITA to break.

My uncle (72 yrs old) has been a safe man for over 40 years. He opens safes for jewelry stores, cash in the box owners who forgot the combination etc.. even some banks if they are old enough.

I had a long talk with him about locks, electronic locks and safes in general before I bought mine. His recommendation, based on his experience was that Ft. Knox was the best 'affordable' safe for a private individual, with some options.

The S&G electronic locks give you three tries to get the combo right, then lock out for 30 minutes (newer ones an hour), come with glass breaks and will not drill out without permanently closing the lock.

Fire protection is often hyped up. The average house fire burns in the vacinity of 1300 degrees, for about 30 minutes as a national norm. This is all the fire protection most people ever need. If you store chemicals, or live in a house that has stone or concrete subfloor between the first and second (or more) stories, the fire can burn hotter.

The main purpose of a safe is to protect from fire or theft until LE or FD arrive, this is of course assuming you have a monitored alarm system and live in a somewhat reachable area. If you live in a cave in the boondocks, a more secure setup may be better.

ANY safe can be penetrated. Any safe available in the price range you list regardless of dial mechanism can be penetrated in less than 15 minutes by someone intent on opening a safe before they arrive. Most professional thieves don't sit around trying to guess the combo, or drill out a lock, that's Hollywood crap.

Most of the criminals who know they are going to hit a safe, make a trip by Home Depot and pickup a cross cut concrete saw with a carbide blade. Many that can be had for less than $200 have more than enough horsepower to cut a hole in your safe and open it like a can of tuna. A 6" blade model will cut thru most 12 guage steel like a hot knife thru butter. That's why MOST safe mfrs offer liner kit upgrades, in either steel or stainless steel. They can still be cut, but it will take longer to get there.

This buys more time for LE to respond.

Most small time burglary thugs might beat your safe with whatever they can get their hands on or be dumb enough to try and use a cutting torch. Either of these usually proves to be a futile attempt.

Someone hell bent on getting your safe open, will most likely follow you in (or your family or friends) with a gun to your head, and give you the choice of opening the safe or being shot.

So, the bottom line is a safe is a partial measure to protecting your weapons. Hell yes it is a great thing to have, but one lock over another isn't going to make a huge difference and anyone determined to get into your safe isn't going to give a damn about your fingers, unless it's deciding which one to cut off to make you open the safe.

Do a little research before dropping any money on a safe, and read the fine print and details. You will find there is a WIDE variance in bang for your buck where a safe is concerned.

FWIW

BigSlick

 

[frenchwrench]

I checked out the same safe at Sam's about three months ago. When I asked to have it opened so I could see the interior,the store manager had to put batteries in before he could open it. To put batteries in you push the electronic lock disc up the face of the safe and you turn it around to see two wires going into the interior!! Looks pretty easy to defeat.But it defeated the manager because I never did get to see the inside because they couldn't get it to work. I bought a Liberty at Gander Mountain the next day.

 

[Primersinmyshoe]

Here's a pic of the Winchester safe offered at Sam's. I am very happy with it. I have added interior rope lights and a Goldenrod dehumidifier. The safe is anchored to the basement floor and I built a wall around it when I built my reloading room.

 

[0007]

BigSlick pretty much has the right of it. A safe will keep the petty crack heads out, but a professional goblin who knows what he is doing AND who knows you have a safe and wants to aquire what is in it will get in(as long as noise is not a problem) in about 10 minutes. For the record, my best time into a Mosler weapons vault with an S&G 8500 was 2 1/2 hours from initial start of the drill to completed plugging of the hole and installation of new lock. And that's a class five safe.

 

[Librarian]

Safe Classifications: Insurers Advisory Organization (IAO), classes for rating:
1) Class 1 Safe: Fire resistant with combination lock. Tested to resist temperature rise, dropping, explosion, interior temperature changes. Not good protection against burglar attack (has expansion joints, insulating material, baffles to radiate and control the flow of heat, light gauge steel construction to resist warping when hot, wheels, tongue/groove flanges of door, wooden interior).
Label Terminology of Burglar Resistant Safes:
DR = Drill TR = Torch TL = Tool TX = Torch/Explosives
(Followed by a number which is the minimum number of minutes needed to break open safe).
2) Class 2 Safe: Low commercial cash risks; 1” steel body, 1.5” steel door, combination lock; fastened in some way as weight is low.
3) Class 3 Safe: Average cash risks; burglar resistant safe; DR, UL, TL - 30 label.
4) Class 4 Safe: TRTL 30, TR 30, (X 60 deleted today).
5) Class 5 Safe: Highly burglar resistant; TR 60, TRTL 60, TXTL 60, TX 60, TRTL 30X6; very rare class.

Can't decide if a TL-15 is class 2 or 3 - 2.5? Maybe a 3 if it's heavy enough?

 

[CB900F]

Dukeofurl;

I'd suggest doing a search for Residential Securtiy Containers. Also, visit the Brown site & the FAQ's there.

In my professional opinion, as a locksmith who specializes in selling safes, not RSC's, the Winnie will keep out a determined 12 year old, but for how long?

As for some of the above comments on the fire protection. Please, go to your professional local fire department & get it straight from the 'horses mouth' as it were.

900F

 

[grimjaw]

Primersinmyshoe

That's a nice setup. Wish I had the space to set up a workshop of any kind.

jmm

 

[Hardware]

I was discussing fire safety ratings with a fireman and shooter recently. His response was that firemen in modern protective gear can operate in a 1200 degree room for a half hour if needed. He also mentioned that the real damage is going to be done to your gun by the carpet and plumbing in your house. Fire is going to release chloride gas and when firemen start dumping water on the fire the resulting steam is going to combine with the chloride and create hydrochloric acid. Unless your guns are in an airtight safe they are going to be trashed in an hour. The acid is going to destroy the rifling and strip the finish off the stocks. And the fire department isn't going to let you into your house for an hour. More likely they aren't letting you in for a day, assuming they don't condemn the structure entirely.

Buy the safe that keeps the guns out of the crackheads hands and buy home insurance. Keep pictures and a record of serial numbers offsite in case of disaster.

 

[CB900F]

Hardware;

There are units that don't allow your scenario to occur. Of course, those units are real safes, with intumescent seals on the door that effectively prevent fire gasses from entering the safe.

Safes, true safes, cost more than Dr. Feelgood RSC's like Liberty, Browning, Cannon, etc. But then you get more too. The thing I find rather disgusting is that an upper end Liberty closely approaches a safe in price, but offers all of about 20% of the protection.

900F