Centurion Vault by Liberty Safe

[MinnMooney]

Ash, I really appreciate the time and effort and knowledge that CB900F & a1abdj bring to this forum. If you dislike their opinions and advise then please look elsewhere for the information that you would like but please don't trash the two people who are trying (& succeding to to some degree) to answer our questions. What, exactly, are you trying to prove?

akodo (post #13) really hit the nail on the head by saying exactly what is running thru a lot of gun owners' minds. We ARE safe-buying neophites and it is difficult to find honest, knowledgable advise when looking for a safe. None of us want a steel box that any moron thief can break into in under 5 minutes (if you don't believe me then look in YouTube and search safe cracking to see a couple of idiots w/a crowbar and a maul) or have it's contents reduced to blackened ash by a house fire. We want a safe that can 1.) keep our weapons out of the hands of children, 2.) Make it a lot of work for a thief to get at the contents when no one is home, 3.) have a reasonable expectation that when we open the safe after a house fire that the contents will be as good as before the fire, 4.) that it has enough room for all of our weapons that we now have plus a little reserve for future purchases, 5.) a lock that opens the 1st time and every time (my elec. lock on my Snap-On doesn't) and, preferably, w/o glasses, and 6.) has a warranty that will cover the safe for repair/replacement if it gets damaged during a fire or break-in attempt. And all of this for a reasonable cost. Like many have said, if you have $1500 in guns and valuables then a $4000 safe makes little sense but when you have $5m - $10m worth of guns and valuables, a worthy safe is a great investment. Remember - a safe is still worth a lot of money 20 - 30 yrs from now when it's passed on to your heirs.

 

[Ash]

VAR, Minn, man, don't be jerks. I had already freakin' apologized many damn hours before your pile-ons. You want another pound of flesh??? Man, there are other forums out there and perhaps I should just go there.

Ash

 

[lonegunman]

I'm just a guy reading thru, but like everyone else I have an opinion.

If you have 1500 dollars worth of guns in your closet, then maybe a 600 dollar box is good enough to keep them away from the kids and local druggies who will kick in your door. If you and a buddy installed it , the crook and a buddy can remove it twice as fast.

One the other hand, if you have 15,000 dollars worth of guns, family heirlooms and your wife has 10,000 worth of jewelry then maybe you need to find a professional and get a real chunk of security for 2-3000 dollars. Spending 10% of the cost of the valuables is modest.

If you have a 1000 dollar deductible on your homeowners and knowing that most max at 5K for guns and 10K or less for jewelry do you really want to go cheap and hope for the best?

No matter what insurance peddler you have selling you their line of crap, they never,"make you whole" again. There are no replacements for dad's pre-war S&W or your grandmother's ruby and diamond bracelet that will ever be the same.

I have been robbed, it sucks. I owned an AMSEC safe that was bolted to the floor and it was left untouched and intact. My tools and other things wandered off. The insurance company replaced what I could remember having but it took a couple of years to get all the little bits and pieces back. Cops are as useful as three legged dogs around here and let's face it, they really could care less.

So, spend what you feel comfortable given the level of risk and difficulty of replacement. Cheap safes are like cheap motorcycle helmets, it is often to late when you realize you should have spent the extra money.

 

[Oana]

I second (third? tenth?) the request for some sort of Gun Safes for Dummies. I'm sure there's something already online, maybe the more knowledgeable members could point us there? It's just that all the ratings, criteria, etc. are confusing. Where can we find a basic rundown that we can look at, whether we want to store two dozen guns and a stash of jewelry or two guns and some ammo?

 

[CB900F]

Oana;

Go to www.corneredcat.com & find the article there entitled "Securing Firearms In The Home". If that doesn't answer your questions, please feel free to PM me.

900F

 

[Ash]

VAR, you must be very strong to break the bolts securing the safe, er, I mean, rsc, to the floor.

I thought you knew that is what folks did. What was that about an honest discussion?

Ash

 

[VARifleman]

Depends what bolts, what it's bolted into, if it's even bolted in at all. Some think 500 lbs is a lot to move and lose because of it.

 

[Ash]

Yeah, some would. Made a bit of a jump, though, didn't you?

Ash

 

[VARifleman]

Oh, one other thing...shear strength of the steel. You won't break the bolts before you tear the bolts out through the steel.

 

[a1abdj]

Oh, one other thing...shear strength of the steel. You won't break the bolts before you tear the bolts out through the steel.

This is demostrated on YouTube (search for "Security On Sale") where the pop the door on a Liberty Centurion in less than 2 minutes using a pry bar.

The size of the bolts don't really mean a thing when they are held in place by 12 gauge steel.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

And many RSC's are not made with plate steel frames. They employ the body sheet metal folded a few times, the number varies among the brands, to retain the bolts. Folding does not tend to enhance the structural strength of sheet metal.

If one goes to Youtube & views the video "Security On Sale", it's possible to see a graphic demonstration of the effectiveness of this type of construction.

900F

 

[Ash]

Guys, you are not going to pop washered bolts out of 12 or 10 ga steel. Implying otherwise is not being very honest.

The youtube video does open ones eyes, but nobody I knows keeps their "safe" in the middle of their room. The truth still is there is far more to security than merely having a safe or "safe".


Ash

 

[a1abdj]

Guys, you are not going to pop washered bolts out of 12 or 10 ga steel. Implying otherwise is not being very honest.

This depends on what you're using to pop them out with, and what it's bolted into.

I regularly remove drop safes from a local mall that are bolted into concrete. I usually use a $20 hydraulic bottle jack wedged against one of the hinges. If the installer used really good bolts, sometimes the bottom of the safe will deform before the bolts let loose from the concrete. Usually, the 1/4" plate is stronger than the grip on the conrete and they pop right out.

On 10 or 12 gauge steels (1/8" and 1/10"), if the bolts were in good, and I had a 6' pry bar, I can assure you the bolts will pop out of the steel before they do the concrete. The nice thing about the thinner steels is that it does give more than plate steel. This would actually increase the time it would take to break it loose, as the safe would deform first.

The youtube video does open ones eyes, but nobody I knows keeps their "safe" in the middle of their room.

I don't think it matters what part of the room it's in. Placing it on the left doesn't make the thin steel any stronger than placing it on the right, or in the middle.

I deliver around 20 gun safes a week. I've placed them everywhere you can imagine. About the only place I've never put one is bolted upside down to the ceiling. I'm sure eventually somebody will ask me to do that as well.

The truth still is there is far more to security than merely having a safe or "safe".

That's true.

Between the safe manufacturers making you believe that your "safe" will protect you against a 6 hour attack, and ADT making you believe that the police will be there in 30 seconds.....

 

[Ash]

But that means you would have to rip a 1" diameter hole, times four (or two then two). Then, you would have to deal with the wall behind the safe, which means you would have to destroy the wall behind or to the side (and in my case, there are 3 sides defending the safe). So, there is far more to it than merely prying loose a safe in the middle of a floor.

Ash

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

An RSC is an RSC! They are relatively easy to get into even without the combination. Thin sheet metal does not equal high security, and no matter how deeply that offends, it's still true.

This thread is beginning to remind me of the instance when a state's legislature passed a law to define the value of Pi.

900F

 

[Ash]

Says the guy who has a financial stake in the matter.

Listen, no matter how much you trash your competition, they are not nearly so bad as you exaggerate.

Ash

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Wild advertising claims, and yes Ash they can be found in any brochure do check Liberty for instance, do not equate with security. They are not only bad, they are disgustingly bad, because they lead people to believe that they have good security when in fact they have an easily compromised RSC.

This is a case where the rule of 80/20 is demonstrably true. It really is possible to pay 80% as much for an RSC that gives 20% of the protection of a true safe.

You can lead a horse to water - - - -.
I'm done here.

900F

 

[Ash]

I'm not defending Liberty. I would never pay extra, sometimes insanely extra, for decals and glossy paint. But there are many places where your products cannot even be used. So, your advice, it would seem, would be to trash the house for not being able to support the weight of the safe?

By the way, my family owns a safe. Yeah, a real-deal safe. It's about 2 feet wide, 3 feet tall, and about 2 1/2 feet deep and is on wheels. Indeed, I am surprised at how many actually ARE on wheels. In any case, it is very, very, very heavy. You are welcome to feel disdain for Liberty and their advertising. I'm not a fan of them, either.

I am not a fan of wild exaggerations regardless of where they come.

Ash

 

[VARifleman]

After talking to Frank, we agreed that a Zanotti Armor RSC would best suit my needs and protection level. If you actually call them up and talk to them about what you are protecting they'll help you determine what suits your needs best.

 

[strambo]

I really appreciate all the info CB900F & a1abdj have provided over the years. Do a search, they have covered every conceivable question very well. So well, that I did a search and copy & pasted many posts into a word doc for my reference later when I go to buy.

One of those guys (a1abdj I believe) does sell a no-name brand RSC for a very reasonable cost that has better specs than any Liberty for less $$. If you want an RSC that's fine, just know what you are getting and don't pay more than what it's worth (when better can be had for the same $$).

Anyway, I appreciate the info guys even if some jaded members don't. I doubt you are making a killing selling high end safes to THR memebrs that they don't need.

Question, will a typical 2nd story support an AMSEC BF 20-30 gun RSC?

 

[Ash]

Oh, I agree, their opinions are most certainly valuable and appreciated. And, VAR did the right thing by having a conversation one on one to determine his needs.

Ash

 

[woodone]

My take on choosing a safe

I make a product that adds practicality to owning and living with a RSC or a Safe. I work with Distributors and Manufactures of both Safe and 'Residential Security Containers'.

The true test results only come in after a safe consumer has gone through a break in attempt or an actual fire. NO two circumstance are the same and tests and ratings are not guarantees. I am not a security expert and respect the opinions and facts from those who are (CB900F & a1abdj). There have been some good posts from knowledgeable folks on this site. Try to absorb all the knowledge you care to until you are comfortable with your purchase.

I have seen marketing in various circumstances that exaggerate a products claims. I believe that most people are overconfident with what they see in a big-box store. But I also believe that an RSC (even the Centurion) can and does provide reasonable protection/cost/convenience for many people. With that being considered you have to ask yourself how much protection you need and you probably won't be able to answer that at Walmart. If you are buying a safe or a 'RSC' you should work with at least one specialty distributor. If you simply say they are in it for the money good luck buying anything. A reputable dealer will generally get you started in the right direction in selecting the most appropriate features.

Generally, if you are buying a safe I would consider these things. . .

1. What items do you KNOW you will protect in it?

2. What might you protect in the years to come? (How big of a safe)

3. Then prioritize your security concerns

-Tampering
-Theft
-Fire

There is also a 4th area of concern that is often not considered and that is practicality. I think of an RSC like an appliance. An appliance should increase your standard of living through an increased peace of mind. For a safe to provide protection (peace of mind) your stuff must be in it. If your stuff is in it than it must be accessible.

So, where will you place your safe and how often might you need or want to access to your stuff? Out of sight placement also leads to less usage and irresponsible usage. On the flip side accessibility for you also means accessibility for would be thieves.

My product was born out of this 'usage' logic and was launched a short time ago. The product is called 'The Safe Cloak' and can be seen at www.heirloomsafeandchest.com. It offers the option of hiding your safe while in plain view. By keeping it out of the basement or the back of a closet you are more likely to use it on a regular basis. Guns, pictures or other valuables that should be returned to the safe after use will. You will find it easier to protect items you use on a daily basis like your watch or even your wallet. In my humble opinion you cannot remove the human element out of the security equation because it is almost always the human that breaches security itself.

there I'm done. I would love feedback from all that have commented.

 

[rich0372]

I jusy bought one of these it's the Centurion CN30 Vault
By Liberty Safe. I paid 1299 with in home delivery. I know it's not the greatest but I think it's good enough for my needs. It will be in my basement so fire protection is not as big of a concern as heat rises. Plus my house has a fire alarm hooked up to my alarm system which is monitered, so the fire dept would be there quickly as I only live a few miles from them. I also have 3 dogs and alarm so I think this is good protection for me.

They have to break in kill the alarm with 3 dogs attacking them, then go to basement, unbolt safe, move it away from the 2 walls, tip it over break into it, take all the stuff.........etc I think they ran out of time.

 

[HIcarry]

I know I am a little late to the discussion, but I thought I would throw my 2 cents in anyways.
First, let me say that I spent a lot of time researching safes (and RSCs) before purchasing and one of the folks I spoke to was Frank (a1abdj) who spent a lot of time answering my e-mails on the subjects. I see a lot of the same sage advice being given here. And just to illustrate the point that Frank (and I assume CB900F as well) do not seem to have any hidden agendas (ie trying to sell you one of their products) in attempting to provide information on what can be a very complex and confusing subject, let me tell you what he said to me after spending all that time educating me. As some background, I live in Hawaii and the choices for safes are limited and the costs are considerably above what most of you on the mainland could get. After doing all of my research, I found a company that would ship my desired safe (AMSEC BF6030) at a combined price that was less than anything I could get locally. Because Frank had invested so much time I felt I owed him my business, even if I didn't get the best price. When I told him what the "other" company could do, he didn't hesitate telling me that he couldn't beat the price (with the shipping) and that I should buy from them. Frank is a honest and ethical businessman and I would suggest that anyone here take his advice as the sincere attempt to educate he means it to be.
Thanks Frank! And FYI...my safe is being installed tomorrow, I'll shoot you some pictures when it's done.
Aloha