Any rifles for a .357Mag OTHER THAN Lever?

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twoblink

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I know there are a few lever actions on the market that shoot 357Mags. Timberwolf use to make a pump (which I want).

I know Ruger makes a .44Mag Bolt action..

Is there a bolt action, or pump that is currently being made for a 357Mag?
 
IMI Timberwolf kits are avalible from Old Sacramento Armory for $180 or so.


The kits are missing 14 or so small parts but all parts included are new (at least on mine) Any good gunsmith/machinest will be able to assemble and finish.
 
Cool! Time for me to save up for a Timberwolf then!

The idea of packing a 6" revolver, with a 2" snubbie for ccw, and a rifle slung on you back, all digesting the same ammo just appeals to me..
 
H&R, now Marlin-owned, is making a .357 single shot handi rifle. Reports I've heard say it's amazingly accurate and a lot of fun to shoot. I've been thinking about getting one, but will probably go with the thuddy thuddy.
 
I believe rebarreling an M1 Carbine to .357 is an available option, but I'm not 100% sure.

Kharn
 
357 Handi Rifle

I have one of the 357 Handi Rifles. It's accuracy depends on what you consider to be accurate. From talking to others, mine seems typical. Around 5-7" from a bench at 100 yds no matter what load I put through it. I have a Williams Reciever sight on it.
Trigger is excellent, and it is handy.
 
Gunsmiths are suppose to be able to redo the 30 carbine into a semi-auto 357 magnum. I think the expense would be a bit much through.
 
.......kind of unsual for them to work well in autopistols too!! They work OK in DE's and kinda well in Coonans. I have heard of Coonans working well but not very often.


OTN- methinks they would have sold alot more using a different name!


A .30 Carbine could be converted to .357mag but it would take lots of gunsmithing but it would work. The mags would be a bigger problem though! However the rounds are pretty much the same performance wise. Close up it would out perform .............but out beyond 50-75 yards all you would do is loose the accuracy & performance of the .30 Carbine. Shooting both types out of 6" revolver barrels is quite suprising at 100 yards when you see how flat the .30 Carbine is.
 
It's a logistical hurdle for me..

I like the M1Carbine a lot, but don't want to introduce YET another caliber..

I have a revolver, and so I have 357Maggies already....

Performance isn't the consideration, it's the logistics that's the consideration..

I was thinking, man, if I buy an M1Carbine, I might have to buy something like a Caspian semi-auto in .30Carbine!!

But I'd much rather have an M1Carbine in .357Mag!

Info from http://www.reloadbench.com

Length (Case), Total Length, Circum.(inside)
M1Carbine:
32.77mm,42.67,9.14,9.04

.357Mag:
32.77mm,40.39,11.18,9.63

So the case length is the same, the total length might be a problem, and the width definitely is a problem for the magazines..
 
Anybody finish one of those Timber wolfs

Are they any good?
Sights?
Action slick?
What is missing and how hard are the part to make.
What is the finish like?

Thanks
 
I know they aren't the action type you requested, but both the Contender and Encore are available in .357. Also, Ruger made a Highway Patrol commemorative in .357. It was a #1 or #3, but is sure to be scarce as hen's teeth.

Darrel
 
I've had an IMI "Timberwolf" .357 for about eight years now. It is slick, reliable, and extremely accurate. The only "tactical" drawback is that the magazine can't be topped-off with the bolt in battery, which is probably why it flopped on the LEA market.

The buttstock is adjustable for drop and angle, to an extent. Once you get it set up to fit you right, you almost don't need the sights out to about 30 yds: just point it like a shotgun and the can dances away!

Don't know about the "kit" outfits, although I may buy one just to have a supply of parts. I haven't needed any yet, but I shoot it enough that something's got to wear out eventually.

When I bought mine, they were going for under half of SRP because dealers couldn't move them. I paid $230 for mine, and the dealer threw in a set of Uncle Mike's QD swivels and a nylon web sling for lagniappe. Wish that I'd had the means ( and the smarts) to buy a couple more.

Other than that, the only .357 repeaters that I know of are levers. FWIW, they are pretty sweet too, IMO. One of the little Rossi/Taurus '92 clones in "Trapper" style (16" bbl) and a Lyman 66A receiver sight makes about the handiest woods walkin' carbine you could ask for.
 
I can't work the lever actions that well, and personally I prefer pump actions anyway.

I just don't understand why not more manufacturers make these things..

The other thing I thought about was to have a Smith do a job converting a Browning BPS 410 to take a 357Mag. I love bottom eject, (left handed!)
 
A man by the name of Tim LeGender was making M-1 conversions in a variety of calibers under the "LeMAG" name. I dunno if he's still doing it, but the conversions turn up now and again. I suppose a search is in order.

I remember seeing a table full of these at a San Jose Gun show a few years back, so I wonder if he was based in the PRK. I dunno, but I think prices were something like half-again the going rate on a carbine, I want to say something like $6-700, but the memory is very vague. I was intrigued by the concept but they were out of my price range.

He also converted M-14's to .338 Mag, I believe.
 
twoblink: I'm a southpaw myself, so I can relate. I think that the manufacturers can't see enough of a volume market for pistol caliber carbines outside of LEAs and the "Cowboy" crowd to make anything but semi-autos and lever actions. If Ruger hadn't had a readily adaptable action design already in production, I don't think that any of the three .44s would've come out. Of course the .44 has more areas where it's a legal deer cartridge than the .357, too so the potential market is larger.

It's tough to design a semi-auto that'll work reliably with a straight-walled, rimmed cartridge. The only examples that come to mind that worked are the Desert Eagles and the Ruger .44 carbines, and they're all gas-operated. Except for Remington and Browning I can't think of anyone who still makes a centerfire pump rifle, and those actions are way too large to be practical for a pistol round. I'm afraid that nobody is going to put the money into R&D for an entirely new manually-operated action unless they can see getting their investment back with interest in pretty short order.

I remember seeing an article on the "LeMag" conversion a number of years ago in one of the magazines. Col Cooper had a pet concept that he called "Thumper" for a 10mm subgun/carbine for LEO's and SF-types. The LeMag in the article was an M1 carbine converted to fire .45 Win. Mag. and said to be a giant step in that direction. I don't recall if any were made or even contemplated for magnum revolver rounds.

Other than the expensive custom route, the Timberwolf is probably your only viable alternative. Even at the ridiculously inflated prices they seem to command anymore, it'd still be the least expensive option, IMHO.
 
I think Browning's BPS has a great platform, or the Ithaca... Both are bottom eject, I've downloaded the original JMB patents for this gun, I have it on my local HD.

I think most people are wrong, because .357Mag is such a common round, people would like to buy a rifle that is fairly cheap and fun to shoot (gallery) and not have to buy yet another round. Also, recoil of a 357Mag out of a rifle is zero, so a great "first timer" gun for a small kid.

Time for me to make a lot of money, and crank out these rifles myself.

Dumb gun makers, :cuss: they never make anything I want...
 
The BPS and Ithaca 37 are indeed fine designs. Their major drawback as a basis for conversion to a magnum revolver round, as I see it, is their size. The design scale was predicated upon the dynamics of the 12 ga. shot cartridge. Thus the whole package is about twice as big as it needs to be. IMO, this would make the resulting conversion something along the lines of my Lee-Enfield .22 LR training rifle: an interesting curiousity, but of little practical value when compared to other designs scaled to the cartridge. Given the choice between lugging a 9 lb, 48 " .22 or a 5 1/2 lb, 37" one that shoots as well or better, which would you buy?

The Timberwolf was basically a revised and much-downscaled Remington 870. Most of the revision not related to the size of the cartidge was to make it suitable to the much-higher operating pressures of the magnum revolver rounds and the resulting changes in stress loads on the mechanism.

The result was a 5 1/2 lb carbine with superb handling characteristics and reasonable power in a very compact package.

There are some areas where the IMI design and marketing folks missed their mark badly, again IMO:

The inclusion of the integral optical sight mount to the receiver. It's hell-for-strong, but it compromises carrying handiness at the natural balance point and looks incongruous. Drilling and tapping the receiver for a conventional base and provision for mounting a receiver sight would've been a better way to go. I don't know many knowledgeable shooters who routinely mount optical sights on what're basically short-range utility or defensive arms.

The action must be open to load cartridges. While not really a factor in a field gun, it's a real handicap for an LEO/defensive carbine role. This one really killed them at a time when many LEAs still used .357 revolvers as a service sidearm. It otherwise would've been an almost ideal patrol carbine option with minimal cross-training issues to deal with.

Cost. Maybe the real biggie here. SRP for the Timberwolf was almost 50% more than competing lever action designs in the same general market segment. Most of the people who comprise that segment, as you pointed out, are looking for a "companion" carbine that uses the same ammunition as their sidearm. I'd bet that the vast majority of those to whom this concept most appeals own just the one centerfire handgun. Let's face it: most of the firearms owners in this country have perhaps a single .22 rifle or handgun, a shotgun, and maybe a centerfire "deer" rifle and/or an "all-purpose" centerfire handgun. They shoot them only occasionally and want the most seemingly cost-effective option available within their budgets.

When the practical factors of accuracy, magazine capacity, dimensional criteria, "handiness", etc. are comparable, action type becomes almost irrelevant to most of them when weighed with perceived-value. "If the Marlin will do the same job for $100 less, why should I spend the extra money just to get a pump?"

While I personally agree with you that there really should be a market out there for a slick, handy, ambidextrous pump-action carbine chambered for magnum revolver cartridges, I'm afraid that we're members of a very small niche in a shrinking global market. The capital investment in design, R&D, CNC tooling and programming, marketing and distribution for commercial production of such a product would be immense.

While I don't have the business savvy or the hard data to calculate how many units at what price it would take to hit the "break-even" point, the lack of interest on the part of those in a position to fill that niche inclines me to think that it wouldn't fly on the mass market level.

On the other hand, if you can come up with a design with the right combination of market appeal and practicality of manufacture to attract enough venture capital for a custom or semi-custom outfit to get involved.....
 
The only caliber that I've seen any ad or magazine copy about in the new "Lightning" repro is the .45 Colt. Other calibers will no doubt follow, if they sell enough of the initial run.

The SASS "gamesman" boys like the .38 Spl, so .357 is a possibility. I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics of that old design, nor have I seen enough technical data on what they may have changed about it to guess as to whether it'd even be feasible for magnum cartridge pressures.

Frankly, I'm curious as to how reliably they can get the extraction to work with that tiny rim on the .45 Colt case. I've known a couple of folks with Rossi '92 clones in that caliber who've had some problems, especially with Pryodex loads. I've read that that was one of the major reasons that Winchester, Marlin, and the others didn't offer their original rifles with that caliber option.

Has anyone seen any SRP numbers for them yet? I'm guessing that they'll be pretty steep compared to the Marlins and Rossis out there.
 
Regarding the .357 Handi-Rifle:

"Around 5-7" from a bench at 100 yds no matter what load I put through it."

PlateShooter; have you tried 200gr bullets, shallow seated in the cases at around 1400fps muzzle velocity?

My wacky handi-rifle wouldn't keep all the bullets inside a 5 FOOT group at 100 yards - with most loads. But it will shoot kinda good with the above load. The cartridge overall length is a full 2", but it seems to demand it. :banghead:
 
I haven't tried anything heavier than 158gr. Are you using lead or jacketed bullets? I did make up a couple rounds with a 180 spitzer soft point bullet made for the 35 Rem, but I haven't shot them yet.
 
Yup - those would be lead bullets. Have been toying with trying some jacketed 200gr bullets.....but I'm secretly afraid that they will work better and make it even more expensive to load that carbine. :D

Think my barrel has a huge freebore. I have never been able to seat any bullet shallow enough to actually contact the rifling. :scrutiny:
 
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