Zundfolge
Member
What NineseveN said +1
Anyone know any felon shooters?
- Thread starter klover
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El Tejon
Member
I know several former felon shooters and I had something to do with the modifier former.
A while ago, I also knew of a federal felon who was not disqualified by the SSA. So, yes, I know of a few shooters who have been convicted of felonies.
A while ago, I also knew of a federal felon who was not disqualified by the SSA. So, yes, I know of a few shooters who have been convicted of felonies.
I'm not sure if he carried it or not. He emptied watever was in the cylinder but his buddy was still crawlig on the ground trying to escape so the perp went into the house, I think he got someone in there to reload, then went out and shot him some more. I sat in on some of the trial, but just don't remember him being charged with firearm possession by a felon.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
M-Rex said:
(A10) Q. How can a person convicted of a felony apply for relief from firearms disabilities? [Back]
A. Under the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), convicted felons and certain other persons are prohibited from possessing firearms. (See 18 U.S.C. section 922(g).) The GCA provides the Secretary of the Treasury with the authority to grant relief from this disability where the Secretary determines that the person is not likely to act in a manner dangerous to the public safety. (See 18 U.S.C. section 925(c).) The Secretary delegated this authority to ATF.
Since October 1992, however, ATF's annual appropriation has continuously prohibited the expending of any funds to investigate or act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities. This restriction is located in Pub. L. No. 107-67, 115 Stat. 514, which contains ATF appropriations for fiscal year 2002. As long as this provision is included in current ATF appropriations, the Bureau cannot act upon applications for relief from Federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals. Consequently, we cannot entertain any individual's request for firearms restoration while this prohibition on the processing of such applications remains in place.
Furthermore, the restriction contained in Pub. L. No. 107-67 does not change the status of prohibited persons. They are still prohibited from possessing, receiving, transporting, or shipping firearms under Federal law.
Lupius- I have never lived in a state where +30 was a felony. That usually requires injury or fleeing from police. What state do you in where speeding can amount to a felony?
Jondar- Criminals who use guns are almost never charged with gun violations. I heard somewhere that only a handful of crooks have been charged under the Brady Law with illegal possession. They pass these laws claiming it's to fight crime but then they don't use them.
Derby FALs- I spoke of a judge clearing the record. The ATF can reinstate gun rights but as you noted they aren't doing it.
Jondar- Criminals who use guns are almost never charged with gun violations. I heard somewhere that only a handful of crooks have been charged under the Brady Law with illegal possession. They pass these laws claiming it's to fight crime but then they don't use them.
Derby FALs- I spoke of a judge clearing the record. The ATF can reinstate gun rights but as you noted they aren't doing it.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
thatguy said:
The feds have also been known to overule the judge.
Molon Labe
Member
I know one guy who is a felon and regular shooter. He's a good man, and I believe he has a right to keep and bear arms, regardless of whether or not he is a "felon."El Tejon said:I know several former felon shooters and I had something to do with the modifier former.
A while ago, I also knew of a federal felon who was not disqualified by the SSA. So, yes, I know of a few shooters who have been convicted of felonies.
When new people come to shoot on our property, I always tell them, "If you're a felon, I don't want to know. Keep it to yourself."
M-Rex
member
Derby FALs said:
Thanks Derby. That is interesting.
M-Rex
member
Molon Labe said:
What did he do time for?
Powderman
Member
klover said:we are going shooting
klover, PM me. BEFORE you go shooting.
Yours,
Powderman
Powderman
Member
Don't do it, friend...
Before you do something that you will regret, think about this:
1. Read RCW 9.41.040. Read it well. You will notice that possession of a firearm by a prohibited person can be punished as either a Class B or Class C Felony.
2. In this State, being arrested as an accessory to a crime will bring a charge one step less than the original offense. (C Felony, Gross Misdemeanor)
I know that the law is NOT fair in this regard. However, are you willing to undergo a life-changing experience simply because of this? Consider: if caught, you will be a felon, your firearms rights will be stripped, you will lose your job because you will be in prison; you will lose your guns; you will possibly lose your home and belongings.
You will never vote again, never be able to touch a firearm or ammunition. No CCW for you, either.
And, is it worth all of this just to give a felon a chance to shoot?
The law isn't perfect, friend. But there are ways to change it. Don't do this--for your sake and your family's sake. The law is there--please don't break it deliberately.
Yours,
E. C. Tovar Jr.
Puyallup Tribal Police
(aka Powderman)
Before you do something that you will regret, think about this:
1. Read RCW 9.41.040. Read it well. You will notice that possession of a firearm by a prohibited person can be punished as either a Class B or Class C Felony.
2. In this State, being arrested as an accessory to a crime will bring a charge one step less than the original offense. (C Felony, Gross Misdemeanor)
I know that the law is NOT fair in this regard. However, are you willing to undergo a life-changing experience simply because of this? Consider: if caught, you will be a felon, your firearms rights will be stripped, you will lose your job because you will be in prison; you will lose your guns; you will possibly lose your home and belongings.
You will never vote again, never be able to touch a firearm or ammunition. No CCW for you, either.
And, is it worth all of this just to give a felon a chance to shoot?
The law isn't perfect, friend. But there are ways to change it. Don't do this--for your sake and your family's sake. The law is there--please don't break it deliberately.
Yours,
E. C. Tovar Jr.
Puyallup Tribal Police
(aka Powderman)
rot13enatre
Member
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A good friend of mine's longtime boyfriend is a felon. Story I got was he had about four pot plants, got busted, and they weighed the plants with alot of the dirt. With the dirt it was over the amount needed for a felony. He was around college age when that happened.
Young and dumb, yes. But is he dangerous? I really doubt it. The guy is a big outdoorsman, and it seems a shame the guy can't hunt with firearms.
The most dangerous thing I've encountered from most of the potheads I've known is getting caught in those stupid conversations, i.e. what a life changing experience it was to follow the band du jour. (Stereotype, yes. But I still shudder from some of those.)
I'm not into the drug scene, not LE, or a lawyer, so I don't know all the ins and outs of drug law. Any insight or correction is welcome.
EDITed to add: But the law's the law. I don't think he shoots, and I certainly wouldn't be around him shooting.
Young and dumb, yes. But is he dangerous? I really doubt it. The guy is a big outdoorsman, and it seems a shame the guy can't hunt with firearms.
The most dangerous thing I've encountered from most of the potheads I've known is getting caught in those stupid conversations, i.e. what a life changing experience it was to follow the band du jour. (Stereotype, yes. But I still shudder from some of those.)
I'm not into the drug scene, not LE, or a lawyer, so I don't know all the ins and outs of drug law. Any insight or correction is welcome.
EDITed to add: But the law's the law. I don't think he shoots, and I certainly wouldn't be around him shooting.
What IS a Felony
Please to read CFR921 Definitions concerning firearms laws:
(20) The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include—
(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or
(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.
What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
If you are convicted of a STATE felony and that conviction is pardoned and or expunged by an officer of the state (Governator), you are no longer a felon when it comes to firearms law and disability. You only have to apply to ATF for permission if you are convicted of a FED felony!! Those are the folks who have no hope.
Please to read CFR921 Definitions concerning firearms laws:
(20) The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include—
(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or
(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.
What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
If you are convicted of a STATE felony and that conviction is pardoned and or expunged by an officer of the state (Governator), you are no longer a felon when it comes to firearms law and disability. You only have to apply to ATF for permission if you are convicted of a FED felony!! Those are the folks who have no hope.
OP
OP
klover
Member
Thanks PowderMan, your reply seems to make sense
and will be heeded. The "we're going shooting" was to get some clarity going.
Think I'll hang with the spritual folks, and let those who've made mistakes find their own "High Road".
Perhaps if you come up this way, we might shoot together someday. PM me if you travel North to shoot.
and will be heeded. The "we're going shooting" was to get some clarity going.
Think I'll hang with the spritual folks, and let those who've made mistakes find their own "High Road".
Perhaps if you come up this way, we might shoot together someday. PM me if you travel North to shoot.
I 'll not mention the state or name , but he is a very good friend of mine. He did 5 yrs. for 2d degree murder. He is very small in stature and was attacked by a very big man. To make a long story short my friend broke a pool cue over the table and stabbed the other guy in the throat.
He was on parole and we went shooting togather. He had a .357 Colt SA, .45 Colt, 30-30 Marlin, etc.
I don't know if he bought it after he got out under the table or owned them before he got into trouble.
I did not and do not care because he is not a threat to society. He has a right to the 2d Amendment just like us.
He was a tunnel rat in Vietnam with the 1st Inf. Div. He earned his rights.
He was on parole and we went shooting togather. He had a .357 Colt SA, .45 Colt, 30-30 Marlin, etc.
I don't know if he bought it after he got out under the table or owned them before he got into trouble.
I did not and do not care because he is not a threat to society. He has a right to the 2d Amendment just like us.
He was a tunnel rat in Vietnam with the 1st Inf. Div. He earned his rights.
M-Rex
member
Joey2 said:
He also murdered someone by stabbing him in the throat with a broken pool cue, and made the choice to give them up.
Carlos
Member
Who attacked whom? M-Rex, you are straight by the book, eh, no moving any way, just blindly follow, no logic, just blind faith. Correct?
Looks like the guy defends himself, does his time, and you're still coming up with gems like, "and made the choice to give them up." Yes, I'm sure that was the first thing on his mind as a gorilla was going after him.
I also really liked the one about all felons should stay in jail. Glad you're not in charge. I sure hope you read some of the other circumstances that can cause one to become a felon.
Keep up the good work.
M-Rex,
He was minding his own business. The guy he killed was banned from the pool hall for picking fights on numerous occsions.
My friend weighed about 130 lbs. and stands maybe 4' 10". He minds his own business and has never started any trouble with anybody.
Married with 2 children and a hard worker. Never been in trouble before.
This guy was going to kill him, he defended himself.
He was minding his own business. The guy he killed was banned from the pool hall for picking fights on numerous occsions.
My friend weighed about 130 lbs. and stands maybe 4' 10". He minds his own business and has never started any trouble with anybody.
Married with 2 children and a hard worker. Never been in trouble before.
This guy was going to kill him, he defended himself.
M-Rex
member
Carlos said:Who attacked whom? M-Rex, you are straight by the book, eh, no moving any way, just blindly follow, no logic, just blind faith. Correct?
Looks like the guy defends himself, does his time, and you're still coming up with gems like, "and made the choice to give them up." Yes, I'm sure that was the first thing on his mind as a gorilla was going after him.
I also really liked the one about all felons should stay in jail. Glad you're not in charge. I sure hope you read some of the other circumstances that can cause one to become a felon.
Keep up the good work.
Not to drift too far off topic, but you are making assumptions based on your already preconceived biases. A jury of his peers found the person in question guilty of 2nd degree murder. By stabbing another person in the throat with a broken pool cue, he demonstrated that he had no problem living with the consequences of his actions. Thus, he decided to abrogate his rights by murdering another person. I don't care if you don't like it.
Stop feeling and start thinking.
M-Rex
member
Joey2 said:
That may be true. However, a jury of his peers decided otherwise based on the evidence presented. Sorry. I'm not buying it.
NineseveN
member
OJ Simpson's peers found him not guilty, what's your point? Juries don't make mistakes? Lawyers don't get beat and innocent people don't suffer for it. You cling to the law when it suits you...tell me again where it says in the USC that a free person can forfeit their inalienable rights permanently...
Thanks.
M-Rex
member
NineseveN said:
No, as a general rule, they don't. Go read the Gun Control Act of '68. You might find an answer there.
Man, you guys are itching to fight tonight.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Carlos and Joey2, if the guy was just defending himself as claimed, then he would not have been convicted of murder. There is something in the act that he peformed that was not within the legal bounds of the law.
Here is a real life example where an initial self defense act was justified, but then degraded into murder because the "good guy" basically executed the downed bad guy.
Man charged in shooting death of naked neighbor http://web.philly.com/content/inquir...26SHOOTING.htm
Tuesday, September 26, 2000 Man charged in shooting death of naked neighbor
Court papers say Paul Bellina fired six times at an already wounded Craig Holtzman as Holtzman walked away from Bellina's Upper Gwynedd house.
Paul Bellina. (AP) By Erin Carroll
INQUIRER SUBURBAN STAFF
Manslaughter charges were filed today against the Upper Gwynedd man who shot his naked next-door neighbor to death when he found the man trying to open the sliding glass door to his basement.
Montgomery Country District Attorney Bruce L. Castor announced the decision to charge Paul Bellina, 52, in the death of Craig Holtzman, 31, at a press conference this morning.
Castor said that while the initial two shots that Bellina fired at Holtzman on Sept. 13 were a legitimate act of self-defense, a series of later shots, including three into Holtzman's head while he was on the ground outside, warranted the charge.
Manslaughter is a first degree felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison.
According to officials, Holtzman was actually walking away from Bellina's townhouse when Bellina unlocked the sliding glass door and told Holtzman to put his hands up. Holtzman did, but then began taking steps toward Bellina, ignoring Bellina's requests to halt, and eventually entering Bellina's house, officials said.
Castor believes that Holtzman may have been very disoriented since toxicology reports show that he had a blood-alcohol level of 0.22 percent at the time of his death.
Bellina then fired two rounds in the basement, according to an affidavit of probable cause. A "critically wounded" Holtzman then walked out of the house and Bellina pursued him firing six shots from at least two different locations, according to the affidavit.
Authorities then say that Bellina fired three shots into Holtzman's head, the last one being a "coup de grace," according to the affidavit.
Bellina was to be arraigned this afternoon in Blue Bell. Castor said bail would be set at $30,000 and that Bellina would need to post 10 percent of that amount and would have to turn over three guns that he now has in his possession.
Bellina surrendered to police at 9 a.m. this morning, Castor said.
Castor had delayed making a decision on the whether or not to charge Bellina for nearly two weeks while he waited for the results of toxicology, forensics, and ballistics tests.
The law regarding use of force to protect oneself in one's home is fairly clear and can largely be summed up by the expression "A man's home is his castle,", Castor has said.
The accepted rule of self-defense is that a person is permitted to use an amount of force necessary to protect against what a person perceives to be an imminent threat of injury or death.
Bellina used a 9mm pistol to shoot Holtzman in the early morning hours of Sept. 13. After an alarm sounded in his house, Bellina found a naked Holtzman attempting to open the sliding glass door to the basement.
Bellina went back upstairs, loaded his gun, and returned to the door.
Castor has said he does not believe Holtzman was attempting to break in to the house, but rather, was disoriented. Holtzman slept in the basement of his parents townhouse next door which has an identical sliding glass door, and often went outside to urinate, according to an affidavit.
Erin Carroll's e-mail address is [email protected]
Here is a real life example where an initial self defense act was justified, but then degraded into murder because the "good guy" basically executed the downed bad guy.
Man charged in shooting death of naked neighbor http://web.philly.com/content/inquir...26SHOOTING.htm
Tuesday, September 26, 2000 Man charged in shooting death of naked neighbor
Court papers say Paul Bellina fired six times at an already wounded Craig Holtzman as Holtzman walked away from Bellina's Upper Gwynedd house.
Paul Bellina. (AP) By Erin Carroll
INQUIRER SUBURBAN STAFF
Manslaughter charges were filed today against the Upper Gwynedd man who shot his naked next-door neighbor to death when he found the man trying to open the sliding glass door to his basement.
Montgomery Country District Attorney Bruce L. Castor announced the decision to charge Paul Bellina, 52, in the death of Craig Holtzman, 31, at a press conference this morning.
Castor said that while the initial two shots that Bellina fired at Holtzman on Sept. 13 were a legitimate act of self-defense, a series of later shots, including three into Holtzman's head while he was on the ground outside, warranted the charge.
Manslaughter is a first degree felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison.
According to officials, Holtzman was actually walking away from Bellina's townhouse when Bellina unlocked the sliding glass door and told Holtzman to put his hands up. Holtzman did, but then began taking steps toward Bellina, ignoring Bellina's requests to halt, and eventually entering Bellina's house, officials said.
Castor believes that Holtzman may have been very disoriented since toxicology reports show that he had a blood-alcohol level of 0.22 percent at the time of his death.
Bellina then fired two rounds in the basement, according to an affidavit of probable cause. A "critically wounded" Holtzman then walked out of the house and Bellina pursued him firing six shots from at least two different locations, according to the affidavit.
Authorities then say that Bellina fired three shots into Holtzman's head, the last one being a "coup de grace," according to the affidavit.
Bellina was to be arraigned this afternoon in Blue Bell. Castor said bail would be set at $30,000 and that Bellina would need to post 10 percent of that amount and would have to turn over three guns that he now has in his possession.
Bellina surrendered to police at 9 a.m. this morning, Castor said.
Castor had delayed making a decision on the whether or not to charge Bellina for nearly two weeks while he waited for the results of toxicology, forensics, and ballistics tests.
The law regarding use of force to protect oneself in one's home is fairly clear and can largely be summed up by the expression "A man's home is his castle,", Castor has said.
The accepted rule of self-defense is that a person is permitted to use an amount of force necessary to protect against what a person perceives to be an imminent threat of injury or death.
Bellina used a 9mm pistol to shoot Holtzman in the early morning hours of Sept. 13. After an alarm sounded in his house, Bellina found a naked Holtzman attempting to open the sliding glass door to the basement.
Bellina went back upstairs, loaded his gun, and returned to the door.
Castor has said he does not believe Holtzman was attempting to break in to the house, but rather, was disoriented. Holtzman slept in the basement of his parents townhouse next door which has an identical sliding glass door, and often went outside to urinate, according to an affidavit.
Erin Carroll's e-mail address is [email protected]
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