AR15 Back up iron sights - anyone try this?

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oldguy870

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My title should have read ... OFFSET back up iron sights ...

I have several rifles with TA11J-G ACOGs. This is a great scope EXCEPT for one thing. It is less than optimal for dynamic targets up close (0-15 yards). I find myself point shooting. I am told that is what most soldiers do in Afghanistan when they clear rooms with ACOG mounted rifles.

I considered an offset T1 or an RMR mounted to the ACOG. But, it is a big investment since I have multiple guns.

The next thought was offset backup iron sights. I don't like them for several reasons:

1. Snag hazard and ugly as heck.
2. Most look over engineered for my purposes as a extreme short range sight.
3. Speed. Short range engagement tends to demand fast shooting. Aligning front posts and rear apertures is about the slowest way to engage a target.

Has anyone tried just mounting the offset front post from an offset backup sight set to their receiver?

1. It would be fast. Nothing to align.
2. It wouldn't be accurate. But, how accurate do you need to be at 15 yards?
3. It would be probably be more accurate than point shooting at extreme close distance.

Anyone ever try this?
 
Without a rear sight to use as a reference point you would likely miss center of mass at that range. You need something to reference the front sight off of to be useful.
 
I shoot offset iron sights in competition (3 gun) where speed at close range is the name of the game. I use a front offset and a rear, and they don't snag (even when dumping my rifle in a barrel). They are quick to line up, and transitioning to them from my 1-4x optic is quick and easy.

Just using a front post is not a good idea. Just get a full set (front and rear) and learn to use them. You won't lose any speed and you will be more accurate (I would actually expect point shooting to be more accurate). If you don't care too much about accuracy at 15 yards then don't get an offset sight (or sight set) at all; just point shoot because it will be faster. If you do care about a reasonable level of accuracy then do it right with a front and rear sight.

And iron sights are not really that slow, they are certainly faster than trying to acquire a target at close range with a magnified optic. Even at longer distances they are fast. When shooting limited irons in 3 gun I have been faster than many people shooting Tac optics.
 
Thanks malakili for the link.

allaroundhunter, I think that you are probably right about accuracy and speed issues.

I have a Stag Arms 3H Gas block gun with standard plastic handguards. It has just enough space on the upper receiver rail for a rear sight. Unfortunately, there is no where to put the front sight. My understanding is that most of the offset back up iron front sights are designed for guns with full rail systems, not gas blocks.

I was hoping for some sort of system that could be completely mounted on the upper receiver that wasn't a $700 Aimpoint T1.

I'll bet there is a HUGE market for a basic, compact, inexpensive offset sight system designed for 0-25 yard shooting. It wouldn't have to be sub minute of angle / clover leaf type accuracy. It would just need to cover the gap that a magnified scope doesn't do well - quick hits on dynamic, close up targets.
 
I'm almost certain someone makes a low profile, offset red dot that's supposed to serve the exact purpose you're describing - Faster target acquisition for close range alternative when a rifle has a large scope mounted. I could have sworn I've seen pictures of it here on THR. I'll try to find something on it.

Edit:

Quick google brought up a product by Daniel Defense. An offset picatinny rail that you can attach a red dot to.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/62...ffset-picatinny-accessory-rail-aluminum-black

I know this isn't exactly what you were inquiring about. Just wanted to bring this option to your attention in case you weren't aware of it.
 
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On one of my 10/22 hunting rigs, I run an 8-25x Mueller scope...that's great when dialed in at 25x and picking off groundhogs at 200, but more than once i pulled my eye back from the scope to have a rabbit sitting 15ft behind me... after a few misses point shooting, i got one of these
http://www.opticsplanet.com/weaver-offset-rail-adapter.html
and one of these
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-Micro-Dot-With-Fixed-Base-p/md-07.htm

With this setup you just rotate the gun 30 degrees, and you're looking through the reddot; same height as the scope. However, for HD, i'd want to get a reflex sight that doesn't need to be turned on...or (for substantial savings) just get a box of batteries, leave it on, and remember to change the battery every 3-6 months. For indoor use a lower setting like 2 or 3 would be fine, and not burn as much battery as leaving it on 11.
 
Thanks for the replies. Just to summarize.

1. I wanted to avoid a red dot. The quality ones are big $$$.
2. My rifle has no where to mount an offset iron front sight.
3. The current offering of offset iron sights are crazy expensive and complex for the intended purpose (0-15 yards).

This seems like it would be a common problem.
 
Old guy, just buy two 45 degree offset mounts and then a pair of BUIS that you like. Or you can buy the $45 set of GG&G offset irons for cheaper.

I have been using $250 Dueck Defense offset iron sights for the same purpose that you are looking at. Actually, I don't know if I've shot a target further than 10 yards away with them. As with most things shooting related, you get what you pay for.
 
oldguy870 said:
Thanks for the replies. Just to summarize.

1. I wanted to avoid a red dot. The quality ones are big $$$.
2. My rifle has no where to mount an offset iron front sight.
Click to expand...
If you don't want a red dot, you'll need irons. Like rc said, you need a front and rear, regardless of the distance between the two. If you don't have a place to mount an offset front sight up front, this means that you may very well have a front and rear sight that are as close together as on many handguns; however, the bottom line remains that you need both.

oldguy870 said:
3. The current offering of offset iron sights are crazy expensive and complex for the intended purpose (0-15 yards).

This seems like it would be a common problem.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you're saying, "here's my problem, which many others must have. None of the options available to fix this problem are appealing."

If that's the case, you have the first step to building a successful product. Now you just need an idea. Not sure what else to say about it.
 
Thanks. I am afraid you guys are right. It looks like I need to reconsider a red dot or add rails to my guns.
 
Or practice point shooting at 5-15 yds and figure where your rounds hit?
 
Google or whatever search the terms "Quick Skill" or "Quick Kill" the first was a program sold by daisy the airgun folks and the last was the same program as used by the US Army.

Works well. Nothing to mount on the rifle, snag or break. Late 1960's early 1970's was actually part of basic rifle qualification course in the US army for targets at 25 meters or less.

-kBob
 
kBob, quick kill is a device made by Raytheon that is used to knock incoming RPGs and rockets out of the air. If you google it then that is exactly what you will find.

If you want to find 'quick kill instinct shooting' then that is exactly what you will have to type.
 
I read that was for the front sight, eg FSB or gas block; this could be mounted off one 45 off the reciever, or on one of those scope rings with the side- and top rails, like the burris PEPR...of course, it would help if the OP told us the rifle type...like does it have a weaver or 1913 rail at all..

Of course, a flashlight/laser combo is where i'd go first, before secondary sights.
 
He can't mount it on the receiver because then he could not mount his ACOG. I don't think he has a top rail in the handguard, or this wouldn't be a problem.

It is too large to mount on the rails on scope rings, and that would also defeat the purpose of them because then he would have to lift his head off of the stock to use them.
 
Allaroundhunter nailed it about no where to mount the front sight.

I went yesterday and practiced point shooting again. I was very surprised at how many hits I was getting on paper plate targets from 0-15 yards. Kind of remarkable actually. The speed was remarkable too. 0-5 yards was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Know I know why the troops point shoot in Afghanistan up close with ACOG equiped rifles. It seems to work and it seems faster than any type of sighted shooting.
 
If you have a top rail, I am very fond of the XS offset sights, and my ACOG (TA31) is one of the few that they work with with complete clearance.

They are low, not easy to snag, fast, and even work in the dark. They are basically pistol sights, but that makes them perfect for me for 0-25. Unfortunately, they do not clear EOTechs or large US Optics objectives and windage knobs.
 
Some people like the XS sights. I personally will never use them again. All they are are big dot sights for your AR which itself isn't a bad thing. What is bad about them is how low they are. It is near impossible to keep the same cheek weld that you normally use and then rock the gun over and have a correct sight picture. They are far too low for my tastes, and each of my teammates who have tried them feel the same way.
 
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