His occupation is irrelevant.
Doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter.
Baldwin to be charged with manslaughter
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Ironicaintit
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At best, IMO, he grew criminally complacent. Maybe I just can't relate to that, since I check everything.
I often work with high voltage. Before I lay my hands on sensitive parts, i still put a meter on it, even if the professional I'm working with said it was disconnected. Like firearms, electricity will kill ya dead in an instant. There's simply no room for complacency and/or negligence.
I had not read that Baldwin was aware there was live ammo on the set. That would definitely change my opinion. In the interviews he has given that is never mentioned by him. Of course he still claims he never pulled the trigger.
Even if he wasn't one of the people shooting cans between takes (or whatever they were doing), it's almost impossible for him not to know. Shooting guns isn't exactly a quiet endeavor.
Edit: To be fair, no news reports says WHERE they went plinking. I assumed it was nearby, but it could have been much farther away.
https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/
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Mizar
Member
"Real" guns are used more than 90% of the time when blank firing, or a close shot is needed. "Fake guns", or props guns are usually rubber molds and are used when one can damage the real one - stunts, throwing of the gun and etc. In his case, a close shot to the camera was needed, so they used the "real deal" loaded with (presumably) dummy rounds.
I don't know the full details of how this is supposed to work versus how it worked in this case. But it does seem like somewhere along the line the system failed to prevent live rounds from being loaded into the gun.
I don't understand why there were live rounds there at all. I could understand having fake live rounds if it was part of the movie scene, but real live rounds just seems like a terrible idea.
Whoever is responsible for that happening ought to be held accountable.
I don't understand why there were live rounds there at all. I could understand having fake live rounds if it was part of the movie scene, but real live rounds just seems like a terrible idea.
Whoever is responsible for that happening ought to be held accountable.
lysanderxiii
Member
I blame the PRODUCER of the movie for allowing that sort of general negligence in the handling of firearms on the set, lax enforcement of "no live ammunition" and other gross missteps that lead to this tragedy. As such, the producer is responsible for establishing a safe work environment, and the producer is ultimately responsible for the death.
Any guesses who the producer is?
silicosys4
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In the aftermath of the shooting, the authorities found five additional live rounds on the set, including on top of the cart where props were kept and in a belt that Mr. Baldwin was wearing as a costume piece.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/arts/rust-shooting-charges-alec-baldwin.html
Jdague12
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As the person pulling the trigger, it is ultimately YOUR responsibility to be 100% sure of what you’re shooting, especially when that firearm is supposed to be pointed at another person. That firearm should have been loaded by at least 2 people, including the shooter. I don’t know how ANY so-called expert would not notice the difference between a blank round and a live round as they’re loading a firearm. Huge noticeable difference in weight and feel. There was a lot of negligence to go around and someone lost their life because of it.
I believe he was also a producer and a lot of people had raised safety concerns about cutting corners, that were not addressed. So, if it is ultimatelly your repsonsibility to ensure everyone's safety involved, it would not even matter if he ended up being the one holding the firearm, he and any other producer should be scrutinized if not charged IMHO. A lot of people should be charged, and they should be able to figure out exactly where each live round came from, who made it, and follow a chain of custody of the rounds from manufacture to set to firearm.
The only guarantee is that no one here has all the facts. All we have are opinions based upon sketchy accounts and wild speculation.
I hope there is a trial and maybe we can find out what actually happened. Case still has to go to the grand jury first. I am a bit vague on just what is a "dummy" round and how to tell them from real loads. I am guessing all the loads in the gun were real that morning? The armorer has learned a lesson about signing up in name only and then not being able to actually do the job. Sorta a scapegoat from the start and apparently not a very smart scape goat. She should quit have long before this happened if she had any ability at all. I think it said the one guy has agreed to plead guilty already?
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I have the feeling there is more to this.
It just seems like as long as it’s been, and it involving a famous actor if it was anything other than a clear cut case he never would have been charged. If they could give him the benefit of doubt, they would. The armor was screwed from the beginnings, rightly so.
I bet they’ve got him dead to rights and when all the facts come out few, if any, will disagree.
It just seems like as long as it’s been, and it involving a famous actor if it was anything other than a clear cut case he never would have been charged. If they could give him the benefit of doubt, they would. The armor was screwed from the beginnings, rightly so.
I bet they’ve got him dead to rights and when all the facts come out few, if any, will disagree.
bdickens
Member
Are you serious? Are you trying to make us believe that Hollywood Actor is the only profession in the world where workers are not only not required to, but actively discouraged from knowing how to operate the equipment they use in the course of their duties and how to do so safely?
Doesn't matter. Ever heard the phrase "Knew or should have known?" As in Baldwin knew or should have known that guns are dangerous and that Baldwin knew or should have known that every safety protocol in the world (Yes, even in Hollywood) forbids pointing even unloaded guns directly at people.
Not to mention that, as the producer (you know, the person in charge of the whole endeavor)
Baldwin knew or should have known what the hell was going on.
The prosecutor will probably be using that one a lot. Comes up often when discussing negligence and liability.
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JeffG
Member
In my mind, it belongs in the courts. Letting the decision with one person, (DA) appears to be too arbitrary .
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Old Dog
Member
Aside from the armorer's and production team's obvious incompetence, the one thing that will absolutely convict Baldwin is if the prosecution is able to make the judge (hearing) and then jury (trial) understand that in the firearms world, Rule 1 always applies.
Just where do you think it will be decided?
I think the armorer is far more responsible than the actor. The armorer's specific job is to be responsible for the firearm and make sure no live ammunition is brought on set. I don't hold the actor responsible at all for picking up a firearm that a paid expert told him was safe.
Imagine a firearm training event in which Simmunitions are being used. The safety officer hands a SIM gun (capable of firing live rounds) to the trainee who isn't allowed to check the gun first because of the drill being performed. Imagine someone loaded it with a live round and the safety officer didn't prevent it. Who is responsible? The trainee who pulls the trigger or the safety officer? Unless the trainee loaded it with a live round themselves the safety officer is responsible.
Perhaps Alec was bringing live ammo on set himself.
Imagine a firearm training event in which Simmunitions are being used. The safety officer hands a SIM gun (capable of firing live rounds) to the trainee who isn't allowed to check the gun first because of the drill being performed. Imagine someone loaded it with a live round and the safety officer didn't prevent it. Who is responsible? The trainee who pulls the trigger or the safety officer? Unless the trainee loaded it with a live round themselves the safety officer is responsible.
Perhaps Alec was bringing live ammo on set himself.
Elkins45
Member
And conversely, Baldwin’s defense will be that they weren’t in the firearms world, but were in the movie world instead. And in movie world, there is no Rule 1 because there aren’t supposed to be any real bullets.
Old Dog
Member
That defense cannot work as real firearms were involved, capable of firing live ammunition. And yes, there absolutely is a Rule 1 in the motion picture and television industry.
I do believe we have a couple forum members (don't know if they're still active) who've been involved in the business; hopefully they can chime in. I know on a couple other forums, there are a few members with association to both the motion picture and television industries.
As a human, the guy makes my skin crawl.
But in movies, actors are provided guns and get this- often point at people and pull triggers, because that's what script says. Its a make believe story and there are blanks, etc.
A prop gun shouldn't be loaded, duh right? So who did that, and why?
I remember a gun related death on The Crow movie as well, though not the details. I think an actor shot the lead actor in a gun play scene. I'm sure the guy felt terrible, but how is that at all the actors fault? Script says aim this movie gun here, say line, repeat etc.
Gun play and props are choreographed. The weapon wrangler would have to have dropped the ball.
But in movies, actors are provided guns and get this- often point at people and pull triggers, because that's what script says. Its a make believe story and there are blanks, etc.
A prop gun shouldn't be loaded, duh right? So who did that, and why?
I remember a gun related death on The Crow movie as well, though not the details. I think an actor shot the lead actor in a gun play scene. I'm sure the guy felt terrible, but how is that at all the actors fault? Script says aim this movie gun here, say line, repeat etc.
Gun play and props are choreographed. The weapon wrangler would have to have dropped the ball.
doubleh
Member
When someone hands you a firearm do you check it or just "assume".? He pointed the gun at her, cocked it, and pulled the trigger. The blame rests on him for his actions.
Elkins45
Member
We shall see. Money + fame + good lawyers have a way of making justice take a back seat.
Agreed. Baldwin was also the producer of the movie, so if shortcuts were taken with safety due to costs he could also be responsible for civil cases.
danmc
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Last year I recall a posting on one of the threads here that contained a link to our motion picture industry’s safety standards regarding firearms- it appears Alec Baldwin was in violation of those standards- his interview on television even confirms that he was. I understand that the assistant director has already made a plea deal- expect similar from Baldwin and the armorer.
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