Bear Rifle Question

[TheVeteran]

So I've never gone bear hunting before and it's coming to be a unique and fun adventure in the up and coming season. I have a good friend who is mentoring me in this area, but he's no gunsmith. We were discussing rounds and adequate rifles for this game and he swears I should only go for Pennsylvania black bear if I'm using a 30-06. I currently sport a decent bolt action 7.62X54 (.308) of unknown origins (seems to be a modified Mosin Nagant), and I feel pretty confident in my ability to use it.

However, I've never gotten a bear before and am uneducated in the subject. Is my idea of using the .308 totally crazy or do you figure I should go with the 30-06?

 

[chevyforlife21]

always use a .22 for bear................... jk yea your mosin will work good

 

[TheVeteran]

Hahaha, ok thanks. I could get away with a shotgun too, couldn't I? Although our state doesn't allow buckshot for bear season I suppose I could use a slug.

 

[TehK1w1]

The 7.62x54r is very similar to the 30-06 in ballistics and performance. IIRC it's used pretty commonly for brown bear hunting in some parts.

 

[saturno_v]

7,62x54R more than adequate with the proper loads and bullets.

 

[qajaq59]

and I feel pretty confident in my ability to use it.

You can see where to put the shot. And it seems like you trust the rifle and your ability to use it, so either will do. Where you put the shot is more important then the caliber, within reason of course.

 

[schlockinz]

Use the .308, its more than enough and not mucho overkill

 

[kanook]

I currently sport a decent bolt action 7.62X54 (.308)

7.62x51 is a .308

 

[TheVeteran]

You know Kanook, I was just reading that earlier today before I checked my post.

So if a 7.62X51 is actually a 308, what is a 7.62X54 equivalent to?

And what's this talk I'm hearing about 7X62X54R? The "R" stands for rimmed? What does rimmed mean? Google doesn't seem to have an answer.

Thank you for all the replies.

 

[bpl]

I believe what you have is a 7.62x54R. This cartridge is (I believe) roughly in between the .308 and 30-06 in power.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

bbl is correct. The 7.62x54 is between a .308 and a .30-06, and is plenty for black bear.

 

[MCgunner]

So if a 7.62X51 is actually a 308, what is a 7.62X54 equivalent to?

In power, 8x57 is probably closest. .30-06 or .308 is close. .308 can do anything the .30-06 can do now that we have controlled expansion bullets and it don't need to push 180 plus grain stuff.

It is a RIMMED cartridge and is known as the 7.62x54R not for "Russian", but for "rimmed". I never quite figured out why they put a rim on it, but they did. I've never owned one, don't care to, but it's overkill for black bear. The .30-30 Winchester has no doubt killed more bear by a LONG shot than any other caliber, perhaps more than any other 5 calibers combined. LOL Nothing to back that one up, that's why I said "perhaps", but the .30-30 is deadly on bear. It don't take that much gun to kill a bear, don't figure they're any tougher than hogs, but I'd use a tougher bullet than I'd use on a whitetail for penetration of more bone and muscle..

 

[Arkel23]

I'm not a bear hunter, but I would say a slug out of a 12 gauge would be fine.

 

[rcmodel]

What does rimmed mean?

It means exactely what it sounds like it means.

The case has a rim protruding past the case body like a revolver cartridge, shotgun shell, .22 rim-fire, or 30-30 Winchester.

A rimless round like a 30-06 or .308 also has a rim, but it is body diameter and does not stick out past the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_(firearms)

rc

 

[Cosmoline]

7.62X54 (.308)

Wait--those are not the same cartridge! Not even a little tiny bit the same. The 7.62x54R is not a .308. It's not even a .308". Your Mosin-Nagant will be 7.62x54R unless someone tried to rechamber it. The 7.62x54R is on par with the 8x57JS as others have noted, and on par with the standard .30'06.

Assuming we are talking about the 54R, it will drop a bear no problem. I'd suggest getting Winchester or S&B 180 grain softpoints for black bear. Norma also sells excellent hunting ammo for this cartridge but it's very $$. Post some more info on your rifle if possible. Who made it? What's the year?

 

[TheVeteran]

I already understand they aren't the same cartridge. It's a mistake I've been making which has thankfully been pointed out.

 

[paintballdude902]

12ga slug will be fine and so will the mosin

 

[Cosmoline]

What kind of Mosin is it? That makes some difference in the best choice of ammo.

 

[TheVeteran]

That's the thing, I'll take photos of it maybe when I arrive home but it's been worked on. From my knowledge and experience (which, granted, has obviously been exposed by this thread isn't exactly perfect) it appears to be a Mosin Nagant. It takes the same round, has the has almost the same appearance. It also has the same internal magazine that the other rifle would.

Again, when I get home. And thank you for all the awesome information.

 

[TheVeteran]

That's the thing, I'll take photos of it maybe when I arrive home but it's been worked on. From my knowledge and experience (which, granted, has obviously been exposed by this thread isn't exactly perfect) it appears to be a Mosin Nagant. It takes the same round, has the has almost the same appearance. It also has the same internal magazine that the other rifle would.

Again, when I get home. And thank you for all the awesome information.

 

[MCgunner]

There are variations of the Mosin Nagant. What Cos wants to know is what model is it? I reckon rifling or something might be variable between different models meaning different models will shoot better with different bullet weights. I don't know a lot about the subject as I've just not been very interested in Mosins.

 

[joustin]

7,62x54R is .308 the diameter is the same but a .308 Winchester isn't anywhere near the Russian round. The MN is a very old design, I am not sure if a rimless cartridge was common in the late 1890's

 

[MCgunner]

I am not sure if a rimless cartridge was common in the late 1890's

Well, it was predated by the 1888 8x57J, a rimless round. I think the Label, 1886 French round, is rimmed, though. You're right, most rounds up to then were rimmed. Rimless rounds were the exception at the time. Good point.

 

[7mmstalker]

+1 . . . . Use a bullet/load designed for heavy-boned critters and controlled expansion.
Shot a 6ft. Blackie on the Kenai Peninsula using factory 7mm Rem. 175g. core-lockt ammo. First shot was not well placed, hit high and rear on the spine-midway between hip and ribcage.
Amazingly, the bullet went into the spine but not out the off side (estimated range 150~175yds.) He did lose the use of back legs, thankfully, and I followed with a good second round "in the boiler room". Broke the near side foreleg, went through the heart, heavily damaged the off side shoulderblade and stopped under the hide!
All is well that ends well. - You do NOT want to track down a wounded bear-brown or black- in the woods! We had a 12ga. slug gun, and would've had to do that if the second shot hadn't put him down.
Just a few of the lessons that come to mind from that scenario:
Shot placement is very important for a safe, ethical, kill.
Use enough gun for the job, expected range, size of animal, etc.
Practice shooting offhand, standing on uneven ground, sitting, in other words, real-world field positions.
Regularly practice quick, but accurate, follow-up shots. (You might be surprised how challenging that can be.)

Wish I was in your shoes, what part of AK are you going to hunt?

 

[TheVeteran]

Who said anything about AK? I'm in Pennsylvania. My buddy has tons of private property out there we like to hunt.

And yes, that's very good advice. Although I've been having trouble lately finding rounds I can actually hunt with. Where are the 7.62x54R rounds that aren't FMJ? I was told you can't hunt with them in PA, while I searched the hunters digest and couldn't find any mention of the subject.