Zak Smith
Member
I shot a 4-inch 5-shot group at 940 yards with a .338 Lapua today. I probably could have done the same with my .260REM, or maybe even my 308. It all depends on the conditions.
Best Caliber for 500+ yards?
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redneck2
Member
It's kind of amazing that so many posters would still give caliber recommendations even though you said you're going to use your 7mm mag. A 7mm mag really doesn't kick that much, at least not in my rifle. When you're shooting a lot, weight is your friend. If your rifle is a sporter weight, I'd add some lead.
Anyway.....you never really got an adequate answer to your question IMO. Now, your original post said 500-800. 500 is a whole lot different than even 800, and a world away from 1,000 if you're interested in that.
To answer the question about glass......I have a friend that I hunt with that took a prarie dog at 1,018 yards with a .308. He used a 15x scope. At that range, the crosshairs totally covered the dog. He had to try to center the dog behind the crosshhairs and touch off. Stuff gets real small when the distance gets over 1/2 mile.
My 1,000 yard rig is a 700 Sendero 7mm Mag with a Burris 8x32 scope on .020 offset mounts. I can see song birds on the fence across our lake, which is about 550-600 yards across.
At 1,000, you most likely won't get enough adjustment on your scope to account for bullet drop unless you have offset mounts. IIRC, even with the high B.C. bullets in the 7 mag, you still have to be something like 22" high at 100 yards.
My load is WW cases, Fed Mag Match Primers, Hornady 162 grain A-Max, RL-22. Very high B.C. I did a LOT of looking and asking before I started on my project. The 7 gave the best combination of performance vs cost in a factory round IMO. The .308 will work, but the 7 mm works better once things go past maybe 800-900 and targets get small. Go to one of the sites that has a ballistics calculator, plug in the numbers, and you'll see what I mean.
If you want real answers from real shooters, try Benchrest Central 1,000 yard and Factory Rifle forums. There are a lot of calibers that will work to 500. Starts thinning the further you stretch. At 1,000 it gets real thin.
HTH
Anyway.....you never really got an adequate answer to your question IMO. Now, your original post said 500-800. 500 is a whole lot different than even 800, and a world away from 1,000 if you're interested in that.
To answer the question about glass......I have a friend that I hunt with that took a prarie dog at 1,018 yards with a .308. He used a 15x scope. At that range, the crosshairs totally covered the dog. He had to try to center the dog behind the crosshhairs and touch off. Stuff gets real small when the distance gets over 1/2 mile.
My 1,000 yard rig is a 700 Sendero 7mm Mag with a Burris 8x32 scope on .020 offset mounts. I can see song birds on the fence across our lake, which is about 550-600 yards across.
At 1,000, you most likely won't get enough adjustment on your scope to account for bullet drop unless you have offset mounts. IIRC, even with the high B.C. bullets in the 7 mag, you still have to be something like 22" high at 100 yards.
My load is WW cases, Fed Mag Match Primers, Hornady 162 grain A-Max, RL-22. Very high B.C. I did a LOT of looking and asking before I started on my project. The 7 gave the best combination of performance vs cost in a factory round IMO. The .308 will work, but the 7 mm works better once things go past maybe 800-900 and targets get small. Go to one of the sites that has a ballistics calculator, plug in the numbers, and you'll see what I mean.
If you want real answers from real shooters, try Benchrest Central 1,000 yard and Factory Rifle forums. There are a lot of calibers that will work to 500. Starts thinning the further you stretch. At 1,000 it gets real thin.
HTH
X-Rap
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Thanks for the responce on group size. I get the moa what I am qurious about is how many shooters really are hitting moa or less when they are recomending rounds that would seem to fall a little short for 1000 m the 308 &30-06 being two. I know they have a long history at camp perry and all but do the M1As, 03s and garands really shot 10" groups at 1000m or yds with consistancy.
Zak Smith
Member
Both of those cartridges can shoot better than MOA at 1000 yards-- the trick is the shooter has to judge wind fractionally better than some of the magnums.
Do not confuse the capabilities of the cartridge with the accuracy and appropriateness of any or every rifle in that caliber.
Do not confuse the capabilities of the cartridge with the accuracy and appropriateness of any or every rifle in that caliber.
AStone
Member
Now that's not playing very nice ! I think a lot of folks still want to express their opinion - that's not a lot different than stretching the 500 to 800 yd question into a 1000 yd answer . You make a good point with optics in that they need to be well thought out on firearms that one wants to shoot at the longer ranges. The two long range rifles I have had in the past were a custom heavy barrel in 30-06 with a fixed 12 X Davis Target scope with external adj. The other a 300 Win Mag with a 12X - 24X mil dot system. I am not a competor, but had done a good deal of long range shooting at praire dogs with that 30-06. It shot slightly under 1/2 moa groups.
A rifle that could come anywhere near shooting praire dogs with any consistancy at 1,000 yds would have to shoot 1/4 moa groups or less and even then hits at that range seems to me would be more luck than anything on a praire dog.
redneck2
Member
Kind of a combination of luck and skill, mixed in with multiple tries. It's not a "one shot, one kill" proposition.
I was just trying to point out that 500 yards is a different program from 800 and up. Marines qualify with iron sighted M-16's at 500 meters IIRC
I saw a write up in a gun rag a few ago about the first heavy high B.C. bullets for .223's. The guy was putting 3 shots into about 6" at 600 yards.
JeepDriver
Member
Start off with a .308
There are plenty of factory loads (federal/black hills) out there that will handle 500 yards w/o a ploblem.
Once to step out to 1000 yards I'd give the .338 Lapua magnum a serious look. Only if that's going to be a regular distianceto shoot at though.
With the 338 you're going to have to either pay serious coin for facoty loads from Black Hills. Or start doing serious work at the loading bench and range to find the load that works for your rifle, which you're either going to have custom built or pay big money for from only a couple manufacturers.
There are plenty of factory loads (federal/black hills) out there that will handle 500 yards w/o a ploblem.
Once to step out to 1000 yards I'd give the .338 Lapua magnum a serious look. Only if that's going to be a regular distianceto shoot at though.
With the 338 you're going to have to either pay serious coin for facoty loads from Black Hills. Or start doing serious work at the loading bench and range to find the load that works for your rifle, which you're either going to have custom built or pay big money for from only a couple manufacturers.
MCgunner
Member
hmm, I guess the 7mm STW is out of favor now days? It use to be THE hot caliber for long range shooting. My, how fickle rifle nuts are, eh?
BTW, weight has nothing to do with the 50 bmg's exterior ballistics performance. The incredible ballistic coefficients do, however, and the weight/momentum and energy of that bullet is devastating in terminal ballistics/penetration of hard targets.
BTW, weight has nothing to do with the 50 bmg's exterior ballistics performance. The incredible ballistic coefficients do, however, and the weight/momentum and energy of that bullet is devastating in terminal ballistics/penetration of hard targets.
USSR
Member
+1. I shot my .30-06 Tactical Rifle all this year in 1,000 yard F Class matches, and did not feel handicapped in the slightest. When I didn't do well, it was the result of my not reading the wind correctly. IMHO, all you really need cartridge-wise for LR shooting is a cartridge for which: quality high BC bullets are available, quality brass (Lapua, Norma, etc.) is available, and the cartridge selected must have enough case capacity to drive your bullets at 2900+fps.
Don
adobewalls
Member
Just some thoughts from a recreational shooter with both the 7mmRM and .308. Real shooting starts at 300 and just gets more fun the longer you go. Other posters are correct when recommending the .308 as a starter as it is mild in recoil and you can find commercially loaded match grade ammunition.
However, you are starting with the 7mmRM, which I can find no fault with as thats the first rifle I shot over 250 yards. I didn't catch what type or length of barrel you are shooting, but it/you should be able to shoot right at about an 1" to 1-1/2" at 100 yards to start with. I recommend looking for a premuim hunting bullet based off the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Combined Technology Ballistic Tip, Hornaday A-max or Sierra Game King in starting no less than 150 grns and up. Find the brand your rifle likes best at a 100 yds. The 7mmRM is hot enough that if you are shooting a boat-tail bullet of 150 grns. or better it will do just fine at 500.
Second, if you are not buying a rifle, put money into a good scope, rings and mounts. Buy the heavy duty grade as you want a very solid mount for the scope. Now the type and power of scope, and whether its adjustable or not are all personal preferences - my only rule on this is, "You can't hit it, if you can't see it". If you are just starting out, most people recommend a scope of capable of at least 10x and no more than 20x. A good scope will probably cost as much as a new rifle, especially when adding the heavy duty mounts and rings.
Next start reading books and visiting web sites for long range hunting and tactical shooting. This will help you understand the cheap tricks you can do without spending big money on gunsmithing to cut your 100 yard group sizes in half. If you have a sporter wieght barrel, you may have to be patient and restrict yourself to slow fire, but a sporter can be as accurate as varmint/heavy profile barrel if you take your time.
Again, other posters have given good advice, after about a year of shooting, you should have shot the barrel out of that 7mmRM. That means you have a great excuse to now send it off to a reputable gunsmith and get it really tricked out for the long range game. Also in that year, you will begin to understand that the real challenge of the long range game is not so much the equipment as it is developing your ability to read the environmental conditions, develop good form and establish your own mental disciplione and control necessary to consistently hit at the longer ranges. After a year, it will also be about time to start getting into reloading, as that is what will push your "new" custom rifle to its full potential.
However, you are starting with the 7mmRM, which I can find no fault with as thats the first rifle I shot over 250 yards. I didn't catch what type or length of barrel you are shooting, but it/you should be able to shoot right at about an 1" to 1-1/2" at 100 yards to start with. I recommend looking for a premuim hunting bullet based off the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Combined Technology Ballistic Tip, Hornaday A-max or Sierra Game King in starting no less than 150 grns and up. Find the brand your rifle likes best at a 100 yds. The 7mmRM is hot enough that if you are shooting a boat-tail bullet of 150 grns. or better it will do just fine at 500.
Second, if you are not buying a rifle, put money into a good scope, rings and mounts. Buy the heavy duty grade as you want a very solid mount for the scope. Now the type and power of scope, and whether its adjustable or not are all personal preferences - my only rule on this is, "You can't hit it, if you can't see it". If you are just starting out, most people recommend a scope of capable of at least 10x and no more than 20x. A good scope will probably cost as much as a new rifle, especially when adding the heavy duty mounts and rings.
Next start reading books and visiting web sites for long range hunting and tactical shooting. This will help you understand the cheap tricks you can do without spending big money on gunsmithing to cut your 100 yard group sizes in half. If you have a sporter wieght barrel, you may have to be patient and restrict yourself to slow fire, but a sporter can be as accurate as varmint/heavy profile barrel if you take your time.
Again, other posters have given good advice, after about a year of shooting, you should have shot the barrel out of that 7mmRM. That means you have a great excuse to now send it off to a reputable gunsmith and get it really tricked out for the long range game. Also in that year, you will begin to understand that the real challenge of the long range game is not so much the equipment as it is developing your ability to read the environmental conditions, develop good form and establish your own mental disciplione and control necessary to consistently hit at the longer ranges. After a year, it will also be about time to start getting into reloading, as that is what will push your "new" custom rifle to its full potential.
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