Best short barrel 9mm rounds

[Candiru]

My pair of carry guns consists of a Kahr PM9 and a Kahr P9. Together they cover 95% of my carry needs while providing identical manuals of arms, trigger action, and holster compatibility. I'm happy with the two of them, but I've been forced to reconsider my choice of self-defense ammo and wanted some input from the THR community.

Lately, I've been carrying 115-grain 9mm Speer Gold Dots on the basis of light recoil, cheap practice ammo, and small meplats to aid feeding. However, I recently read the FBI gel tests that showed light 9mm rounds to have consistent expansion problems through cloth or other barriers.

So it looks like I'm in the running for a new 9mm self-defense round, one that meets the following criteria:

1. Performs well out of short barrels (3" and 3.5") with respect to hitting the 12"-18" penetration "sweet spot" and expanding reliably.
2. Preferably not +P. Kahrs have pronounced muzzle flip, which makes +P rounds hard to control. In fact, the shorter I can get my splits with this ammo, the better.
3. Preferably not 147-grain. 147-grain 9mm rounds seem like trying to shoehorn 9mm into .38 Special ballistics. More practically, I'm worried about feeding issues due to the rounds' length and wide meplats.

The preferences above are not hard-and-fast, as my short list below indicates. That being said, here's the short list:

• 124-grain Remington Golden Sabers: These seem to get great expansion in gel tests, although I don't know how much velocity they would develop out of a short barrel.
• 124-grain +P Federal EFMJ: Although they're +P rounds, I think the expanding point would expand reliably despite being fired from a short barrel. The main appeal here is the fact that they're really inexpensive for premium ammunition when purchased from Ammoman.
• 124-grain +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel: Yeah, they're +P, but Speer appears to dial down the recoil on their short-barrel ammo. Problem is, are these things even available for purchase yet?

I know there are a bunch of threads asking for ammo advice, even if the caliber is limited to 9mm. However, none of them seem to address the niche of short-barrel, recoil-intensive firearms. That being said, if anyone knew what works best out of pocket polymer, he or she would probably post here.

 

[sgt127]

Whenever I carry my PM9, I load it with the same thing I practice with. WWB 115 Personal Defense HP. I don't put alot of stock in hollowpoints working at the velocities those 9mm's get out of short barrels. But, I have shot close to a thousand rounds of that WWB and the gun runs flawlessly and is very accurate and, I KNOW where its going to hit. The premium ammo's are getting stupidly expensive these days, I can't justify that and I wonder how many people can really afford to run several hundred rounds of that ammo through their gun and be certain of its reliability and POA.

Every ammo I have ever seen is tested to almost ridiculous degrees..against denim...leather jackets..window glass...car windows...and, given any certain test, any one may or not perform better than the next. I just don't know that the guy that will attack me will be wearing a goosdown jacket, a T shirt and be an ex Con that weighs 350 lbs and that 12 inches of penetration will always make it to his vitals. Or, a shirtless 145 pound speed freak....

Best of luck, it may be a never ending quest.

 

[DaleJunior]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=152606

 

[middy]

Why is a 3.5" barrel short when it's on an autoloader, but not when it's on a revolver?

147-grain 9mm rounds seem like trying to shoehorn 9mm into .38 Special ballistics

I don't get it.

 

[ABBOBERG]

Because on a revolver, you don't figure in the cartridge length like you do in an auto. So the "auto equivalent" of 3-1/2" barrel on a revolver will be 3-1/2 plus, say, 1-1/4", which gives you 4-3/4".

 

[rhubarb]

Mr. Candiru and Friends, meet GoldenLoki and his tests with the illustrious KelTec P11:

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9mm/gel9.htm

Best info on 9 millionmeter out of a short barrel I've seen. No, he didn't test every single defensive round made for 9mm. So?

His results:

# 124-grain Remington Golden Sabers:
Velocity fps 1009
Ft/Lb Energy 280
Penetration In. 15.2
Expansion In. .621
all rounds expanded

# 124-grain +P Federal EFMJ:
Velocity fps 1094
Ft/Lb Energy 330
Penetration In. 15.2
Expansion In. .505
all rounds expanded

# 124-grain +P Speer Gold Dot
Not tested

 

[Onmilo]

Personally I haven't shot anybody with the stuff but I feel pretty confident in the Plain Jane Federal 115 jacketed hollowpoints I load in my Glock 26.
No huge muzzle flash and they are very controllable and above average, for hollowpoints, accurate for me.

 

[ABBOBERG]

Take the energy numbers from the Kel-Tec P11 tests and add about 10% for the Kahr PM9. The Kel-Tec has a lot more chamber clearance than the Kahr, resulting in about 7-9% more loss out the back. The rest of the energy difference is accounted for in the polygonal rifling.

 

[armoredman]

I asked Evan marshall about the generic Remington 115gr JHP I carry, and he stated they are fne, good ballistics, though there are better rounds out there. Someday, when I have money again, I will start getting some Fed EFMJ - I really like the idea of that stuff.

 

[DaleJunior]

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/bullets23e_20050223.htm

 

[bpisler]

My Kahr MK9 prefers Black hills 115
+P's with the gold dot bullet.It's
real easy to control,accurate at 15
yards (2") off hand and has been re-
liable.At 18 dollars a box from the
fine folks at midway usa it's not
going to break your wallet.But any
high quality 115-124 gr hollow point
will should work very well,just find
find the one thats accurate and is
reliable in your pistols.

 

[rhubarb]

Dale, I'm not sure how the article you posted relates to the subject at hand or what the point if (if you have a point). But it shore is funny.

Detroit Police Department starts investigation after word spreads that special bullets fail in crucial situations

*A Detroit officer fired at a robbery suspect, who had fired a gun. The bullet hit the suspect's head but did not penetrate. He was hospitalized with a head wound, but an examination showed the bullet did not enter his skull -- perhaps because the man had a metal plate in his head from a previous injury.

*the suspect was struck 11 times. But when the officers and evidence technicians examined the man's body, they reported that at least one of the bullets had failed to penetrate his thick winter jacket.

So .40 SW doesn't penetrate metal plates in skulls, and in one out of eleven shots fails to penetrate a heavy coat of a dying suspect. Headline: "Cops: Ammo lacks punch."

 

[BluesBear]

I think the point of the article in this thread is to address the limitations of the EFMJ ammunition in the real world.

Now I have personally seen a man who was shot at near contact range with a 9mm FMJ and survived. The bullet hit his forhead and for some reason took a 90º turn and traveled around the skull between the skin and the bone until it exited the back and lodged itself into the laundromat wall.
I'd really like to know what went through the robber's mind as the man he thought he had just shot thrugh the head stood there and returned fire with a .38. But since he didn't survive we can only guess. (As we smile)
Perhaps we shouldn't discredit the "Guardian Angel" factor.

 

[YammyMonkey]

Wow, somebody referenced one of my threads, I feel so. . . special.

If I had kept the gun I probably would have gone with whichever 124 or 147 grain load had been the best combination of reliable, accurate and low flash. Since I sold it, I can't really help you out much, sorry.

I would definitely want to try the new Speer GD short bbl loads though.

If you're in CO I have a bunch of 9mm ammo (practice and defensive) I could sell ya if you're interested.

 

[mini14jac]

I use the 124gr +P Gold Dots in my PM9, and in my Glock 19.
You can tell it's a more powerful round than the WWB I normally shoot, but shot recovery and accuracey are excellent.

Georgia Arms makes an excellent Gold Dot load at a great price.
(It's new ammo, not reloads.)