Bias Against Glocks or Is It Just Me?

[ArmedBear]

Grab a gun. Make sure it's empty.

Close your eyes. Keep 'em closed.

Point the gun at something with your arms and hands in a natural position. Open your eyes.

Are you looking through the sights, already lined up, at the target?

Or do you have to adjust your wrist to get the sights to line up?

If you want to shoot fast from a low gun position, you don't want to have to adjust your wrist. You want the gun to "point" naturally, like an extension of your hand.

Interestingly, some different guns do that for me. Very different. And some don't.

One reason the SAA has been a popular design for so long is that it points naturally for many people. Ditto for the 1911. BUT... They don't work for everyone either. Not everyone likes 'em, that's for sure.

 

[mavracer]

Before this gets locked, can someone please educate me as to how the grip angle of a Glock doesn't fit you?

the grip angle does not point naturally,IE. when I draw the gun from a holster the front sight is way above the rear,making me have to adjust to get a proper sight picture.

 

[41magsnub]

the grip angle does not point naturally,IE. when I draw the gun from a holster the front sight is way above the rear,making me have to adjust to get a proper sight picture.

Exactly, that is the only reason I do not own one. That, and the Glock 21 grip is just far too big for my manly palmed, short fingered hands.

 

[camslam]

ArmedBear: Thanks for the heads up. I just tried it with my Glock and Beretta and didn't find much of a difference. But maybe that just shows my ignorance. I don't claim to be a gunsmith, gun guru, or gun master, but I have shot my share of guns and rounds in my lifetime.

I'm not saying that one gun isn't more comfortable than another, but to hear some of the posters in this thread talk about the grip angle on a Glock you would think they are contorting their hands and wrists into positions better suited for offending people.

I guess I will have to continue in my ignorance and keep my fingers crossed that I will be able to continue to shoot different types of guns and still hit what I am shooting at.

Good times.

 

[mavracer]

it's funny how these glock threads end up.
Brand X user "I don't like glocks because bla bla bla"
Glock fan "bla bla bla thats petty/untrue you should sell brand X glocks are better"

 

[ArmedBear]

I think it's entirely possible for a Beretta and a Glock to point naturally for the same person.

Maybe a 1911 wouldn't work for you, or maybe you'd want the round backstrap -- not all 1911's are the same, either.

The only point is, it doesn't matter if a gun is the best gun ever made. It ALSO has to work well for the shooter, to be the best gun for him or her.

And... It's entirely rational not to buy a gun, no matter how good it is, that doesn't feel right to you.

 

[camslam]

Thanks for the replies. Quick follow up question.

Is the adjustment you guys are making to bring the front and rear sights into alignment a good 1/2 inch or more, or are we talking a millimeter of movement or so?

It seems to me that with most of the guns I shoot as I bring them into firing position and prepare to shoot, there is usually a small amount of movement to finalize before I shoot.

I just have never noticed that much movement to align the sights between the different types of guns that I own and shoot.

Interesting information nonetheless, so thanks.

 

[ArmedBear]

For me, with a Glock, it's a good 1/2" or more.

 

[DawgFvr]

What we see here are a few people with attitude problems. Personally, I never held a weapon I could not master. I sold a few and still own a few: S&W, Ruger, Springfield, Kel Tec, Glock, and a Beretta. I own a few rifles and a shotgun...carried one for Uncle Sam for twenty-two years. Now for the life of me, I still cannot understand people whining about "it doesn't fit my hand"...or "It just doesn't point right for me."

Not only can a Chimp grasp a glock...I could teach that Chimp how to fire it accurately. Did it for a living...and you know what, with a little bit of my time and effort, I could even teach some of you whiners out there how to do it if you would open up your minds.

 

[BigGunsMoreFun]

I see no particular bias

I personally don't like Glocks. I have owned 3 and none of them were very good guns in my opinion. I posted about this in detail on another thread and several Glock lovers got their panties in a bunch so I won't repeat my findings here.

I read and comment fairly often on several of the forums here and I see no particular bias against Glocks. Many people like them and have said so. I don't like them and I have said so only once. A couple of Glock Nazis shot me down in flames so I just left it at that. I see no reason to argue over a difference of preference in handguns.

I could understand if I got one that was bad but when I get three in the space of a few years and each one has the same problems and I have no such problems with other handguns from reliable manufacturers, then I pretty much form the opinion that Glocks are not the greatest.

You want to see bias, post anything that says a Glock is not the most perfect gun in the world. Then you'll see real bias.

I think for the most part, the folks that post here and the management are all good folks with widely varied opinions. Discussions can get heated at times but it's not that often that they get insulting.

The only bias I found here is that I think we are all biased against the Brady Bunch and the anti-gun crowd. I call that a good kind of bias.

Shoot what you like. Say what you want. As long as it doesn't violate THR rules, nobody really cares anyway. Like I read earlier in another thread, what are you going to get mad at? A fake name on an Internet forum.

If things get too out of hand, THR management is usually on top of it and I've found them to be pretty fair so far. Once in a while they miss one but not often.

Buy and shoot what you enjoy. Who cares what others think if you like it?

Molon Labe,
Joe

 

[ArmedBear]

How is it "whining" to purchase a gun that fits right?

Man, I've got much better things to do than practice with something that feels unnatural, if there are readily-available alternatives. I've got much better things to do than shoot an uncomfortable pistol all the time, too.

Doesn't mean I couldn't learn to use whatever I had to. But why would I want to bother? I wouldn't buy boots that don't feel right, either.

 

[camslam]

Hey ArmedBear: Have you thought maybe it is YOUR wrist that is the problem.

All kidding aside, thanks for the info, that is something I am going to passively take note of when I shoot from here out.

Cheers.

 

[C-D-P]

If the gun is not broken, and you simply find it more difficult to shoot and come on target with, who has the problem?, you or the gun?

I have yet to find a pistol that I could not train myself to rather quickly.

 

[ugaarguy]

DawgFvr, if you'd open your mind you'd see that people have legitimate complaints against Glock pistols. Instead, you call folks close minded whiners.

 

[Hawk]

..and you know what, with a little bit of my time and effort, I could even teach some of you whiners out there how to do it if you would open up your minds.

While I could no doubt eventually get used to it I saw no reason to do so if the STI trigger suited me better and didn't require a learning curve of any type.

We whiners are perhaps not communicating the issue clearly: it's not a matter of what can be done. It's a matter of what we care to do.

Where's the motivation? Why would anyone exert any effort whatsover to adapt to a firearm if he owns one that doesn't require the effort? Unless, of course, it's issued by his agency or for whatever reason he has no choice in what he carries.

The [insert brand here] works for me "as is". I could afford it, I bought it. Everybody's happy. Doesn't mean Glock sucks, just means Glock requires effort that I'm unwilling to put forth because [insert brand here] doesn't require it.

Besides, it's all some of us civvies can do to get trained in what we've chosen. Adding another manual of arms is unproductive in the absence of a compelling reason to do so. Glock has not provided me with a compelling reason - it served well until I found something that suited me better. If I had to revert to one in the event of a zombie infestation I could do so and I'm sure I would be glad to have it.

 

[ArmedBear]

Shotgun competitors can spend a lot of time and money getting a gun to fit right. It improves their score, even if they're already among the top shooters in the world. And try looking up "Purdey Try Gun" on the Web sometime...

Serious rifle shooters do the same thing, though they are more likely to have adjustable stocks.

Casual pistol shooters, and those forced to shoot what they're issued, just haven't caught on to the idea of "gun fit" as much as serious long gun shooters. But it's valid for pistols, too.

 

[ceadermtnboy]

I would hate to mess with any chimp that could grip and shoot a Glock. Are we saying that all Glock fanatics can shoot just as good as a Chimp or does the Chimp have a tactical advantage because their hands fit a 2x4 when tilted at a weird angle better the average human?

 

[Ltlabner]

Ltlabner, you are not communicating clearly. If you actually read your post, it seems you have a problem with guys who walk out of a "tactical" store when they don't want to buy what is for sale, because for some reason, in your world, they should want to. If that's not what you meant, you sure didn't express it well.

I could care less what people buy, what they like or why they like it. I could care less if people like Glock, Smith & Wesson or HiPoints (well, maybe not HiPoints ). You got a legit beaf against Rugers...don't buy em. That's what makes guns so fun...there's a little something for everyone. Hell, I've got a recient passion for 3rd generation Smith & Wesson automatics (i.e. 4013, 4006, etc). How's that for peanut butter in your glocklet?

The only point of the tactical store story was to underscore that there are *some* folks who are biased against anything that doesn't fit their criterion of what a "real" or "tradional" gun should be.

I don't know how to make it any more clear that I do not care what people's passions are when it comes to firearms.

My only gripe is that *some* people (as in the general people, not the specific person YOU) have biases against particular weapons with no rational basis other than whatever pre-concieved notion they have made up in their minds. And as such they dismiss a weapon out of hand.

Perhaps this will make my point.

I don't "get" Blackpowder rifles. Don't interest me in the least. To me, to simply say, "it's not my cup of tea" seems pretty reasonable. But if I said, "I don't like Blackpowder rifles because they cover me in gunpowder, hurt my ears and are dull" without ever having shot one, that would be pretty damn silly, wouldn't it?

Similarlly, there's plenty of people who don't care for Glocks because they don't fit their hands well, don't shoot well or simply because wounder 9's aren't their "cup of tea". That's all cool with me. Again, everybody has their thing, and in the wonderfull world of firearms there is room for all commers.

It's when people have a preconcieved notion that Glocks (or any plastic gun) aren't "a real mans gun" or spread the myth that every other Glock is going to Kb in your hand, or dismiss a poly-framed gun because of some crappy plastic they had in 1953 that the reasons (IMO) goes from reasonable to completly nuts.

Again, I don't care what people like when it comes to guns. But if someone just regurgitates internet myths, refuses to evolve past the 1950's or flat out makes up crap to justify my opinion, I get bent out of shape....whether it's a Glock, a Walther or a Remington.

 

[Ltlabner]

You want to see bias, post anything that says a Glock is not the most perfect gun in the world. Then you'll see real bias.

Nah, I don't agree. Sure, you'll get some fanyboys but for those willing to listen, there are some of us Glock fans who are reasonable.

Glock stock sights suck wind. Just slightly better than completley useless.

The grip length doesn't favor those of us with short hands. No stock option for grip adjustment.

If you like a clean, crisp, 1911 style trigger you will hate the Glock trigger which (IMO) has a lot of takeup and then the weapon fires.

The stock slide release is so small that it's not uncommon for the slide to release and close when slamming a mag into place during a reload. At the range it's a minor irritation which requires a press-check. In the middle of a gunfight....not good by any strech.

For some reason, and maybe it's just my hand, but with my Glocks it's very easy to pinch my handskin when slamming a mag home.

See.....it's entirely possible for a Glock owner to calmly and reasonbly list off the short comings of the "perfect" system.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Once again, a thread drops below THR standards thanks to the efforts of a few...