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Black culture and anti-gun support

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Voting While Black

I get into this conversation with many of my black friends all the time. After they complain about violence in the streets.

Who did you vote for last as your city council member or senator and where did he/she stand on gun control?

Uh....Im not sure.

Did you vote for him/her because they were black or because their record of defending your civil liberties and the constitution are strong? :rolleyes:

Thankfully, the latino vote remains diverse.
 
Then how can they afford all of these services? Do they rob banks? Please do not make it sound like these are lazy people.


I didn't say they were lazy, did I?

I said that they like to have others do their labor for them.

That doesn't mean they are not productive in their respective careers.

Look, I grew up in this -- I know of what I speak. There was nary a Jewish family I knew (or was related to) that didn't have a pool service and a lawn service do that work for them.

I think it is a natural extension of that mindset to believe (for better or worse, and usually worse) that the police are there to protect them, and will not fail to do so.

We know otherwise.
Every crime that is committed, is a crime that was not stopped by police, yes?


-Jeffrey
 
I think the NRA should try harder to educate people of color about the history of gun control, and their organization, even though I hate their politics.


Why do I have such a strong feeling that if the NRA tried a "black education outreach" program, it would be flamed from the left as racist, degrading, exploitative -- that the NRA was just trying to "use" blacks? Cynical lies accusing the NRA of all kinds of racism and bigotry would splatter across the editorial pages of every newspaper in America.

-Jeffrey
 
Quote:
Why do I have such a strong feeling that if the NRA tried a "black education outreach" program, it would be flamed from the left as racist, degrading, exploitative -- that the NRA was just trying to "use" blacks? Cynical lies accusing the NRA of all kinds of racism and bigotry would splatter across the editorial pages of every newspaper in America.

You're probably right, but, because of possible(albeit predictable) criticism, they shouldn't do it? If that happens, they can simply present the truth, which is, gun control is racist. This is the article that got me started with gun ownership:
http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=916

Look at it this way: isn't it better to educate my people(those who don't already know) about the history of gun control and responsible gun ownership and ccw, setting the stage for that information to be passed down generation to generation, as opposed to shying away because of criticism, and having some kid's first contact with a gun owner come in the form of some gangbanger holding his gat sideways 'cause that's how they do it in the movies?? :what:
 
peacefuljeffery,

I understand what you mean. Hell, one day if I can afford it, I'll probably hire gardening/pool/whatever services. I was never too good at home improvement stuff. However, I refuse to be unarmed. I wish more Jews would realize another holocaust is unlikely to occur if everyone is armed.
 
Seansean, the best you can do is talk to people that are willing to listen and make sure your kids are raised the right way. Many people dont want to hear the truth and want to avoid even thinking in a direction that will reveal it. There is nothing you can do. You saw the reception that Bill Cosby got for telling the truth.

My mother's friend from work is a left wing black woman. I swear, in the course of 10 minutes she said:
1) how she loved Bernie Goetz and she approved of the movie Death Wish, a stance I thought was a little extreme (since I dont advocate revenge). She said that robbers and so on need to be shot and that it was a good thing. She basically advocated vigilante justice, which is way more than I was hoping. I was like "thank god, a pro-gun black person, at last"
2) that guns are evil and dangerous and people dont need them! What? Yes, that is exactly what she said, not a minute later. With a straight face. In completely seriousness.

I was speechless, which is fortunate (especially since my mom was there), because I just wanted to say "bitch are you crazy? How are you going to shoot robbers if you dont have a gun?"

Anyway, this sort of attitude was pretty common back when I lived in NYC. When I told her I had lots of guns she was horrified.

nplz.gif
 
Well gents,

I don't care WHAT color they are, if they try to trample my RTKBA, I am against you, PERIOD. I am African American and I could care less what color you are.

MaceWindu
 
I was speechless, which is fortunate (especially since my mom was there), because I just wanted to say "bitch are you crazy? How are you going to shoot robbers if you dont have a gun?"

Anyway, this sort of attitude was pretty common back when I lived in NYC. When I told her I had lots of guns she was horrified.

Yup. Because the undeveloped mind is so simplistic, it automatically equates having a gun with being a murderous psychopath. There is no room for actual thought in such a mind. She could not stop to realize, "Oh, well, I know this nice young man and have always thought well of him and now that I know he owns 'lots of guns,' nothing should change."

She also could not stop to think about the fact that the police department has 'lots of guns,' and the army has 'lots of guns.' That would require her stepping out from behind her lovely protective mental barriers (you know, the kind that never quite actually work worth a damn) and doing some real thinking, analyzing, and understanding of logical matters. One such logical matter involves the realization that good people do good things with guns, and bad people are the ones who do bad things with them.


In her support of gun-less vigilante justice, perhaps she is thinking of vigilante justice in the form of machete-hackings, or burning tires placed around the neck of bound captives? SO much more humane and civilized than using *GASP* one of those EVIL GUNS! :rolleyes:

-Jeffrey
 
I don't care WHAT color they are, if they try to trample my RTKBA, I am against you, PERIOD. I am African American and I could care less what color you are.

MaceWindu

Mace, I sure hope you mean that if THEY try to trample your RKBA, you will be against THEM (not "you," meaning ME!) :p

I also hope you COULDN'T care less what color I am. If you COULD care less, then you DO care currently... :uhoh:

-Jeffrey
 
To clarify,

Any person or group trying in infringe upon my 2nd amendment rights, can count me as an opponent. Our Bill of Rights is colorless. I don't vote for candidates based on their color, I vote based on their political "record" and outlook.

MaceWindu
 
Mace, I started out at The Firing Line.com some seven years back. However imperfectly stated, I've come to conclude that there are thousands of folks with exactly the same attitude as yours.

:), Art
 
As a Jew, I can say that PeacefulJeffrey made an excellent observation. And while my mother is an avid landscaper and my uncle a brilliant contractor, most wealthy Jewish people have an almost fanatical devotion to not doing anything to sustain their own existence. Cooking, home repair, self defense, regular maintenance... all these activities are a sign that you're not making it in life.

Heck, my wife and I are closing on a house, and her parents reminded us that we'd have to save money for a gardener every month. Meanwhile, they KNOW my wife considers gardening to be one of her passions. They therefore must honestly think that I wouldn't be able to bring myself to actually mow our extremely tiny front lawn. Unbelievable.

However, I think there is an added element to Jewish fear of weapons. Part of it is the fact that we're urban, and as such regularly see those icky minorities toting guns and robbing us with them. Given our lack of research, we assume there's a legislative "fix" for it. And since we can't be openly racist (though many affluent Jews are shockingly bigoted towards minorities) we have to take away the guns instead.

And, as the ADL loves to point out, white gentiles who own guns are all anti-semitic militia members who just can't wait to start killing us. And, as a tiny minority, arming ourselves would be pointless against the raging hordes of Jew-haters we convince ourselves are battering down the gates.

(Ever since I became a gun owner, I've discovered just how much I love other gun owners. They're consistently the most principled, competent, trustworthy individuals I encounter.)

However, my friend's grandfather, a Jew and Polish Partisan in WWII, bought pistols and shotguns and brought them to the house every time things got a little dicey. His generation knows the truth, and they're dying out fast.

I can't speak to the black experience. However, I do see them at the range pretty regularly, which tells me they're not totally lost.
 
most wealthy Jewish people

ok ARGH! i am not a Jew, and i Am SICK TO DEATH with TOTAL BS statements like that. it is predjudice and stereotypical. it is how my ex GF thought it was ok to say things like "that cheap Jew"

the reality- RICH people don't like to lift a finger to do anything. maybe some still do their own stuff, but as a person who gets about half their income from the super rich of ALL backgrounds- none of these people want to lift a finger for anything.

you are perpetuating a stereotype that may seem harmless, but ultimately it leads to "i won't date a Jew" and worse. seriuosly. experienced it firsthand by folks who acted more like the so called "Jew" than the actual Jews i know.

also-
Quote:
Why do I have such a strong feeling that if the NRA tried a "black education outreach" program, it would be flamed from the left as racist, degrading, exploitative -- that the NRA was just trying to "use" blacks? Cynical lies accusing the NRA of all kinds of racism and bigotry would splatter across the editorial pages of every newspaper in America.

agree totally
 
Economics 101

When one has more time than money, you tend to do a lot of things yourself. When one has more money than time, you tend to hire things done.

Or, If I make $100/hr doing what I do, and it takes me two hours to mow the lawn, the 'opportunity cost' to me is $200; that is, if I stick to my business I could make $200, but by mowing the lawn myself, I'm giving up the opportunity to make that $200. If I can hire a lawn sevice to do it for $40 while I go to work, I'm still ahead $160.

OTOH, if I only make $25/hr and hire the same lawn service to do it for $40, I have to work over 2 hours (taxes, ya know) to pay the lawn service, so I've lost both the 2 hrs and the $40, which would make me both lazy and stupid.

Clearly, for a successful Jewish (or any other kind of) professional making good money, it only makes sense to hire stuff out that cost you less than the value of your own time, i.e the time it would take to do the same task yourself. It ain't hard :what:
 
Eeeeaaasy there, partner... we're talking about trends and likelihoods. There will always be exceptions.

It's just something I've noticed about the people around me, growing up Jewish in a diverse environment that nonetheless contained a lot of my co-religionists.

I didn't go into the many GOOD points of these same people, of which there are tons, because they were not pertinent to the discussion.

Still, I told a Jewish friend that I had come to this decision in life, and she actually said: "Gun ownership? But that's so... gentile!" I then explained to her the fact that that attitude has gotten us in trouble in the past. And since she's known for playing the "Schindler's List" theme on the violin, she took the hint.
 
Mike,

Good points.

However, I think there is an added element to Jewish fear of weapons. Part of it is the fact that we're urban, and as such regularly see those icky minorities toting guns and robbing us with them.

I understand. But, I would think that people who have a Jewish background would be the FIRST to arm themselves because of the WWII experience and learn from it, so I'm lost on that one.

Hitler did what? First, disarmed the population.....I would think that people like Feinstein and Boxer, who's people were murdered would understand that, alas, no.

Why do I have such a strong feeling that if the NRA tried a "black education outreach" program

I think this would be an excellent idea. Education, education, education is the key.

MaceWindu
 
You With the Purple Light Sabre:

Now you know how frustrated I am.

My family members who remember WWII are more ambivalent about guns. My Great Uncle, for example, let slip while talking about something else and told his wife that blaming guns for crime doesn't make sense.

However, one of our crazier members was a gun enthusiast. He never hurt anybody, but now owning a gun is associated with him.

The problem is the baby-boomer generation. Judaism preaches peace, which is wonderful. This, however, pushed every baby-boomer Jew I know into the late 60s peace movement, and gun ownership was a hard-hat, reactionary, violent activity. They also lost a lot of bright, shiny stars to hate-filled jerks with guns, and it just has a way of adding up.

Fortunately, I think the 9/11 generation will prize self defense over pacifism. And I'll do my part to help. (I've already nudged two buddies into gun ownership.)
 
"Jews like peace"

WHAT? I assure you, this is a thoroughly modern European invention, predicated off jewish disenfranchisement and disarmmament.

The Almighty as depicted in what christians refer to as the Old Testament (the only testament jews read) was an unabashedly war-loving god who showed special favoritism to his people by allowing them to triumph in battle over people like philistines and caanites etc. They war with the philistines to this very day.

As any gun owning israeli jew will tell you, Judaism and war are completely compatible with one another.
 
You With the Purple Light Sabre

Yeah, thats on the hip. But there is nothing like a good ol' 1911... :D

I should have seen that little POS Anakin comin.....never did trust that little punk!


MaceWindu
 
I just finished reading "Warrior Soul" by Chuck Pfarrer...

and I quote: "...a well trained David, can kick Goliath in the balls every time..."


MaceWindu
 
Peace thru Superior Firepower

One does not sue for Peace from the kneeling position.

Peace is a fine thing, but given human nature, the best way to obtain and maintain is with more than adequate strength and power. The hard part is maintaining it, which requires such ideals as Liberty and Justice for all.
 
I would argue that most Blacks vote Democrat not because they have any opinion on guns, but because of other important policies for them, esp. government supported programs for Black education, economic betterment, affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws, hate crime laws, and so forth.

Most Jews on the other hand are against gun rights because they have a paranoid fear of "right wing anti-Semites" running around using their guns to shoot Jews, which from history I suppose they have learned from all the Pogroms against them in Christian Europe. This is why Jews tend to support a very strong authoritarian central government to help stop "folk anti-semitism."

Do a search on Google for "Jews and the Left" as well as "Jews and Neo-Conservatism."
 
And, as the ADL loves to point out, white gentiles who own guns are all anti-semitic militia members who just can't wait to start killing us. And, as a tiny minority, arming ourselves would be pointless against the raging hordes of Jew-haters we convince ourselves are battering down the gates.

Has the ADL ever heard of Mordecai Anielewicz and the ZOB?
 
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