california legal carbine choices
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SpookyPistolero
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Mini forum
Round Count
Well, I started looking through all the old Mini threads and lost my patience. The top site above is for a Mini forum, where I'd say you'd find lots of helpful info and probably more than one story of how long someone's has lasted. The next site is to people listing the round counts they have in their Mini's. Thought you would find them interesting. If you search around, you will find lots of THR info on the subject.
Round Count
Well, I started looking through all the old Mini threads and lost my patience. The top site above is for a Mini forum, where I'd say you'd find lots of helpful info and probably more than one story of how long someone's has lasted. The next site is to people listing the round counts they have in their Mini's. Thought you would find them interesting. If you search around, you will find lots of THR info on the subject.
sigstroker
Member
I've owned Mini-14's, AR-15's, M1 carbines, and M1-A's. The Mini-14 feels flimsy, has a lot of loose parts, is built cheap like using folded sheetmetal for a hammer, a backwards gas system that can seize up, and lousy sights. There's no comparison between it and the military-derived rifles.
I'm going to shoot some 3-gun soon and my plan was to use my M1 carbine. It doesn't matter if some people like the ammo or not, it makes Minor power factor and that's all I care about. There are some disadvantages. I don't know of any 10 round magazines for it and surely wouldn't advocate breaking of the law on the internet to get some. I already have a good stockpile so it's not a problem for me. However, the 15 round magazines put me at a disadvantage compared t the AR's. I've tried various 30 rounders but they're not very reliable. Also it's not easy to add optics. An M1-A would work better but would cost a lot more. I think you can get 10 round mags.
Forget the pump. It will suck when shooting prone, which you can bet on having to do in a 3-gun.
I don't know why someone doesn't design and make an AR lower with a tradional pistol grip. They would sell the piss out of them. It would be considerably different than an AR-15 so it shouldn't fall under the law banning AR-15's and their clones.
I'm going to shoot some 3-gun soon and my plan was to use my M1 carbine. It doesn't matter if some people like the ammo or not, it makes Minor power factor and that's all I care about. There are some disadvantages. I don't know of any 10 round magazines for it and surely wouldn't advocate breaking of the law on the internet to get some. I already have a good stockpile so it's not a problem for me. However, the 15 round magazines put me at a disadvantage compared t the AR's. I've tried various 30 rounders but they're not very reliable. Also it's not easy to add optics. An M1-A would work better but would cost a lot more. I think you can get 10 round mags.
Forget the pump. It will suck when shooting prone, which you can bet on having to do in a 3-gun.
I don't know why someone doesn't design and make an AR lower with a tradional pistol grip. They would sell the piss out of them. It would be considerably different than an AR-15 so it shouldn't fall under the law banning AR-15's and their clones.
El Rojo
Member
How are you going to justify that in court? Just changing the pistol grip isn't going to pass the test. Plus you have to consider that the AG can add similar guns to the list at his will!
Even 50 Freak mentioned pinned mag ARs are ok. I was under the impression that it didn't matter what you did to it, an AR is an AR. I would be interested to hear 50's reasoning on the pinned AR comment.And thank you all for shutting down the anti-PRK statements. Other than the lawyerphobia on THR, the have to add my anti-PRK comments into your technical gun discussion ranks right on up there with annoying.
I have a SU-16, but I have been having ejection problems that I haven't bothered to figure out yet. It is either my ammo is loaded too light, or the gun is broken. I need to shoot some good quality factory FMJ through it to know for sure. My FAB-10 never seemed to have these problems with that ammo.
That new Remington pump is interesting, especially since it takes AR mags.
And as a completely selfish plug for myself, don't forget I should be a FFL Dealer here soon and you might want to ask me for a quote. With gas the way it is, it is more and more unlikely a couple hundred bucks is worth driving to Taft over, but you never know. I only make 10% so I might be able to save you some money.
sigstroker
Member
Because it would have to be changed considerably to make a traditional pistol grip work on it. The trigger would have to be relocated and the lockwork changed. It would require a new forging for the lower.
The whole non-fixed magazine California legal AR-15 idea was discussed extensively on www.calguns.net.
http://calguns.net/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/332609466/m/83210513711
You can read all 12 pages of discussion, but what it boiled down to was there were two problems. Firstly was what to do with the buffer tube. No one could think of a way to have the tube and a stock that met CA DOJ requirements for being not a pistol grip. The second problem they ran into was making sure that the rifle was sufficiently not an AR. They tried to get around this by using a different trigger group design. This then leads into the larger problem of the immense inconsistencies that the gun laws in California have had. Somehow a FAB-10 is not and AR since it has a pinned magazine, but a Saiga is an AK since the action is the same as an AK? So what standard should you use to make sure this new AR design is not an AR? Is it the ease by which the rifle can be converted into a full fledged AR, or is it the similarity of the action? So even if someone successfully designs a receiver that has a traditional style grip, they still have the possibility that the CA DOJ will rule that the rifle is too similar to the action of an AR-15. The problem is that the rulings by the DOJ have been arbitrary and ambiguous; therefore one cannot rely on any knowable form of logic to try and divine the meaning of the laws.
The best hope for a truly adequate 5.56 rifle for 3 gun competitions would be if Robinson Armament makes a California legal XCR, which they have been discussing doing. The SU-16CA might work too, but I would have more confidence in the XCR. If you wanted to go with a non 5.56 option I would say an M1A, M1 Carbine, or an SKS would all work fine as well.
http://calguns.net/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/332609466/m/83210513711
You can read all 12 pages of discussion, but what it boiled down to was there were two problems. Firstly was what to do with the buffer tube. No one could think of a way to have the tube and a stock that met CA DOJ requirements for being not a pistol grip. The second problem they ran into was making sure that the rifle was sufficiently not an AR. They tried to get around this by using a different trigger group design. This then leads into the larger problem of the immense inconsistencies that the gun laws in California have had. Somehow a FAB-10 is not and AR since it has a pinned magazine, but a Saiga is an AK since the action is the same as an AK? So what standard should you use to make sure this new AR design is not an AR? Is it the ease by which the rifle can be converted into a full fledged AR, or is it the similarity of the action? So even if someone successfully designs a receiver that has a traditional style grip, they still have the possibility that the CA DOJ will rule that the rifle is too similar to the action of an AR-15. The problem is that the rulings by the DOJ have been arbitrary and ambiguous; therefore one cannot rely on any knowable form of logic to try and divine the meaning of the laws.
The best hope for a truly adequate 5.56 rifle for 3 gun competitions would be if Robinson Armament makes a California legal XCR, which they have been discussing doing. The SU-16CA might work too, but I would have more confidence in the XCR. If you wanted to go with a non 5.56 option I would say an M1A, M1 Carbine, or an SKS would all work fine as well.
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