Can FFL mail gun back to jilted non-FFL seller?

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I have hesitated to offer refunds on low priced guns sold through Gunbroker because taking it back through my local FFL would cost me $96.00.

However, if I mail it to an FFL for transfer to the buyer and the buyer does not take it, can the FFL mail it back directly to me, the same way a gunsmith could return my gun to me after working on it?

The regulation seems to say that it is okay.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart I_Exemptions, Seizures, and Forfeitures

Sec. 478.147 Return of firearm.

A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may
ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other
provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or
licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that
person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type.
See Sec. 478.124(a) for requirements of a Form 4473 prior to return. A
person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship
a firearm curio or relic to a licensed collector for any lawful purpose,
and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed
collector may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person
the firearm curio or relic.

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10507, Mar. 31, 1988]

On the other hand, Sec. 478.124(a), cited in the above, requires a Form 4473 unless the gun was shipped to the FFL for repair or customizing:

§ 478.124 Firearms transaction record.
(a) A licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall
not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily
or permanently, of any firearm
to any person, other than another licensee,
unless the licensee records the
transaction on a firearms transaction
record, Form 4473: Provided, That a
firearms transaction record, Form 4473,
shall not be required to record the disposition
made of a firearm delivered to
a licensee for the sole purpose of repair
or customizing
when such firearm or a
replacement firearm is returned to the
person from whom received.

Based on the foregoing, I am not going to offer to have the FFL send it back directly to me if the buyer wants a refund.
 
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bushmaster1313: ...because taking it back through my local FFL would cost me $96.00.

1. Find a new FFL. $96 is outrageous.:what:
2. The law says he can ship it directly back to you, it doesn't say he has to. Most will want to ship interstate only to another FFL.
 
1. Find a new FFL. $96 is outrageous.

$75 for transfer
$17 for the NICS
Plus Tax

This is New Jersey, it is hard to find an FFL.

2. The law says he can ship it directly back to you, it doesn't say he has to. Most will want to ship interstate only to another FFL.

What about the Form 4473 since the gun was not sent for repair or customizing?

And, no transfers in New Jerseyon Sunday.

It is, however, perfectly legal to go to another state to buy a long gun if the purchaser delivers a New Jersey Certificate of eligibility and the New Jersey buyer has a New Jersey Purchasers Identification card. I do not know if it has to be through an FFL with a NICS check, but I would not do it otherwise.
 
Yes, he has to send it to an FFL in NJ.

Just add the stipulation that all shipping and return shipping charges, restocking fee, government fees, taxes and other associated costs (including your time to go to the FFL and fill out the paperwork and wait for the background check) are the responsiblity of the buyer should he choose to return the firearm.
 
Outside of jersey, would a transfer be counted to have happen if the buyer refused the gun??

Yes. Because it is Federal law, not state law. An FFL can ship a gun directly back to the original owner ONLY in the case of repairs or replacement. Returning a gun due to a failed sale requires a NICS check, and a form 4473.

Read paper pages 191 and 192 (electronic pages 192 and 193) of this document for more info:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
 
Yes. Because it is Federal law, not state law. An FFL can ship a gun directly back to the original owner ONLY in the case of repairs or replacement. Returning a gun due to a failed sale requires a NICS check, and a form 4473.

Read paper pages 191 and 192 (electronic pages 192 and 193) of this document for more info:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
Which point addresses the issue of returning a gun due to a failed sale?
 
No, the gun cannot be shipped back to a private individual. The only exception I am aware of in the law is a gun shipped back to the manufacturer for repair and returned.
 
Which point addresses the issue of returning a gun due to a failed sale?

The same rules would apply as those for a pawn broker. Once the FFL receives the firearm into his/her bound book, for other than repairs, a 4473 and NICS check must be executed to remove that firearm from their bound book. Even if the FFL themselves wants to add that firearm to their personal collection, they would have to do a 4473 and NICS check on themselves!
 
Also, 27 CFR 478.102:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.6.1.12&idno=27

Notice the regulation below applies also to "delivery". Even if the FFL is returning the firearm to the original owner, they are still delivering that firearm, even though no transfer of ownership is taking place:

§ 478.102 Sales or deliveries of firearms on and after November 30, 1998.
(a) Background check. Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer (the licensee) shall not sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this part unless the licensee meets the following requirements:

(1) Before the completion of the transfer, the licensee has contacted NICS;

(2)(i) NICS informs the licensee that it has no information that receipt of the firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal or State law and provides the licensee with a unique identification number; or

(ii) Three business days (meaning days on which State offices are open) have elapsed from the date the licensee contacted NICS and NICS has not notified the licensee that receipt of the firearm by the transferee would be in violation of law; and

(3) The licensee verifies the identity of the transferee by examining the identification document presented in accordance with the provisions of §478.124(c).

(b) Transaction number. In any transaction for which a licensee receives a transaction number from NICS (which shall include either a NICS transaction number or, in States where the State is recognized as a point of contact for NICS checks, a State transaction number), such number shall be recorded on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, which shall be retained in the records of the licensee in accordance with the provisions of §478.129. This applies regardless of whether the transaction is approved or denied by NICS, and regardless of whether the firearm is actually transferred.

(c) Time limitation on NICS checks. A NICS check conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) of this section may be relied upon by the licensee only for use in a single transaction, and for a period not to exceed 30 calendar days from the date that NICS was initially contacted. If the transaction is not completed within the 30-day period, the licensee shall initiate a new NICS check prior to completion of the transfer.

(d) Exceptions to NICS check. The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply if—

(1) The transferee has presented to the licensee a valid permit or license that—

(i) Allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm;

(ii) Was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and

(iii) The law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law: Provided, That on and after November 30, 1998, the information available to such official includes the NICS;

(2) The firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR part 479; or

(3) On application of the licensee, in accordance with the provisions of §478.150, the Director has certified that compliance with paragraph (a)(1) of this section is impracticable.

(e) The document referred to in paragraph (d)(1) of this section (or a copy thereof) shall be retained or the required information from the document shall be recorded on the firearms transaction record in accordance with the provisions of §478.131.
 
The same rules would apply as those for a pawn broker. Once the FFL receives the firearm into his/her bound book, for other than repairs, a 4473 and NICS check must be executed to remove that firearm from their bound book. Even if the FFL themselves wants to add that firearm to their personal collection, they would have to do a 4473 and NICS check on themselves!


Only if the FFL is held by a corporation or LLC, etc.

ATF Brady Law FAQ
Q: Does an individual (not a corporation or partnership) licensee have to conduct a NICS check on himself or herself prior to transferring a firearm to his or her own personal collection?
No. The regulations do not require a licensee to complete a Form 4473 prior to transferring a firearm to his or her own personal collection. A NICS check is not required either. Such transfers must be recorded in the manner prescribed by the regulations at 27 CFR 478.125a.
 
The exception of return of repaired or replaced firearm is in 27 CFR 478.124:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...=text;node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.4;idno=27;cc=ecfr

The return of a firearm to the original owner due to a failed sale would be considered as "otherwise disposing" of the firearm.

§ 478.124 Firearms transaction record.
(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the transaction on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473: Provided, That a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition made of a firearm delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing when such firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received.
 
In the OP's situation, he needs to list in the ad that if a gun is returned the buyer is responsible for all shipping and transfer fees.
Yep, he should. Also list it as an "as is" sale.

This situation points out the advantage of having an FFL do a "consignment" sale for you (assuming you can find one that does). You make some $, they make some $, and you are not going to run into all these potential expenses.

I do consignments for 15% of the final sale price. For that I pay all the expenses for the ad listings, do the appraisal, principal photography, write the ad copy, place the ad(s), answer buyers questions, collect the funds and ship/deliver to the final purchaser. When it's all done, they owner gets a check, less my 15% commission.

So far, everybody is very happy with that arrangement.

If there is a return (I've had one so far in some $50K of consignment sales), they just ship back to me and I re-list.
 
No, it can not be sent back directly to you, sorry.

Given the expenses involved ... you might want to see if the FFL on the other end is willing to buy it, or sell it for you on consignment.
 
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