CCI Velociter 22/LR at 300 Yards

[22-rimfire]

The Velocitor is one of the better choices for defensive use from a 22 rifle. Not optimal, but not terrible either as far as I'm concerned. As the saying goes... use what you got.

Never tried to hit anything at 300 yds with a 22 rifle other than plinking.

 

[MachIVshooter]

If a .22 is all you have, go for it.

Personally, I have much better options available both for SD and long range shooting. I'll keep my 10mm/45 Super/.44 Spl/etc for SD, and shooting my .220 Swift off that same bench at 300 yards, I'll wager that I would not have missed that meat pack with the first cold bore shot, and there wouldn't have been much left of it.

As for a .22 cal pistol for SD, the only one I've ever owned that I'd consider acceptable is my PMR-30. Not just a performance increase over the LR, but a huge capacity advantage. Still, I'll take my 4516-1 with 8 rounds of .45 Super over the PMR with 31 rounds for almost any defensive situation.

 

[Eb1]

What I don't get is that the simple answer is, yes. A .22 LR is good in defense. Beats nothing. Easy to control, can be fired rapidly without losing POA.
At room distance it is a bad day for the person on the wrong side of the muzzle. Most people prey on the weak. When you pull a gun, and have the intent to use it to protect yourself, you are not longer the weak in the eye of the attacker. There mindset changes quickly to "OH Crap!" In most cases.
Unless I am going up against an armored attacker, I would not have any doubts about ending an attack with a .22 LR. Be it single action revolver or a PMR-30 style .22 caliber pistol. Make that a carbine auto, and I feel even better about it.

Bust off a .22 LR at room distance center mass. Well. I don't know anyone who puts up an argument willing to put their theories to the test. Do you? The best answer is to arm yourself. It is your God given right to protect your life. America, arm yourself with whatever you have access to, and are proficient with. That is the bottom line.

 

[JohnnLoco]

If you shoot someone with a Velocitor in a vital area, he ain't getting up

I have killed several deer and Rottenwhylers with one shot chest shots using Velocitor at 60 yards or less and I can tell you the internal damage is substantial. They all dropped in place. I don't know how it does what it does but it does it well.

Its actually a perfect round. On small game it doesn't expand and on anything larger than 20lb, it tears them up.

I've been using the stuff since it first came out. I've shot them at flack vest and dug them out and they were .357 in diameter, didn't break apart, and firm. I've had this discussion a few times. If Regan was shot with a Velocitor, he would be dead.

A 10/22 with XS ghost ring sights and that new Ruger 25 round mag is a nasty 100 yard weapon.

300 yards ain't my bag with a 22LR

After saying all of this and personal testing on kills, I would still recommend the Stinger at 25 yards or less because at close range it seems to do more internal damage on 80lb plus targets.

 

[Warp]

If you shoot someone with a Velocitor in a vital area, he ain't getting up

You're right. He won't get up because he won't go down. Gotta go down before you can get up

 

[sansone]

I voted no, but if you got nothin' else, oh well

 

[Neo-Luddite]

It was a neat video/test. CCI makes a great product (and has for years). I bought a couple boxes and haven't had a chance to try them out.

As for a 'good'' defensive round? All those type discussions are relative merit discussions that are REALLY about hair splitting scenarios. That said, I would count on ANY CCI product to reliably fire and have superior strandards of primer reliability when compared with other rimfire brands. So I guess if your options were limited to .22, they would probably be a good bet in most weapons. If all I 'had on me' was my 10/22 and mark II---you bet they would BOTH be loaded with CCI products (or Federal, Winchester, and 'high end' Remington in that order).

The 'bigger picture' is that ALL handguns in common usage pale in defensive scenarios next to things like shotguns and centerfire rifles. I'd much sooner poor A HUGE amount of energy into a target than not enough. That said, if other concerns came into play (ie. the user is physically frail like my 80 yr old Mom and can't take larger recoil, laws prevnt having something more than .22, noise being a fcator, ect)---not so bad. Probably a good survival round for small game or 'quiet' taking of larger game on the cheap when resourses must be conserved.

 

[scaatylobo]

IMNSHO , the ONLY thing that counts is SHOT PLACEMTNT.

That being the case [ as I see it ] then the .22 can do as well if not better since most shooters are not near as good as they think they are.

Therefore a GOOD hit with a .22 beats the pants off a miss or bad hit with ANY caliber.

AND more have been 'taken out' with a .22 than with most other calibers put together.

That is counting all mob hits,all sentrys hits,and all assasinations.

If you actually practice as much as you pretend,then you can actually take eye/head shot with that .22 and hit multiple times in a very sensitive area.

It is not my first choice ,nor my last either.Less noise and FASTEST followup shots.

Oh and super cheap to shoot even the most expensive ammo.

 

[JohnnLoco]

Yes Sir, he'll go down and stay down.

I say let's do a youtube video with you as an example and see if you get up.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

South Carolina Trooper Mark Coates was rapidly incapacitated by a .22 bullet fired from a mini-revolver. The bullet cut a major artery and he quickly collapsed.

Coates had just shot his killer 5 times in the torso with his .357 Magnum revolver.

Partial dash cam video of the incident (just before Coates is shot) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ca-PAWBMnk

Interview of his killer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XakKDp-1UHw

 

[Neo-Luddite]

As I say (often) to my kids--the .22 has killed more than any other caliber. What guided me toward buying a couple of boxes of velociters to try out was that someone had described them as being (for lack of a better descriptive) an improvement over the stinger in terms of over-all feeding reliability (a few guns choke on stingers owing to their shape) and better down-range trajectory/power retention owing to higher mass and better momentum. I am not talented enough to rely on .22 as a defensive round; that's me. Everyone has to keep his/her own council in that regard and I go w/ .38 spl as a baseline for pistol-based defense knowing I'd sooner have a 12ga or carbine handy as a first line whenever possible.

 

[JohnnLoco]

NEO, for purpose of over-all feeding you owe it to yourself to hand cycle some truncated cone remingtons.

In a semi-auto with a barrel over 3.5", a 22LR would my first choice for self defense over anything below 380. Just practice clearing the missfire and be sure the gun has an extractor.

 

[gym]

No, not a carry weapon, can kill does kill many every year, but odds are not great.380 is the minimum, and not a bad overall round. I carried a 38 special and a ppks for 20 years before the 90's and they will put a man down just fine at close range which is where gunfights happen.

 

[JohnnLoco]

"odds are not great"

For what? Odds of a 22LR ending a civilian altercation is almost 100 percent.

 

[Snowdog]

I'm not a fan of the .22LR for defense either, but I won't say the .22LR isn't deadly.

If I had to use the little rimfire round for defense, it would likely be in something similar to a GSG-5. I can't imagine the .22LR not being effective to some degree when there are 20+ rounds at the ready.

I believe with some practice (and what better cartridge to practice with), even a bobbing head wouldn't be too challenging a target at defensive ranges. I also believe a 40gr .22 caliber lead slug humming along at 1400+ FPS would be a game-changer after slamming into the cranium of an assailant.

I'll stick with my M1 carbine or shotgun for defense, but I'm hesitant to critique anyone using a .22LR for defense if they've giving serious thought to strategy and invested in considerable trigger time.

 

[JohnnLoco]

I've read over the thread again and noticed this

"The pressure wave of a .22lr isn't going to do anything"

I ask, what is the pressure wave of a knife?

I'd take a chest shot with the Velocitor, no hesitation. The round holds together way better than I expected. The Perp is a done deal.

 

[Sky]

Actually I purchased some Aguila Hyper velocity that says;

Aguila Super Maximum Hyper Velocity (1750fps).22lr caliber rimfire ammunition. Features a 30grn solid point lead bullet. It comes packaged 50rds to a box, 500rds (10 boxes) to a brick and 5,000rds (10 bricks) to a case

1750 fps is nothing to sneeze at. I have not been able to try it out yet in the CMMG uppers that I purchased it for but am looking forward to the experience. We do have some 14" steel targets at 325 yards.....hummmmm

 

[Strykervet]

Actually I purchased some Aguila Hyper velocity that says;

Aguila Super Maximum Hyper Velocity (1750fps).22lr caliber rimfire ammunition. Features a 30grn solid point lead bullet. It comes packaged 50rds to a box, 500rds (10 boxes) to a brick and 5,000rds (10 bricks) to a case

1750 fps is nothing to sneeze at. I have not been able to try it out yet in the CMMG uppers that I purchased it for but am looking forward to the experience. We do have some 14" steel targets at 325 yards.....hummmmm

Well, if that is true, no need for the 5.7! 30gr. at 1750, that is the 5.7, no?

I had a friend killed by a .22 to the chest. He was a 7' 300lb Samoan, could do the 12mi. road march in a little over an hour. Simply a machine. DOA.

The thing about the .22 is that it is easier to fire accurately, but let's be honest, the .22 is not the best choice for defense. Many defensive shootings happen with the target in a defensive or aggressive position as well. You COULD ask him to keep his arms at his side while you take the shot, but don't count on it. Many times you have to shoot through hands, arms, or take oblique shots.

For assassination, yes, the .22 is probably sufficient. If you don't see it coming, a well aimed shot fired from a hushpuppy is very deadly. But you aren't an assassin.

Firing it at 300m...

Yes, you can do that too. Jerry Miculek shot a balloon at 230+y using a Smith 617, 6", a red dot, and fired upside down with the pinkie double action. He hit it on the third shot. I've shot steel sillhouettes at 300m using a 686+ 6". The thing about them both is that they don't have enough retained energy to do much at that distance. Hitting something and dropping something are two different things.

I used to shoot small targets with my 10/22 at 100yards. Been awhile since I took it past 50 though. I just don't use it for much past that anymore.

For 0-300m, it is hard to beat most M4 platforms. 5.56, 300blk, 6.5, 6.8, you name it. All are good, and most are good past that. The Beowulf is very accurate and very deadly out to 200m (where it falls like a brick after that). .22 is not there. If it were, I'm sure SF would use them for CQB.

If you are hunting deer with a .22, you have problems. I hope you get caught by Fish and Game. I think those shots are BS BTW, maybe TS given the source.

 

[JohnnLoco]

Nope, not BS. You let me worry about Fish & Game and you worry about your world. My Axis and Whitetail were nowheres as big as your 7' 300lb Samoan friend killed by a .22 to the chest. So whats BS now?

No, a 22LR ain't my first choice for defense but when it comes to defense against humans and small animals, I don't feel hindered at all.

In fact, because it carries the potential for less collateral damage, it could be the smart choice for some.

 

[gym]

Guys this 22 discussion has been gone over a million times. It's always the same. Two things , when you shoot someone you want then instantlly unable to do any more damage. Unless you hit the brain or heart, that's not going to happen with a 22. They are more dangerous from bouncing around off of bones and ending up being say shot in the hand, and the bullett ending up in your lung or brain stem. But you can't count on that for stopping the person from continuing the assault and killing you prior to funneling out of fluid if its even a chest shot.
Second why would you carry a 22 when it is not made for that purpose, if it were don't you think we would see more combat 22 pistols being made. Forget the 1 kel-tec made,it's at least a magnum, it will go by the wayside as a plinker, where it belongs. When you shoot someone, "God forbid, you want the conflict ended not that they are still able to move around and shoot back. You miss a guy with that 22, and he has a 45 or shotgun, all you did is give away your position, now he can just put rounds through the wall. Even if you hit him, he may have 3 or 4 layers of clothing on, or a vest, "if they are pro's" what good is that 22 now. Are you going to spend money putting a laser and a surfire on a $200 dollar gun. It just dosen't make sense. A home invasion is going to usually involve some serious guns, mine the had shotguns, if you want to go up against a 12 gauge with a 22, good luck.
We all know people are like engines, they stop when they run out of fuel, the 22 isn't going to cause enough bleeding fast enough, sometimes peple get shot with 22's and don't bleed, just little entrance hole, there are a lot of folks walking around with 22's in them from accidents where taking out the round was more risky than leaving it in.
It's bad enough when we have the 32vx380vs 38 debate, but 22's really. If that's all you have, sell it and buy something else.

 

[JohnnLoco]

"instantlly" damn sure can and does happen with a 22 on a regular basis and anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant. Your job in defense is to stop a threat not necessarily kill someone.

Many folks give themselves too much importance because most criminals seldom continue to force the situation when shot or confronted with a firearm when dealing with a regular street Joe. They are more apt to fight it out with Law enforcement.

Trust me, you can't "count" on nuthin regardless of caliber and If I shoot you in the chest with a Velocitor, you will, to use your term..."run out of fuel" right freekin then!!

I've seen a LE get shot in the vest with a 44 magnum and it didn't stop him either, he went on to kill the bad guy.

Since the bad guy is going to have the jump on you 99.9 percent of the time, all most of you are going to do is look stupid and do what you are told.

Too many folks think a gun makes them superman. If all you have is a 22LR, use it proudly. And if someone wants to put a Crimson Trace laser on a Bersa T22 then they are ahead of the power curve and more power to them.

To answer the original question again...Heck yeah a Velocitor in a rifle can be used as an efficient home defense round.

 

[Eb1]

Yes, you can do that too. Jerry Miculek shot a balloon at 230+y using a Smith 617, 6", a red dot, and fired upside down with the pinkie double action.

No, he did not. Watch the slow motion of that shot. The splatter from the bullet busted that balloon. He hit about 4' or more away from it. It was the bullet splatter. Not a direct hit.

 

[InkEd]

No. It's still a .22lr

 

[LAK]

Greatest hurdle shooting the .22 LR at distance is the wind. But in calm conditions careful matching of ammo to gun can produce some amazing results. Many folk at rimfirecentral.com have covered this topic quite well.

 

[JohnnLoco]

100 yards is my general max for a 22LR with hypervelocity shell. I want my 22 to have a 1" MBPR because I'm usually shooting smaller targets. I can do an easy head shot on feral cats at 100 yards and it still has enough power to tear half their head off. I've killed pitbulls at the same distance DRT.