CCW Holders: How much training have you had?

[romeo212000]

I have trained constantly with handguns doing more than slow fire and punching holes in paper since I was 16 (I'm 21 now) and I intend to continue my training by taking a defensive shooting pistol course at TDSA in Tulsa.

 

[mr.72]

I haven't got my CHL yet... but I intend to in the near future. Here's what I think about it.

1. if it is my right to keep and bear arms, then it is my responsibility to equip myself to do so safely and responsibly. Just like any other right that I am free to exercise, I should be accountable if I am negligent. So it should be my responsibility and duty to do it right, and to train my children to do so, etc.

2. if it is my right to keep and bear arms, then it is no business of the government's to impose fees or mandatory training. What if they did that before you would be allowed to vote? Or to speak? It's absurd.

The ONLY reason I am not carrying right now is because of the cost and schedule inconvenience of both the mandatory training course in TX and the fee to get the license. They can do a background check in 5 minutes and in fact they did when I bought the handgun. This should be sufficient. I took it upon myself to go to the range and learn to handle my gun promptly when I got it, and I sought the one on one training of those who I know and trust to teach me what I need to know, rather than an institutionalized minimum standard regimen. I think this is fair game.

I would not be so opposed to requiring a written test to verify you know the law. Some minimal fee in order to grade the test and administer the (one time, forever) license would be fine, coupled with the 5 minute electronic background check. Like $20 max. But $250-300 in fees and training costs, not to mention an entire 10 hour work day that must be committed to a continuous course is a steep impediment IMHO.

I'm in favor of training, just not state-mandated, state-administered training.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, just limiting it to training that would be relevant for CCW:

Texas CHL course.
Texas Pistol Academy Basic Pistol.
Collin County IDPA for 2 years + a few additional competitions.
Tac-Pro Shooting Center Primary Pistol.
Tac-Pro Shooting Center Intermediate Pistol.
Texas CHL renewal.
Tac-Pro Shooting Center Force-on-Force.
Up until this year, I also managed to work in once-a-month personal practice that involved movement, drawstroke, multiple targets (6" plates usually) and rapid fire.

Every single person I've seen who sought formal training with a handgun thought it was a great idea AFTER the training. Some of them were very skeptical beforehand; but were surprised to learn all the things they didn't know.

I've even seen guys with with significant training (military pistol team, IDPA, winner of several major IDPA competitions) and excellent pistol handling skills who were surprised by how much they were helped by formal training.

However, it is one of those things where you can just talk until you are blue in the face and people just won't listen until they finally take the training and the light comes on.

 

[Soybomb]

I know this is going to get me flamed by a lot of members, but while firearms are a right, carrying them is also a heavy responsibility. For this reason I support training and background checks as a requirement to carrying a firearm.

Is your position based on sound evidence though or just an emotional feeling? No matter if I agree or not about your idea of licensed rights, its easy to check if your position has merit. Your feelings essentially boil down to training and background check being a safety factor for concealed carry. We have plenty of states that don't either require a permit at all, or don't require any training. Do you have any numbers that show these people are in fact less safe with their concealed weapons than people in states that have the requirements you support? If not aren't you guilty of the same baseless "legislation by feeling" that the brady group is guilty of?

As they say at Frontsight, if you're ever involved in a shooting you'll only be half as good as your best day at the range under timed drills.

I won't deny that training is a good idea, I would encourage everyone to seek it out. I don't like the idea of mandated training. I would like to see "my side" start to use the same critical thinking skills that I am constantly hammering gun control supporters for not using. Show me the evidence and don't let your imagination make legislation. If state mandated training is as necessary and useful as you believe, it should be demonstrated very easily.

 

[vintage68]

"Every single person I've seen who sought formal training with a handgun thought it was a great idea AFTER the training. Some of them were very skeptical beforehand; but were surprised to learn all the things they didn't know.

I've even seen guys with with significant training (military pistol team, IDPA, winner of several major IDPA competitions) and excellent pistol handling skills who were surprised by how much they were helped by formal training.

However, it is one of those things where you can just talk until you are blue in the face and people just won't listen until they finally take the training and the light comes on."

My point exactly. I didn't know what I didn't know until after the training. The CCW classes still give me the shudders when I take them.

 

[rainbowbob]

There is NO qualification for a CPL in Washington State. I have trained myself to shoot decent groups on sillouettes at 7-15 yards with what I carry. I have also taken a 6-hour course entitled "Personal Protection and the Use of Force" that discussed the legal and emotional ramifications of defensive firearm use - including a F.A.T.S. simulator for shoot/no shoot secenarios.

Personally, I would have no problem with requirements to demonstrate legal knowledge and firearm proficiency for issuance of a license to CCW. I realize that many would disagree with that as an infringment issue, and I am sympathetic with that concept as well. So guess I'm on the fence there.

Here is a link to a thread/poll I started to see what - if any - shooting qualifications folks had in their states:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=358251

 

[Soybomb]

There is NO qualification for a CPL in Washington State.
*snip*
I would have no problem with requirements to demonstrate legal knowledge and firearm proficiency for issuance of a license to CCW.

Is there a particular problem you're trying to fix that would justify those things or is it just a "feel good" thing?

 

[romeo212000]

While the ease of the course here in Oklahoma worries me I take issue with requiring competency tests. Im with some on here as it scared the hell out of me to see who would be carrying a concealed pistol. Had some of the same experiences that some of you guys had. Women and men shooting with their eyes closed at 3 and seven yards with shots everywhere but in the middle of the target. I take issue with required competency tests though because if we allow the anti's that inch, they will take a mile and make it so difficult that the a great deal of qualified individuals may not be willing to go through the process, or may be unable to qulify when the requirement is to be able to shoot 2" groups at 30 yards.

 

[starshooter231]

I have taken only 1 "official" training course for my CPL. I do however go to the range every chance I get to practice what they taught me plus things I have learned from friends that are LEOs. I do plan on attending Frontsight as soon as I can get the wife to let me go to Nevada. I have certs for (2) 2 day classes. Just need the wife to okay me going.

 

[rainbowbob]

Is there a particular problem you're trying to fix that would justify those things or is it just a "feel good" thing?

Perhaps it is just a "feel good" thing. I might feel better knowing that CCWers have some proficiency with their firearm. And it might help in a potential court case if the jury knew that steps had been taken to reduce the potential for legal or operational misuse. But as I said...I'm kind of on the fence about this issue - which is a non-issue in this state.

 

[romeo212000]

While I agree it would help in court I have to think that is the responsibility of the individual, not the government to make sure the individual is adequately trained. I am not willing to give the government any more authority when it comes to firearms regulation.

 

[SEMO Shooter]

I agree that there should be SOME formal safety and marksmanship training required. However, if you give the die hard anti's the smallest chance they will try to make it ridiculously difficult to intentionally discourage people from getting carry permits

I felt a personal responsibility to myself and others to get PROPER PROFESSIONAL training above and beyond what is required in my home state of Missouri. I have nearly 70 hours of supervised professional training. I am competent. I am safe. I am prepared.

 

[Sato Ord]

The point of all this? Well, I'm curious: If you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, how much training have you had?

By whose standards?

I have a lot of training. Some of that training was tactical in the military sense, some has been in my work with various police departments including the military police, though I have never been a LEO outside the military.

I also train regularly, both with my weapon, and with airsoft and paint ball pistols. Most of my training these days is informal, just me and a few regulars getting together and doing it. However, I'd say that we train a lot more than the local PD in this area.

Therefore, if you are looking for certified courses I'd have to say I haven't been on a certification course in years, but I'd call myself, and those who practice with me, highly trained in both tactics and marksmanship.

 

[Nickotym]

I have had as much as I need, but not as much as I want!

My state requires no training, and I think that is the right way. What does that pesky Second Amendment say about infringements? Requiring training is definitely an infringement to my right to carry.

 

[Nickotym]

I witnessed one woman at my last ccw class who repeatedly closed her eyes when she fired and kept missing the target five yards away. She passed.

But do you think it is likely that she is regularly carrying?

Also, just because she couldn't shoot well then, is that reason enough to stop her from protecting herself from her homicidal stalker ex?

 

[JoseM]

Vintage68...I agree completely. I do live in NC though where open carry is legal and no permit is required for that...but I feel that the heavy responsibility for carrying concealed justifies BASIC BASIC training. And the CCW course is really just that, if you can't pass the marksmanship of the CCW course, you really don't need to be carrying (yes, if you can't hit the broad side of the barn, then you need to get your skills up before you take on that responsibility). And the CCW course gives a lot of legal information that many may not know. For instance, I didn't know that it was legal in NC to shoot someone while they are in the process of breaking into your home...but once inside, you have to give them the chance to leave (weird law, but learned it in my CCW).

 

[JoseM]

Also, just because she couldn't shoot well then, is that reason enough to stop her from protecting herself from her homicidal stalker ex?

Your missing the point...not shooting well and not being able to hit a target in the CCW course (which is hard to believe that people could fail this) are two totally different things. If you can't pass the shooting requirement for the North Carolina CCW, it is my opinion that you are GROSSLY INCOMPETENT in regards to a firearm. Does a grossly incompetent person have the right to defend himself/herself...yes, but not with a firearm in CCW fashion.

Again, this lady wouldn't need to be good enough to compete in tournaments, but just good enough to pass a BASIC skill level and the CCW firing requirement is insanely easy.

 

[Harvster]

I believe I can say with some certainty that at least 50% of us have above average training.

 

[esq_stu]

Enough to gt get a license is not enough to be considered well trained.

I think safety, basic principles of lawful self defense, and the ability to demonstrate that during a fairly short few hours one is not a tremendous hazard to bystanders while shooting is all that can be expected in a basic CCW course.

I also think learning the above topics is a life-long process that can't end with the basic course if one expects to ever carry a gun for self defense.

I take a 1/2 day tactical pistol course annually, shoot whenever I can find the time, and read sites like this one. I think it would be tough to expect more than that of the average Joe.

 

[Chupacabra]

I've been carrying since 2002, but didn't get any formal training until last year. in July I attended a 5-day handgun course at the Firearms Academy of Seattle. A month later I did their defensive shotgun course, and this past March the handgun retention seminar. I also try to hit the range at least twice a month.

I feel a lot more confident in my abilities and a lot more prepared because of the classes. I would recommend that everyone get some kind of formal instruction, even if it's just a basic safety and marksmanship class.

 

[Hanzerik]

Rifle; I have been active in shooting (Competitive and just plinking) for about 25 years. Formal training was provided by a Retired USMC Gunny, and since 1988, by the USAF. As far as pistol training; just what the USAF gave me during my annual qualification. I try to go shooting about 2-3 times a month, sometimes more when my schedule allows. These range trips include both rifles and pistols..

 

[scurtis_34471]

This year, I went to Front Sight and received four days of excellent training. When I got back, I learned that Massad Ayoob teaches LFI-1 (Lethal Force Institute) himself here in Florida every winter. I am definitely thinking that will be my 2009 training plan.

 

[phonesysphonesys]

Starshooter, I don't need permission to go to Nevada. So just send me those two certifcates and my buddy and I will go instead. We will give you a full report.
I got formal training at the USMC Acadamy of Small Arms and Tactics. Just recently took two courses at Profire to up date on the latest things.

Semper Fi

 

[starshooter231]

phonesysphonesys

Starshooter, I don't need permission to go to Nevada. So just send me those two certifcates and my buddy and I will go instead. We will give you a full report.

PM your info to me and when I dig it out of storage this weekend I will send you one.

 

[starshooter231]

phonesysphonesys

Or not we shall see.