Charged with Federal Crime: pay the fine, or fight it?

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fletchette brings up a very good point: There are a whole lot of crimes that you haven't admitted to! No honest man should need to fly a kite past the age of 8 or 9. You had no sporting reason to fly a kite; indeed, you had no permit to fly said kite.

You have doubtless broken local, county, state and Federal aviation laws governing aircraft. You have acted in total disregard to wildlife preservation programs designed to protect denizens of the forest from "unnatural" acts such as the shock, confusion and fear of seeing a flying kite.

Did you consult the EPA about the possibility that your kite flying could disrupt centuries old wind patterns? No, you did not.

You in a heap o'trouble, boy!
 
Guys,tell me if I missed something but advising him to go back on that road to video tape his ILLEGAL journey might just get him a bigger problem.
By doing so he would be traveling down an off limmits road knowingly
 
Sonny? I disagree a bit. If there is no signs and he is recording that fact, it is public land, and permission is assumed. I do think if he sees a sign he missed before that he should stop and pay the ticket.
 
Just a note on federal proceedings. Fed Judges nad Magistrates HATE this kind of thing. I got a parking ticket for parking at a soft ball game held on the Old Fort Snelling land near MSP (MN) airport. There were signs on the fence I parked in front of, but they were complete rusted and not legible even at winshield to front bumper distances. I appeared at the appointed place at the appointed time and was met with very se-r-i-ous people wondering with firm politeness just what I was doing in the Federal Court House. I presented the ticket and said I was here to figth a parking ticket. Much consternation ensued and then i was escorted to a magistrates chambers to whom I presented a picture of the sign,which included a copy of the days newspaper as a date stamp, the Magistrate gave a mutted laugh and said "yup, hard to read, case dismissed," then said tomorrow morning in the paper you will read why the people outside are so upset. He pushed a buzzer and a couple of big US Marshalls escorted me out of the building and the whole way out they said nothing.
turned out they had arrested Sara Jane Olson, one of the SLA fugitives that day and were awaiting her first appearance and were fearfull of some sort of response.
 
Back in the late 80s a freind and I were flying our kites in a natioanl forest.it was obviously a kite flying area as there was dead kite debris laying around.A white helicopter flew over and observed us flying out kites.We did not try to bring down the helicopter by flying our kites at it.:cool:
A few minutes later a ranger showed up and demanded we stop flying our kites.The ranger ran the serial #'s of our kites to see if they were stolen.All 15 of them.
We both got a ticket for flying our kites.I think they were $50.We both paid.Easiest way to deal with it.
I tend to agree with others in that you should fight because of the Lautenberg Amendment BS.
So far paying that $50 ticket hasn't caused me any problems.
I have C&R,CCL and routinely pass background checks to buy firearms.
 
Yes, there were no signs. But aren't there usually signs on the roads you're supposed to be on? The lack of signs should have tipped you off that you were someplace you shouldn't have been. I'd be very surprised if you weren't thinking that as you were driving down this sign-less road.
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As others have said, you need to get out more.

I've drive over 40 miles on one road system through federal forest, all old logging roads. NO signs whatsoever, when you come to a junction, you pull out a map and guesstimate where you are, and where you need to go.

This is in a Cavalier, the roads look just like dirt roads.

I can relate to the situtation, I'd fight it. Many times I've been on roads that I have no idea if I should be on or not. If it is important enough to keep people off, and it looks like a road breaking off a real road, they need to put up signs or gates.

Guys,tell me if I missed something but advising him to go back on that road to video tape his ILLEGAL journey might just get him a bigger problem.
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The citation was for a car down that road, he could just walk.
 
The lack of signs should have tipped you off that you were someplace you shouldn't have been.
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Hmmm . . . so if something isn't explicitly allowed, it's automatically assumed to be prohibited?

Funny . . . I thought in this country, everything was allowed unless it was explicitly prohibited.
 
Hmmm . . . so if something isn't explicitly allowed, it's automatically assumed to be prohibited?
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No. Like anything else, the determination is done on a case by case basis, based on the facts.

Funny . . . I thought in this country, everything was allowed unless it was explicitly prohibited.
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The prohibited conduct IS explicitly prohibited. I’m sure there’s a federal rules and regulations and whatnot book somewhere that has it. The issue is of publicizing the prohibition.

I once got a ticket for parking at a broken 2 hr meter for longer than 1 hr. Some time previous to that I had asked a traffic cop about the time limit when parked at a broken meter, and he said you can park up to the usual limit of the meter. Well, he was wrong. The regs say that a car can be parked at a broken meter for 1 hour max. I had to pay the ticket. There are no signs anywhere that state this, and it’s not in the drivers manual you get when you learning to drive. Yet, it’s the law and that’s that.
 
Hi all, thanks everyone for so much advice!


I haven't read through the thread yet, I have a lot to do today first.


I *did* go back up there yesterday and video everything and photograph everything too. There were still no signs.


I'll try to get back to the thread tonight & come up with a plan... the preliminary plan has already formed though: I plan to fight! :D
 
The prohibited conduct IS explicitly prohibited. I’m sure there’s a federal rules and regulations and whatnot book somewhere that has it. The issue is of publicizing the prohibition.
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Show me anywhere but in that Ranger's head that it was illegal to be on that road. States keep records of laws, you could look it up. I doubt there is a depository of roads that are illegal to drive on anywhere, that he would have thought to check up on before he went down it.

And just out of curiosity, was the Ranger in a truck? If so, why was he driving down the road?
 
Show me anywhere but in that Ranger's head that it was illegal to be on that road.
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I can't at the moment. I'm giving the Ranger the benefit of the doubt, and presuming that rangers can't write tickets for regulations that don't exist.
 
Fight it.

Don't give into extortion by government employees. Just like a lot of the illegitimate parking tickets written in cities, the ranger knows that it will be more of a PITA than its worth for you to fight it, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight it.

I would have told the ranger that if he had the ambition to come out and fine you, he should have had the ambition to fix or replace any missing signs. There are almost always some kind of markings or signs showing where a NG pipeline lies no matter how remote. I'm not sure what state you are in, but where I'm at, I've put on hundreds of miles driving down fire lanes and logging roads in public forests and rarely is there any kind of sign, let alone reference on a map as to what road I was on.
 
That's a mighty big presumption...
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Are you really telling that the majority of tickets that are written out are for violations that don't exist?? Are you say that these guys are simply spotting you, deciding that they want to give you a ticket, then writing you up for something they just made up?

I think not. It is a reasonable presumption.
 
I would fight it. Bring five photos of fields to court with you. Ask the park cop (and the judge) to pick out which one is the "pipeline"... :D
 
In MT National Forests, the roads not open to public travel are nearly all clearly posted. Of course, it is always possible for someone to tear down the sign. And you have to look closely, because some roads are restricted during certain seasons and open during others.

Some areas are blanket restricted to certain roads, but there are big signs along the main roads going into those areas. Then virtually every 2-track is also posted within that area too. A FS map will detail all these road restrictions - practically to the point that you can't use the map for any other useful purpose because of all the red ink.

And BTW, we have a petroleum pipeling running just off the east edge of our property, and it is marked pretty clearly.

When kites are outlawed, only outlaws will fly kites.
 
Did you get lippy with Ranger Rick? If not, where's the discretion on the part of this ranger? If he'd have found the poster chopping wood to throw on the bonfire he'd started so he had a nice place to lay back while drinking beer from the coolers stuffed into the back of is monster 4x4 with the woofers blasting, I could understand. But kite flying from the back of a Honda just wouldn't get ME riled up. This ranger must be from the Barney Fife Academy of Law Enforcement.
 
Just wondering if anyone can tell me if I am corect in assuming what I said in my previous post?
 
I am amused by all the "get a lawyer, fight it, stand up for the american dream, set up camp over the pipeline and stand there with an AK-47 and make a big molan labe sign to stand under" stuff. Call somebody and find out if this is a parking tickey or a serious misdomeaner or something in between. I'd bet 99 to 1 it is a parking ticket level offence. Pay it and move on...it isn't worth the aggrevation.

And yes Sonny..you are correct. Don't feel bad nobody responded...most people on forums only read the first post and whatever they wrote in a thread.
 
National Forest? Should have been a USFS Ranger. also, the road should have had a gate or "tank-trap" at the end to prevent vehicle use. Common sense should prevail but...
later!
 
Guys,tell me if I missed something but advising him to go back on that road to video tape his ILLEGAL journey might just get him a bigger problem.
By doing so he would be traveling down an off limmits road knowingly
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Yes, but not if you get permission, which should be given.
 
Pay it and move on...it isn't worth the aggrevation.
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Actually, THAT I don't agree with.

Yes, I think io333 should pay it, but because I suspect he was negligent. You should always fight any fine you get if you truly believe you are in the right.
 
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