Chicago considering calling in National Gaurd

[Big Boy]

Chicago lawmakers are considering calling in the National Guard after having 113 homicide victims already this year. ...You know they could just let their citizens be armed and protect themselves....

This is where gun control takes you. Closer and closer to military/police state/martial law.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

CHICAGO — Two lawmakers who believe violence has become so rampant in Chicago that the Illinois National Guard must be called in to help made a public plea to Gov. Pat Quinn on Sunday to deploy troops.

A recent surge in violent crime, including a night last week that saw seven people killed and 18 wounded _ mostly by gunfire _ prompted the request from Chicago Democratic Reps. John Fritchey and LaShawn Ford. They were joined by Willie Williams, whose son was shot and killed in 2006.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

This is what happens when the U.S.Constituion and Bill of Rights are discarded."The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Navy, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States."

I'm sure Chicago already has a way to get around it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

An average of one homicide per day in a city of 3 million warrants a state of emergency and enactment of marshall law?

NG troops aren't a police force.

 

[ArmedBear]

An average of one homicide per day in a city of 3 million

Yeah, Sao Paolo would love to have such a low rate, for example...

Another question: of those killed, who needed killing? If I visit Chicago, are they going to shoot me for my cell phone, or are the gangbangers just helping to rid the city of each other?

Last time I was in Chicago, it was quite safe -- where I was, anyway...

 

[squarles67]

but.....but.....but.....they can't have a gun crime problem......they have very strict gun control laws........

 

[cleardiddion]

Apparantly they never heard of Posse Comitatus.
/facepalm

 

[Big Boy]

I was in Chicago just last year and had no issues, riding the train and being out very late at night. I will say this though, when it got later I took cabs. I wasn't familiar with what were and weren't safe areas up there.

There is obviously crime areas considering these statistics though. I can understand the city not having enough of a budget to effectively handle this with the police. However in my mind I don't believe Chicago's police force to be in quite that bad of shape. Pulling in the state troopers is a much more valid answer than the National Guard.

What would make even more sense is just letting it's citizens protect themselves...but sadly we know their legislation thinks that would cause vigilantism...just like it does in the rest of the nation...:banghead:

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Different studies of homicide turn up a lot of parameters about murder. Off the top of my head:

Marvin Wolfgang (who declared "I hate guns") after studying 588 homicides also stated few homicides due to shooting could be avoided if a firearm were not present (due to the motivation, opportunity, circumstances of most murders being mutal combat between people who had had violent clashes before the homicide).

A different study found most murders between 10pm and 2am, Fri or Sat night, one or both intoxicated, starting over a lovers' quarrel, gambling debt, bad dope deal.

Victims and perps of murder tend to have higher rates of auto accodents, DUI, prior arrest, etc., than non-murderers/murder victims.

Now, given the parameters of most murder, National Guard on the street corners does not sound like an effective intervention. About as useless as gun control. Sounds like someone clueless is grasping at straws.

 

[Yo Mama]

I feel for those in IL.

 

[WestEnd65]

So one homicide a day warrents calling in the national guard? If so, then the Texas border needs a regiment or so of Special Forces.

 

[Kingcreek]

Hizzoner Chicago Mayor Daley has just now said NO National Guard, but stressed the need for MORE GUN CONTROL...

 

[stonecutter2]

Wait, wait, wait...they have strict gun control laws, so how could more guns be answer? I mean, yeah, they're in the military's hands, but still...I thought the answer to gun violence was restricting gun ownership? You mean that DOESN'T work?

If ever there was a time for Chicago to wake up, it's now. Economic conditions have deteriorated. Gun laws have done nothing to fix crime rates. If ever there was a great chance to implement concealed carry by law-abiding citizens, and analyze it's effectiveness in deterring crime, this is it!

 

[stonecutter2]

Hizzoner Chicago Mayor Daley has just now said NO National Guard, but stressed the need for MORE GUN CONTROL...

I live in Illinois. Aside from busting down our doors at night and taking all of our guns away, I fail to see how this state could possibly implement more gun control. Now, given, we have the Illinois Firearms Owner Identification Card (FOID), which we are required to pay $$$ to the Illinois State Policy, and have to have in order to legally own weapons...so it would be easy for Illinois to start busting down doors and taking guns.

We are the last holdout in the entire country to have no legal means of carry. As far as I'm concerned as an Illinois voter (mid-state, mind you, not Chicago area anymore), this is an absolute embarrassment, and it's time we look at solutions that work, not continuing a failed policy of gun laws that have led to skyrocketing crime rates.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Politicians ask for stupid stuff all the time, nothing new here. Chicago politicians are pretty dumb, I was watching a video of an assembly and they are on about a 6th grade level at best.


Detroit is even worse, we should consider giving it to Canada. I'm pretty sure the people who run Detroit have the IQ of a potato.

 

[mp510]

Apparantly they never heard of Posse Comitatus.

The NG is a state and federal military force. When they are under state orders (ie. most Hurricanes, this situation, LA Riots, etc....) , they are a state force. When they are on fedral orders (ie. Iraq), they are a federal force. Posse Comitatus only applies against the use of federal soldiers- which would not cover the NG unless they were on federal orders at the time.

For emergancies like this, sending in the NG to augment local police is probably a good idea. Whether or not Chicago respects the RKBA has nothing to do with this. There is plenty of places where they do respect peoples' rights to own and carry weapons where crime surges require local LE to multiplied by state LE. With the ISP facing huge cuts right now, using the Guard is a good idea.

 

[divemedic]

Posse Comitatus does not apply if the National Guard of Illinois is deployed within Illinois by the Governor of Illinois to enforce Illinois Law. Posse Comitatus only applies to Federal Troops, or Troops under Federal Control.

ETA: The NG regularly is used this way. It is used in Florida for hurricanes and brush fires, it was used in New Orleans after Katrina, it was used in PA during this past winter's blizzards.

 

[Lakeshore]

You wonder if they'll allow the National Guard to carry bullets for their guns.

You also wonder why the Illinois electorate allows this foolishness to go on. Chicago is a big burg for sure but it's not the entire state. Why the voters don't stand up and demand that the decision makers hew to the will of the people is puzzling.

 

[Kingcreek]

Hey, I'm a "downstate" Illinois resident myself. I didn't agree with Daley's comments, I just reported them.
BTW, unless you've been living in a cave, a fella named Otis McDonald pretty much figured out that Chicago style gun control wasn't working in his Chicago neighborhood and has asked the Supreme Court to consider his case. Don't write Illinois off yet.
yeah, Chicago politicians are the scourge of Illinois but we know how to handle them... we send them to Washington.

 

[akodo]

the Illinois National Guard must be called in to help made a public plea

wth? Obviously that is very poor writing, and not at all what the writer intended to say.

 

[rha600]

[antigun people]But if all guns were banned then there wouldn't be any guns for the criminals to kill with.[/antigun people]

haha. you KNOW it's coming...

 

[Broken11b]

More gun control... yeah. Because that old system of easily available legal firearms for taxpayers was just a disaster? Because it's so easy to get one legally?

 

[One-Time]

Posse Comitatus aside, if they cant afford the pay their State Police to do it, how are they gonna afford to pay their National Guard to deploy?

 

[MisterMike]

This is only a couple of politicians grandstanding for the TV cameras. It won't happen

BTW, is this in any way "gun-related"?

 

[One-Time]

^ absolutely it is! Even if it wasnt are you bucking for your Junior G-Man Mod badge or something?

 

[rm23]

The NG is a state and federal military force. When they are under state orders (ie. most Hurricanes, this situation, LA Riots, etc....) , they are a state force. When they are on fedral orders (ie. Iraq), they are a federal force. Posse Comitatus only applies against the use of federal soldiers- which would not cover the NG unless they were on federal orders at the time.

For emergancies like this, sending in the NG to augment local police is probably a good idea. Whether or not Chicago respects the RKBA has nothing to do with this. There is plenty of places where they do respect peoples' rights to own and carry weapons where crime surges require local LE to multiplied by state LE. With the ISP facing huge cuts right now, using the Guard is a good idea.

Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about (and divemedic). Maybe one 15 or so who are attacking this idea to stop the murders can come up with another idea.