Concealed Carry And Drawing Your Gun In Time Of Need?

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PawDaddy

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Okay, I know that I have had alot of posts lately asking questions about this gun or that gun. So, you may be tired of seeing a post by me. It seems I change my mind as much as I change clothes.

But, after reading a post about how quickly a BG can cover distance between him and you it started me thinking. The writer stated that a BG could be on you before you could get your gun unholstered. Tests were done to prove this.

I usually carry my 3" Taurus 85 in an IWB holster under a Tshirt or other untucked shirt. If a bad situation comes about, I'm not sure that just having the gun on me is enough. I do think lots of times about such situations and what I would do, but if someone is set to do you harm, you will have very little time to react. I do not go to places where the risk is that high, but bad things happen in good places sometimes. I do not drink, do drugs, go to bars, stop at convenient stores late at night, and very rarely go into bad areas of town. (I do visit and assist church members, and some of them live in places that are not as safe as they should be.) With all the things that I do to avoid danger, sometimes it will come anyway.

I have a couple of Davis derringers and I know that they are not much gun, but I can have them in my hand inside my pocket at any time. So, I was thinking about a small .38 or .357 such as the Taurus CIA, S&W 442/642, or Charter 2000 enclosed hammer guns. With a small revolver such as this, one could use pocket carry and have the gun in their hand when the need be. The most at risk area that I can think of, for me, is coming out of Wal-Mart or the grocery store and into the parking lot. With one of the above mentioned revolvers, I could get it out quicker than any gun in a holster.

Does all of this make sense? Do any of you carry such a gun in a pocket for the same reasons?
 
I understand your concern but I think it might be a little over thought out. Are you going to keep you hand on the weapon in your pocket 100% of the time? I doubt it. It is much more about keeping your senses alert than anything else.
 
Billy,

I agree about being alert, and one should be aware of his/her surroundings. But, at the same time, if you are in an area such as a parking lot and you see someone who looks suspicious, you can have your gun in hand while still concealed, just in case.
 
Sounds like you are making suppositions. Test your claims. Unload your firearms and have a friend time your draws with each. Now you got a little pressure going, huh? Fumble a few times, scratch that carry mode... Nothing like empirical testing. I ditched two different holsters and carry methods before I got what I wanted, based on the above.

Now you figured out what you are fastest/most consistent with, PRACTICE that draw, HUNDREDS OF TIMES. If you only carry one way, and practice consistently, your draw stroke will happen very smoothly and quickly. I think one way well beats multiple ways mediocre.....
 
The chances of a psycho just running straight at you and attacking you are reasonably small...I would hope anyway, not sure where you live...If you happen to live in Zimbabwe or Bahgdad...welll...

I feel that I can see a bad thing building and get the gun and my hand together before I'm stuck for time. If somebody has the "drop" on me, I can feign reaching for my wallet, back off, duck behind cover, shove, hit etc to buy time.

It also depends on what I'm doing, where I'm going. I live a bit out in the country, around town, where I live, I feel comfortable with a Ruger SP-101 in my waistband with an extra speedloader in my off side pocket. If however, the wife and I are going to Dallas or other major city on a Fri-Sat night, I carry a P-7 in a real holster and an extra mag in a mag carrier. That entails a real gunbelt and something to cover it with, but also allows a 1.3 sec. draw and shoot...I feel pretty confident that with a sidestep, draw and shoot, I can beat a drawn gun or knife. I agree with others, situational awareness and tactics are critical.
 
Good thinking

I have run over many different situations in my mind. I am sure that it could be said that I am "over analyzing", but I would much rather over think things then be completely surprised by a situation. I think Sgt127 is correct there are not too many situations I can think of where someone is going to just run up and clock me in the head. I think most situations will entail some moderate warning. I am usually very alert to my surroundings, so hopefully I will have some warning.

Most situations that I can think of involve getting mugged, or a store that I am in getting robbed. Also I see carjackings as something to be concerned about. I have developed plans for all such situations because these are scenarios I would expect more then a crazed man just coming up to me and attacking me.

Many people think that the most important thing is having your hardware ready for potential situations. I am most concerned about how I will react mentally. I prepare for the mental game by doing mind drills and also training for my response at the range.
 
Understand that criminals do not attack you when they are weak and you are strong. If you see them, they'll most likely not chance it. If they manage to catch you unawares, that is when they want to come at you.

It is very easy to say "I'll see them coming!" But is it always adviseable to prepare for the best case scenario or the worst?
 
I do think that it is very unlikely that someone will just come charging after you, but in any situation where the possibility of a confrontation is there, wouldn't it be good to have your gun in hand?

Having the gun in a pocket is the only way I know of being able to have it in your hand while still concealed. Are there other ways?
 
PAWDADDY, in addition to my several other firearms, I have a Taurus Model 651 Protector in .357Magnum. It is basically a CIA, same size & etc, except it has a shrouded hammer which has the advantage of being snag free and can be used either S/A or D/A. Contrary to popular belief the CIA and the Protector are not small guns and are relatively heavy. IMHO too heavy and large for front pocket carry. And they only pack 5 rounds.
 
If you are carrying IWB and you're starting to worry, just put your hand on your piece under your shirt. If you do it gently and don't act like you are five kinds of freaking, nobody will ever notice. When you do this, it is a good idea to make sure your shirt is still over your hand, of course. Then if there is no threat, you just act like you were adjusting your belt or something. Unless someone is scrutinizing you all to pieces, nobody will notice.

If someone is about to attack you and they see you reach under your shirt, realize that you've become VERY armed, they may very well back down and go about their merry way.

I have done this twice that I know of, and both times it was a false alarm. I carry just behind my hip, so it was more like I was just "reachin' for a scratch" or something like that. Nobody looked at me twice.

The bottom line is that yes, in a time of need, in hand beats all other places a gun could be. But since it is generally frowned upon to go around with a pistol in your hand, one must make compromises.
 
good posts, all.

I'm an engineer so I like to work statistics to get more efficiency. How about this?

Perhaps some wise person on THR can point to the appropriate stats. But I put to you that we can gain efficiency by training for the top ranking most-likely-to-happen scenarios. Rather than spending a lot of resources and time on the incredibly rare events.

So for self-defence and assuming alert-state-of-mind, what are the top ranking scenarios? Jump-out-of-the-shadow mugging? Predator-on-my-trail attack? Witnessing a mugging in progress?

I can see how fast and smooth drawing helps most of the time. I just dont see how useful is the surprise-attack assumption. This kind of assumption combines closed-quarters and surprise and suggests hand to hand response before we can draw.

But for the deterrant effect, I totally see the effectiveness of putting our hand on weapon, short of drawing.
 
The 21 second rule... the Tueller drill.... I've seen this by several different names. It is an accurate description of the amount of time it takes an attacker to charge you. However, the numbers rely on the fact that you are caught flat footed and stand there while the attacker mows you down.

Don't just stand there MOVE!

Get off his line of attack and force him to react to you. An instructor I train with about once a month always incorporates these moving and shooting drills into our training. His purpose is to teach us to overcome the natural human instinct to stand still and upright while manipulating an object. In this case a firearm.

I don't think anyone can possibly be prepared for everything. Mr. Murphy (of Murphy's Law fame) has too many years more training than any of us. What we can do is become proficient at a few basic skills that we can adapt to various situations.
 
I saw some firearms instructors messing with this, the catch being, of course, that the guy knew it was coming, just not exactly when. Gun guy drew and got two shots before knife guy got to him.

So what does this mean? If you spot someone 21 feet away, and know he's going to charge you with a knife, before he charges you with the knife, you can probably shoot him a couple of times if your draw is GOOD.

For the rest of us, however... ;)

It is good advice that if caught flat footed you should be prepared to manuver OR draw and fire, OR manuver AND draw AND fire. Probably should train for all of those eventualities, too. :)
 
Having been robbed at gunpoint, I can tell you that in my instance, had I been armed he could have easily died before he could harm me.

He just walked up to my friend and I and casualy drew his pistol from the 7 o' clock position (he was a lefty) ... he racked the slide on the POS .25 he used (in somewhat flamboyant gangsta style :rolleyes: ) then pointed the gun at us ... sort of sideways, sort of way up in the air pointing down.

Had I been armed the way I tend to be now, I'd have enough time to draw and unload half the magazine into his chest by the time he had his weapon charged and in place (although I would probably just point it at him and yell for him to drop his weapon and get on the ground, to which he would probably just run away).


but thats just one of a million possibilities
 
PawDaddy, you've got the right idea. But, you need to carry those guns in the front pocket of a jacket of some sort. In your pants pocket (unless your waring very baggy pants) you can't point them. When I lived up north I carried this way all the time. Down in So. Florida its too hot for jackets. When I hear a funny noise outside my house - I put the revolver in an old sock and just walk outside with my hand on the "sock-gun".

About three years ago I confronted a man and boy with a ladder climbing up to second story of my condo (at night) - I had the "sock-gun" causually pointed at them the whole time. It turns out they moved in that day, while I was at work and they were having lock/key trouble. They never knew I had a gun pointing at them.

Elliot
 
This is a very, very interesting thread! It opens up a can of worms that is very familiar to me

If you'll indulge me for a moment... Some of you have followed the various bear and big cat attack threads on the forum. My own interest originates in the fact that I was mauled a few years ago. When it happened, I thought I was fully prepared for bears because I THOUGHT I knew how bear attacks developed. But, I didn't have a clue and got mauled because of what I THOUGHT I knew.
After the event, I began to research the subject (I'm writing a book) and learned that what happened to me was (more or less) a typical bear attack. I had been "prepared" for an entirely different scenario that rarely happens. Lesson learned - don't draw conclusions from anecdotal information!

Now, I'm reading this and getting that same uneasy feeling. I suspect that I don't really know how the typical violent confrontation with a stranger begins... And, like with bears, I suspect that nobody out there has ever tried to quantify how these scenario's develop. And, like with the bears, I may be "prepared" for an incident that rarely occurs and unrepared for the typical scenario.

It would very interesting to see a breakdown of how these incidents develop and play out. Do they most commonly begin with a gun at your head or is there a "feeling out" period - "Hey you, gimme a smoke!"... Where do most muggings occur - in the street, in the parking lot, in your car?

Think about it... if (in your locale) carjackings are more common than street muggings, you'd better not be sitting on your gun in an IWB holster when it goes down. If the typical attack begins when somebody physically grabs you from behind, then you might not want to carry in a shoulder holster that is instantly detected by feel.

I'm not aware of any study that lays things out in an objective fashion. This would be valuable information.

Keith
 
Keith: I too would be interested in a study. I have heard MANY anecdotal tales though.

Most guys that I've spoken to have been robbed by someone simply displaying a firearm. Not pointing it, nothing, just lifting back a jacket, showing the butt of the gun. These were fairly classic "give me your money" deals.

I don't know about the outright assaults. What I don't know could fill volumes.
 
Yeah, I suspect I don't know jack, either!

And I suspect none of the self-defense trainers base their tactics on how it really goes down, either.

I would bet that the common scenario is different for women vs men (they are likely looking for more than money from women), and different in bad neighborhoods vs tourist areas, parking lots vs street corners, etc.

Such a study would "make" a researcher, but I'm unaware of anyone who has ever looked into it.

Keith
 
I'm with the MOVE first, then draw your weapon concept.

Run like hell, dip, dodge, create space, create uncertainty, cackle like a witch if you think it will throw them off.

Then present your weapon and be ready.

This isnt the movies, there are no RULES except protecting yourself from serious bodily harm and/or death.
 
My plan has always been to dive to the ground and begin rolling and spraying lead from a pistol in each hand, Mel Gibson style. And then when I've killed them, jump up and say something witty to any pretty girls who are standing near by.
But that would just be silly if it was raining and I got all muddy, or if it happened in one of those parking lots full of sharp gravel, or... if there was a pile of dog poo that I hadn't noticed!

Keith
 
"The 21 second rule... the Tueller drill.... I've seen this by several different names. It is an accurate description of the amount of time it takes an attacker to charge you. However, the numbers rely on the fact that you are caught flat footed and stand there while the attacker mows you down."

he must be pretty far or awfully fat to take 21 seconds to charge you.....;)
I think you mean the 21 foot rule where someone could be on you before you get off a shot...
 
After going back and reading my original post and all the replies, it seems that lots of folks have in there minds how something would play out. And that may be totally reverse or foreign to what might really happen in a confrontation.

We can familiarize ourselves with our guns, carry modes, drawing procedures, etc. But when it comes down to being attacked, fortunately most of us will never have any experience at it.

My son is about to go off to college and even though he is 20 and a pretty big guy, I worry about him. I have told him some things that I hope will help him to be safe:

Always have plenty of gas in his vehicle.

Have everything that you need in your dorm room so that you will not have to go out at night.

If you do have to go out, do not go out alone if at all possible.

Never pick up a hitch-hiker. If someone looks like they need help, call the police on cell phone.

Keep doors locked in vehicle.

If someone bumps your vehicle at a stop sign or red light, drive to a well lit populated place before getting out of vehicle.

Avoid bad parts of town. Even if you have to go out of your way.

There are many other things that I will tell him and reinforce these things so that he will make good decisions and stay safe.

I think that using your head and staying alert is as much a part of self-defence as having a gun. I think that the gun should be that last resort, but have it within easy access in case it comes down to that.

My son will be 21 in March. I hope that things go well for him between now and then. I also know that having a gun will not guarantee your safety, but I will feel better knowing that he will be armed when he is away from home. I also know that most schools don't allow guns on campus and that is something we will have to deal with. I know a few guys that have been students there that carry and hunt. I don't know where they store their guns, but we will find all of this out.
 
I am sure I am not the only one that feels that situational awarness at all times, will keep you safe from most 'sneak attacks'. Practice with your carry gun, and wear decent leather that will allow access. 'Dress for success', not necessarily for comfort.
 
Most attackers are not total idiots. The attack is a planned ambush. The attack would most likely come from behind or from your blindside. Unfortunately most people realistically train for a TV senario (frontal attack). The attacker who comes at you from behind and slightly to the side has negated your draw and presentation. Put yourself in the attackers position and try to visual what you can do. Remember he has his weapon ready and you are already trying to play catchup.
 
Trust your instincts. If a situation doesn't feel right, run like Hell. If you can't clear the area, pull your weapon and be prepared to use it.
 
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