Constitutional Carry Is It A Good Idea?

[WrongHanded]

Tomato tomato. Still not seeing any issues. The fears of blood running in the streets and all these bad shootings happening.... just isnt happening.

I cant think of a single "bad shoot" Ive been apart of. There have been a couple that were getting into the grey areas but the victim/shooter wasnt prosecuted. The shooter was acting in accordance with the law, but it isnt a shoot you'd want to use as the poster child. And both of those the victim had a CCW permit.

The only "bad shoots" that I have been apart of have involved some sort of criminal activity. Hell, even much of the shootings involving criminals, the shooter had a solid claim of self defense.

So you haven't seen any issues. That's great.

If (outside of their home or business) a person shoots another person with a gun they can legally own and carry, but they have no CCP, would it have happened in the absence of a Constitutional Carry law?

That's a hard question to answer, because it depends on some specifics. But it's kind of the crux of the issue. Do you see what I mean?

 

[Electricmo]

So in order to carry a gun to protect yourself you need to take a class?What if I’m poor and can barely pay for the gun let alone a class. Will the taxpayers provide money to me to attend the class? You’re discriminating against me if you require me to take a class I can’t afford. Do the criminals that roam the streets get more jail time because they are carrying a gun without taking the class?
Now what about having to take a responsibility class before legally drinking alcohol? After all alcohol can severely alter one’s senses making them inherently more dangerous if drunk. We see drunken violence all the time not to mention the loss of life in vehicle accidents caused by alcohol. I guess the best answer is to outlaw all guns and alcohol. There problem solved!

 

[Kleanbore]

So in order to carry a gun to protect yourself you need to take a class.

From where did you conclude that? It is not true in Constitutional Carry jurisdictions.

 

[Electricmo]

From where did you conclude that? It is not true in Constitutional Carry jurisdictions.

I was asking a question in reference to previous posts. I corrected the above statement. I personally don’t agree with taking classes to exercise a right to self defense.

 

[WrongHanded]

So in order to carry a gun to protect yourself you need to take a class?What if I’m poor and can barely pay for the gun let alone a class.

Are you that poor though? Would you like me to take a look at your finances and spending habits and see where you could scrape together a couple hundred dollars? Cut out the fast food, tobacco or alcohol; downgrade that data plan; cut back on the non-essential spending for a few months.

It's a strawman argument. Very few people are so poor the can't find some money to protect themselves. If they couldn't, how'd they get the gun, ammo, and holster? How can they afford to practice with that gun? They must ride the bus because they don't have a car due to the cost of insurance registration, gasoline, and maintenance. And probably shop at Goodwill, and get all their meals from the local food bank or with food stamps.

But let's say a person really is that poor. Perhaps they should contact their local branch of a RKBA group, and see if they can get some assistance towards their goal to legally carry. Seems like the firearms community would be willing to assist such a person.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Are you that poor though? Would you like me to take a look at your finances and spending habits and see where you could scrape together a couple hundred dollars? Cut out the fast food, tobacco or alcohol; downgrade that data plan; cut back on the non-essential spending for a few months.

It's a strawman argument. Very few people are so poor the can't find some money to protect themselves. If they couldn't, how'd they get the gun, ammo, and holster? How can they afford to practice with that gun? They must ride the bus because they don't have a car due to the cost of insurance registration, gasoline, and maintenance. And probably shop at Goodwill, and get all their meals from the local food bank or with food stamps.

But let's say a person really is that poor. Perhaps they should contact their local branch of a RKBA group, and see if they can get some assistance towards their goal to legally carry. Seems like the firearms community would be willing to assist such a person.

When I was young and just began living in my own, I was dirt poor. Like, nothing but peanut butter and ramen noodles for months, driving an old beater I cobbled together myself. Busting my butt and living on a prayer. Yes, people are that poor. At least while in transition

 

[WrongHanded]

When I was young and just began living in my own, I was dirt poor. Like, nothing but peanut butter and ramen noodles for months, driving an old beater I cobbled together myself. Busting my butt and living on a prayer. Yes, people are that poor. At least while in transition

Sure, some are. It's still a strawman argument though, because the vast majority of people are not that poor.

And if the education, testing, background investigation and licensing were all free, most people still probably wouldn't jump through the hoops to be able to carry.

 

[Electricmo]

Sure, some are. It's still a strawman argument though, because the vast majority of people are not that poor.

And if the education, testing, background investigation and licensing were all free, most people still probably wouldn't jump through the hoops to be able to carry.

So I’m guessing you believe if I haven’t taken a safety course of some sort than no carrying a gun for me.

 

[C-grunt]

I'm not poor. My wife and I make good money and have mage good financial decisions after a few bad years in our early 20s. I could easily afford the classes. I just don't like the requirement of a law abiding citizen needing one. That's how states like NY and CA were able to defacto ban CCW. You could technically get one but the classes were so hard to actually sign up for and attend that it made getting one impossible unless you were connected.

Plus, I work in an area where there definitely are people poor enough that a 200 dollar class, plus time off work, transportation, ammo, etc.. would be a very big burden. Not everyone buys their gun new at the store.

 

[WrongHanded]

So I’m guessing you believe if I haven’t taken a safety course of some sort than no carrying a gun for me.

No, I don't believe that. I think plenty of people educate themselves on firearms safety and the applicable laws regarding use of deadly force. The fact that you're on this site suggests to me that you probably know more than the average gun owner, if only because you have the interest to be here.

What I believe is that if a person goes through a mandatory safety class, a practical and a written test (like I did for both my CCP and Hunter Safety Course), it ensures they are not ignorant of the dangers or the laws. In other words, they cannot claim they "didn't know". And they're fully aware of the responsibility they have when they carry a deadly weapon.

 

[Electricmo]

No, I don't believe that.

What I believe is that if a person goes through a mandatory safety class, a practical and a written test (like I did for both my CCP and Hunter Safety Course), it ensures they are not ignorant of the dangers or the laws. In other words, they cannot claim they "didn't know". And they're fully aware of the responsibility they have when they carry a deadly weapon.

So you do believe I have to go through a mandatory safety course.

 

[WrongHanded]

So you do believe I have to go through a mandatory safety course.

I believe it would beneficial to public safety if everyone who wanted to carry a concealed firearm in public did go through one. I didn't learn much of anything in either of mine because I had already learned most of it from other sources. But you don't know what you don't know, as the saying goes.

 

[Old Dog]

I believe it would beneficial to public safety if everyone who wanted to carry a concealed firearm in public did go through one.

And I believe that it would be beneficial to public safety if all those who drive motor vehicles on public roadways went through a mandatory safety course. We'd surely see far less collisions, injuries and fatalities...

Oh wait, never mind...

 

[WisBorn]

In the state of Wisconsin hunter safety is accepted for CWP. At a cost of $24.50 for the class and $10 for the permit. The CWP permit cost $50.

Now I don't want to see education as being a financial burden. We have to much of that in our country.
I know that sportsmen clubs help kids with hunter safety fees. When working with kids in 4H we helped kids with costs.
To be a Shooting Sports Leader in 4H I paid for my on training and expenses.

I know that hunter safety reduces accidents. First Aid and CPR saves lives. And firearm training helps make people safer.

 

[WisBorn]

And I believe that it would be beneficial to public safety if all those who drive motor vehicles on public roadways went through a mandatory safety course. We'd surely see far less collisions, injuries and fatalities...

Oh wait, never mind...

Never mind? The Smith System is great for teaching drivers!

 

[WrongHanded]

And I believe that it would be beneficial to public safety if all those who drive motor vehicles on public roadways went through a mandatory safety course. We'd surely see far less collisions, injuries and fatalities...

Oh wait, never mind...

How many more do you think we'd see if such testing wasn't required to drive? People not bothering to learn who has right of way and who must yield, just driving however they see fit to get where they're going. I'm sure it'd be much worse without driver's Ed.

 

[WisBorn]

How many more do you think we'd see if such testing wasn't required to drive? People not bothering to learn who has right of way and who must yield, just driving however they see fit to get where they're going. I'm sure it'd be much worse without driver's Ed.

When I moved from WI to IL I was required to pass a written test for my drivers license.

Picked up a free book and studied. Not that hard. But without studying I might have failed. REFRESHING IS NOT BAD!

When I renewed my CWP for Utah. Online refresher training, free but $50 for the permit.

 

[Old Dog]

Guys, I think you missed my point.

 

[Electricmo]

Wisbang and Birdy are regulation guys. The more rules the better. My bet they work for the government in some shape or form. They like being in control. Freedoms drive em nuts. They want tests instead of real life experiences. They want to know why you feel the need to carry. If you don’t train and have a good enough reason then no carrying for you. Most likely both live in liberal states or cities. But I have been proven wrong numerous times.

 

[WrongHanded]

Guys, I think you missed my point.

Which was what exactly? That bad things happen anyway? Yes, they do. It's unavoidable. But if your point was something else, please do explain.

 

[WrongHanded]

Wisbang and Birdy are regulation guys. The more rules the better. My bet they work for the government in some shape or form. They like being in control. Freedoms drive em nuts. They want tests instead of real life experiences. They want to know why you feel the need to carry. If you don’t train and have a good enough reason then no carrying for you. Most likely both live in liberal states or cities. But I have been proven wrong numerous times.

And now you're name calling because you can't get what you want. Not quite the height of maturity. And apparently you've worked up a narrative for each of us, about what we do for a living, where we live, and our ideologies. Is this an attempt to prove that you are an even tempered and responsible adult?

 

[Electricmo]

I apologize. No coffee in the system yet. Yes I stereotyped. Wrong of me. I’ll be leaving this thread now. I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[WrongHanded]

I apologize. No coffee in the system yet. Yes I stereotyped. Wrong of me. I’ll be leaving this thread now. I guess we agree to disagree.

Apology accepted.

For what it's worth, whilst I would prefer an affordable permitting system with full State reciprocity, Constitutional Carry has certainly brought handgun carry more into the mainstream. That definitely has some major benefits for gun rights in general, if only because more people have skin in the game.

 

[WisBorn]

Apology accepted.

For what it's worth, whilst I would prefer an affordable permitting system with full State reciprocity, Constitutional Carry has certainly brought handgun carry more into the mainstream. That definitely has some major benefits for gun rights in general, if only because more people have skin in the game.

This!!!!

I'm just tired of turning on the news and seeing that a six year old took a gun to school and shot his teacher. Or a three year old shot his mother looking for candy in her handbag.

I want to see everyone that can legally own a firearm have one, if they desire. They just should understand the responsibility that comes with that freedom!

 

[wayneinFL]

This!!!!

I'm just tired of turning on the news and seeing that a six year old took a gun to school and shot his teacher. Or a three year old shot his mother looking for candy in her handbag.

I want to see everyone that can legally own a firearm have one, if they desire. They just should understand the responsibility that comes with that freedom!

Do you really need a class and a license to tell you that you shouldn't let a 3 year old have access to a firearm?


Everybody knows that.

If mom's that stupid, the kid's probably doomed to begin with.