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Is Constitutional Carry a good idea?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by monotonous_iterancy, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Well-Known Member

    Now that concealed carry permits are a reality in every state, the next logical step would be to push for constitutional carry. I'm in favor of this. However, I have one reservation...

    What about the fact that people would no longer be required to take a class on justifiable use of force?

    I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I, and many of us dislike the idea of mandatory training or classes. It can be used as a run-around towards gun ownership.

    On the other hand, there might be plenty of people who don't understand what true self-defense is. The difference between defending their lives, as opposed to defending their feelings.

    Call me a nanny-state paternalist, but what about questions such as when it is appropriate to draw a weapon?

    To most of us, we spend time immersed in a culture that stresses the side of caution on these things. We consider them to be common sense.

    But common sense isn't so common, is it? I'm sure we all have stories of seeing unsafe gun handling at ranges and the like.

    Would you trust some of the people at public ranges to have a CCW, and only a vague notion of the legal aspects of it?
  2. Ks5shooter

    Ks5shooter Well-Known Member

    Every state does not have concealed carry.The fascist state of NJ will not issue a carry permit.
  3. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Well-Known Member

    Fair enough. Most states have concealed carry.
  4. Schwing

    Schwing Well-Known Member

    I am not arguing for or against but I find it kind of amusing that we have come full circle on this. It used to be that it was considered cowardly and inappropriate to hide a gun instead of openly carrying it. These days, carrying openly seems to invite all of the trouble whether it is legal in your state or not.
  5. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Well-Known Member

    Arizona is the latest state to adopt it. I haven't seen or heard of any, for example, shootouts over parking spaces. I support it 100%.
  6. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Well-Known Member

    Oh. I'm not speaking of open carry. I'm talking about not requiring a permit to carry concealed. 4 states require no permit. 5 if you count Wyoming being resident-only.
  7. tomrkba

    tomrkba Well-Known Member

    It is on them and is their responsibility. Open carry here requires no permit or class, so it is effectively no different other than the gun may be covered up.
  8. huntsman

    huntsman Well-Known Member

    Should Liberty be dependent on the consensus of the masses or is it an inalienable right?
  9. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Why do you assume that every state requires a class of any sort? Those states that don't have no higher crime rate from permit holders than those that don't.
  10. danez71

    danez71 Well-Known Member

    I like how AZ does it.

    They still offer a permit and having it gets you a couple more benefits such as carrying in a restaurant with alcohol and a school parking lot issue.
  11. gbran

    gbran Well-Known Member

    Most criminals already ccw. I don't see a problem with law abiding citizens doing the same.
  12. brboyer

    brboyer Well-Known Member

    Never had to take any class.

    Not my job to 'trust' anyone. They break the law, they go to jail. Simple.

    Should people be required to take a State mandated literacy test and conduct background investigations on politicians before they vote?

    Should people be required to take a State mandated religious exam before being 'allowed' to participate in the religion if their choice?

    Should people be required to have a college-level English degree before they are allowed to post on internet forums?
  13. MErl

    MErl Well-Known Member

    My thoughts on this have evolved over the past year or so.

    Permit less carry is a good thing. There should not be an assumption of either incompetence or malicious intent and a permit system exists because of one or the other.
    The old argument of not knowing if a person is a criminal or not is moot today. The same interaction that will verify a permit will get a complete criminal background on somebody.

    Training and knowledge is a good thing but that does not mean it should be a law.
  14. siglite

    siglite Well-Known Member

    I'm an advocate for constitutional carry. A state delegate sent me a message that was as succinct as I've ever seen. It said simply, "when are people going to stop pretending that it's about keeping guns out of the wrong hands?"

    A profound statement, and I do not know if it was hers originally or if she picked it up elsewhere. But base logic says that guns will be in "the wrong hands." They simply will. Mr. Market will have his way.

    If one accepts that it simply isn't about keeping guns out of the wrong hands, because such a mission is folly, what is left as rationale for restriction?
  15. Red Wind

    Red Wind Well-Known Member

    Not required by Alaska,Arizona, Vermont and so many other States. They are doing just fine. Just another infringement.
  16. Charlie Horse

    Charlie Horse Well-Known Member

    This thread shows the multitude of different states' procedures. In Alabama, there is no test, or class. The Alabama Sheriff's Association essentially said that the permit system is more about money into the pocket of the various Sheriff's Offices.
  17. rockhopper46038

    rockhopper46038 Well-Known Member

    Yes. Constitutional Carry is the goal. Always.
  18. Duckdog

    Duckdog Well-Known Member

    Even the best intensions by state legislatures can be abused by officials. In WI we did not have to give fingerprints, but they do have other limited info that per the law can not be accessed without a warrant, but... who's to say how it may really be used?? We also did not need to take a class if you had military training that applied or had a hunters safety, which does not cover any of the stuff the OP has mentioned and we are in good shape, so I say constitutional carry all the way.
  19. torqem

    torqem member

    As Harlon Carter said:"That is the price of freedom". yes, a lot of scumbags, and quite a few innocents will get shot, a lot more will get locked up and a whole lot more will have the bejesus scared out of them. So what? The world's over-populated by a factor of 10 as it is.

    We already have constitutional carry in AZ, Wy, VT, and Alaska. are those states hotbeds of violence?
  20. LemmyCaution

    LemmyCaution Well-Known Member

    I'll hasten to point out that the Zimmerman/Martin shooting did not happen in Vermont, nor did the Wafer/McBride shooting. In fact, I'm not aware of any recent (last 1/2 century) cases of concealed carriers involved in bad, or even particularly questionable shoots in Vermont.

    That isn't to say that I haven't heard some completely ignorant bluster about when one is legally justified to shoot, but the tenet OP's thesis is the hoary Wild West cliché that has been debunked into the ground regarding Constitutional Carry.

    Of course the OP is free to argue that small, highly educated, wealthy, extremely liberal Vermont represents an exceptional case, but I don't think he will.

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