Disappointing results: .357 mag 180gn XTP

[JRWhit]

Just finished a work up with 180gn XTPs using win 296. Found my accuracy at 13.2 gns. Groups started to open, not by much but opened nun the less, at 13.5 with max listed at 13.7gn. Surprising to me this seems like a puny .357 load.
Recoil is less than my 125gn loads with the same powder. With accuracy leaving I see no point in pushing it any faster. Is the 180gn weight just out side of the realm of advantage in the .357? I honestly have no use for this round other then exploration of different combinations, I thought it may be a useful hog round. I have loaded some 180s before using blue dot and thought they seamed punchy, but all the blue dot loads seam fairly puny compared to the 296 loads. This load doesn't seam to have any advantage over Blue Dot. If I settle on having some around I'll probably revert back to blue dot. Are my experiences here typical? Has other's experiences differed from mine? I am under the impression that Blue Dot favors heavier bullets, but I was also under the impression that 296 worked well with all weights. When I move to working up for 158gn Noslers, will I be better off using Blue Dot?

 

[stavman11]

hmmm

i have not loaded any 170gr or 180 gr in my .357 with h110/296... But as far as the 158gr bullets go... i really Like my 15gr loads.... they have a NICE POP and very good magnum load for sure.... I am actually trying some 14gr Loads on Tuesday ta see if they tame down just a bit

now wouldnt a Bigger Bullet feel tamer than a lighter Bullet?


Curious ta see what other say

 

[James2]

Powder choice should be influenced some by barrel length. Faster powders for short barrels, and slower powders for longer barrels.
Usually the higher velocities can be achieved with slower powders. However if some of it is burning when the bullet leaves the barrel , no advantage.

It would seem that a heavier bullet should give a healthier recoil. Then again recoil is dependent on other factors too besides bullet weight. More powder will give a heavier recoil. Faster burning powders may also give a healthier recoil. Gun weight and style will also make a difference in our perceived recoil.

Sorry, I haven't played with that weight bullets in 357. I am using Unique with my 160 gr cast bullets. Unique has served me well in lots of different applications.

Have fun!

 

[JRWhit]

Left out the pistol. All shots are fired from a 6" gp100.
These are some pretty slow movers for a magnum. The data shows 1050fps out of an 8" revolver. If that's as overstated as most they may be going around 700fps out of my 6".
May just have to table this one.

 

[buck460XVR]

Some guns just don't like certain combos. This is one of the obvious things once one starts to hand-load. H110/W296 likes/needs heavy CONSISTENT crimps for consistent ignition, especially with heavy for caliber bullets. Consistent ignition means consistent accuracy. For consistent heavy crimps, one needs brass all the same length.

 

[JRWhit]

The accuracy wasn't to bad. About 2.15 group of six at approx 20yds with rest.
I guess I was just expecting more punch. All brass was trimmed to match length before loading. Used a medium crimp, but didn't really have much of the way of inconsistent shots.

 

[James2]

I would load them for best accuracy. Hey, don't worry even at 700 FPS a bullet that size will do bad damage.

I just got back from an afternoon of shooting where I shot a variety of guns, 357, 44 Spl, 44 Mag, 22LR. Of the lot, the worst kicker is my light weight Taurus 44 SPL. It is actually uncomfortable to shoot more than ten rounds. Shooting the 44 Spl ammo in the Ruger 44 Mag gun was a cakewalk in comparison. The Mag ammo in the Ruger is more comfortable. Hey, I like the little light weight gun for carry, but not for more than a few shots of target practice. I don't know why you are missing the "KICK" ? Just load em up and enjoy.

 

[RealGun]

I use the 180g XTP in a 5" GP!00 but I am using 16g PowerPro300-MP. It will get your attention, trust me, while not at all a full power load. I tried 17g and couldn't deal with it...owyowy!!, although the gun is since much friendlier with the Hogue Tamer grip.

 

[Captcurt]

Left out the pistol. All shots are fired from a 6" gp100.
These are some pretty slow movers for a magnum. The data shows 1050fps out of an 8" revolver. If that's as overstated as most they may be going around 700fps out of my 6".
May just have to table this one.

I have shot a 6" GP for 20 years and it loves 180 XTP 's. I can crank it to 1200fps with AA#9. I was going to shoot some H110 to push another 100fps but it shoots so well I don't want to change. I took a doe this week with it. She went 60 yards. That makes 6 with this gun.

 

[gamestalker]

I load oodles of magnum wheel guns with 296 and just love the magnum action it produces. However, when I'm seeking heavier bullets I move up to a 44 mag.. I've always felt like the .357 is at it's best with 158's, and 125's if you really want to get them moving.

As for hunting rounds, myself and my boys have had no problems dropping mule deer in their tracks with either the 158's or the 125's with that 296, or H110, which is the same powder. As long as your using a good bullet like the XTP's or Gold Dots penetration should be very good.

GS

 

[JRWhit]

I'm going to give them another go. May just be my perception as I do not have a chrono to actually get useful info on where is in relation to listed data.
I'm sure others have similar experiences where some days recoil seems light in everything and other days they all seem excessive.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Left out the pistol. All shots are fired from a 6" gp100.
These are some pretty slow movers for a magnum. The data shows 1050fps out of an 8" revolver. If that's as overstated as most they may be going around 700fps out of my 6".
May just have to table this one.

I don't know where you're getting your data but the Hodgdon data shows a charge of 13.5gr W296/H110 generates 1396 fps from a 10" barrel. Even if your data was right I highly doubt you would lose 350 fps by shortening the barrel by 2". I have a 4" M686 that is not known for high velocities and with a charge of 13.5gr W296 it generates an AV of 1046 fps w/180gr XTP bullet. That's a far cry from your 700 fps guess. Without sending those rounds over a chrono there's no way of knowing for sure what the velocity of the bullet is.

 

[JRWhit]

Data is from Hornady 8 th edition. Shows 1050 out of an 8 in Python. You right that there's no way of knowing. Just speculating.

 

[Cosmoline]

Is the 180gn weight just out side of the realm of advantage in the .357?

Not at all. I've had excellent results with 180's and even 200 grain bullets in various 357's. It depends on a lot of factors just as any handload. You really can't get a good load/gun combo without trying a few powders at various charges. Then you'll find a sweet spot. If win 296 doesn't work well try 2400.

FWIW I've had an easier time with cast heavies at lower velocities than the XTP heavies.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

FWIW I've had an easier time with cast heavies at lower velocities than the XTP heavies.

I like a 180gr Hard Cast GC bullet for the .357 Magnum especially when shot from a Carbine. From my Marlin 1894C shooting a 180gr Cast Performance bullet I get an AV of 1547 fps with W296 and an AV of 1657 fps with Lil'Gun. Generating 1657 fps with a 180gr bullet is not a load to sneeze at and it can easily take a White Tail.

 

[NCsmitty]

To take advantage of W296/H110, you need magnum primers and a heavy crimp to allow the powder to generate the proper pressures.



NCsmitty

 

[627PCFan]

Try 2400 or aa#9. Can't go wrong. Also I've had good luck with imr4227

 

[joneb]

Try 2400 or aa#9. Can't go wrong.

I agree.

 

[JRWhit]

Try 2400 or aa#9. Can't go wrong. Also I've had good luck with imr4227

Am I mistaken or have they recently made changes to the composition of 4227?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Am I mistaken or have they recently made changes to the composition of 4227?

No, I don't think 4227 has been changed for a very long time.

What has happened recently is, because H4227 and IMR4227 were either very similar or actually the same powder Hodgdon decided to discontinue H4227 in favor of IMR4227. They were also talking about doing the same with H4198 and IMR4198 but both are still in their respective catalogs so who knows?

 

[JLDickmon]

I'd like to relate some personal experience...

I gave up on the 180 XTP in that application because you just can't quite get enough powder in the case, at any burn rate, to drive that pill fast enough to realize it's full potential.

If you had say, a 10" Contender in .357 Max., that might be a different story.
But 158 is the optimum (in my own not-real-humble, and twisted, convoluted opinion) for that cartridge.

 

[joneb]

I gave up on the 180 XTP in that application because you just can't quite get enough powder in the case, at any burn rate, to drive that pill fast enough to realize it's full potential.

I find the 180gr bullet gives the option of having a sub-sonic load with good penetration in a 3-4" barrel.

 

[RealGun]

I gave up on the 180 XTP in that application because you just can't quite get enough powder in the case, at any burn rate, to drive that pill fast enough to realize it's full potential.

I use the 180 XTP with 16-17g PowerPro 300-MP. I have to ask, what is "the full potential"? I hope it is not dependent on punishing the shooter more than usual. Are you referring to penetration and expansion as a function of velocity?

 

[huntershooter]

Both the 180 gr. XTP and 180 gr. WFNGC shoot extremely well from several of my .357's using AA9.
Both 4" and 6" barrels run 1200+ and 1300+ FPS.

 

[Hondo 60]

I ordered some 180 a while back.
Just cuz I could, I wanted a different load.

I too, had less that spectacular results.
I've come to the conclusion that 180 grains is just too much.

I'm MUCH happier with my home cast 158gr LRN