Does the .380 really have enough stopping power?

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There have been a number of studies that conclude that energy transfer in handgun calibers is not a factor when it comes to stopping power.

I will however agree that the heavier bullets available in 38 special have better bone breaking ability.

Is that enough to make me carry my 38 snubby? No!
 
Just for reference, since there is so much apparent equivalence among the numbers between 380 and 38 special, i've noticed that when I'm shooting steel, especially revolving or falling targets, the 38 special imparts much more energy to the targets than do the 380. In fact, the 38 special seems to be much more powerful than the numbers would indicate. Maybe it's just me, but I can tell the difference among 38, 380, 9mm, 9mm+p, 40, 357 sig, etc. It's obvious that the large slug of the 38 special delivers more useable energy than some other bullets. Why I don't know.

It is because given equal energy larger, slower bullets have greater momentum than smaller ones. If you think about this carefully, momentum transfer is what makes steel targets move after they're hit. And the reason that heavier bullets have more momentum than lighter bullets that have the same kinetic energy (resulting from a similar powder load) is that while both momentum and energy vary proportionally with mass, momentum also varies proportionally with velocity while energy varies with the square of velocity. This means that in order to keep the amount of energy the same, a bullet that weighs half as much as another does not need twice the velocity but less (multiplied by the square root of 2 ≈ 1.414). However, it would still need to double its velocity to have the same momentum as the heavier bullet, and ~1.414 isn't going to do it, meaning that the lighter bullet must, by the laws of physics, have less momentum.

This does not mean that a small 17 cal or 5.7 slug is not destructive.

Destruction is a form of work, which is the same as energy. Some types of destruction are more effective than others, depending on the context, but boiled down to a single number, it is the kinetic energy of a bullet that gives it its potential to destroy (with its momentum being its ability to push, I suppose). Note that most here seem to believe that kinetic energy is easy to waste if it is simply converted into a small amount of heat rather than destruction. This happens with steel targets, as you pointed out--lighter bullets waste more energy in the forms of heat and distributing their particles around, while heavier bullets do more actual work on the targets. How or whether this principle applies to fleshy targets will probably always be a matter of debate.

Currently, I use relatively heavy, slow bullets because I believe that they're more efficient in destroying flesh (among other reasons), but it's arguable because loads utilizing light bullets tend to have a lot more energy to work with. This is probably because the cases in compact calibers limit the maximum charge of powder, and heavier bullets are longer so they take up more space, allowing for a smaller charge and less energy as a result. Sometimes this means that light bullets can have close to the same momentum as heavy bullets, in a given caliber, or in rare cases even more.

When you compare a .380 bullet at around 100 grains, vs. a .38 bullet at 158 grains, the latter will definitely carry more energy, if velocities are similar.

Well, of course, but .38 Special and .380 ACP are closer than that in terms of energy, so 158 grain bullets will always be moving substantially slower than 100 grain bullets, regardless of which of these two calibers you're talking about. The difference, as I explained above (hopefully in a comprehensible manner), is that a 158 grain bullet with the same energy will have greater momentum. For steel targets, the difference this makes is readily apparent, but obviously flesh is not steel.
 
I watch a lot of reality crime shows. What surprised me the most was the number of murders committed with 380s and 22s. They cause, in the shows I've seen, the majority of firearms deaths.
 
I watch a lot of reality crime shows. What surprised me the most was the number of murders committed with 380s and 22s. They cause, in the shows I've seen, the majority of firearms deaths.
Get ready for "but how fast did they die.":uhoh:
 
I watch a lot of reality crime shows. What surprised me the most was the number of murders committed with 380s and 22s. They cause, in the shows I've seen, the majority of firearms deaths.

That's not because they're more lethal than larger and more powerful calibers, but because they happen to be used more often for such a purpose. Gun enthusiasts and law enforcement tend to go for the larger calibers, while criminals and laymen use whatever is easiest for them to afford or conceal.

Get ready for "but how fast did they die.":uhoh:

Naturally, but with murder it doesn't matter as long as they eventually die. And putting a bunch of rounds into typically helpless victims can be done to ensure as well as expedite the process, of course. The only reason to use a larger caliber is to hopefully disable more quickly with fewer hits if possible.
 
Gun enthusiasts and law enforcement tend to go for the larger calibers, while criminals and laymen use whatever is easiest for them to afford or conceal.

So I guess that must make me a laymen hugh??:rolleyes:
 
So I guess that must make me a laymen hugh??:rolleyes:

I meant that gun enthusiasts have more of a tendency (I did say "tend" ;)) to go for larger calibers than laymen do, not that all gun enthusiasts always do or are defined by it. Certainly many here own and carry handguns of smaller calibers for perfectly valid reasons, including concealment. The point was that even current "service" calibers such as 9mm and .45 ACP are not as common among the general population as we gun enthusiasts might guess based on our own collective tendencies, and this is reflected in crime and murder statistics being heavily skewed toward smaller calibers.
 
True, I can get 9mm, .40, and .45 at Wallyworld.

No .380 left for going on a year and a half now. Local gun stores that do get some ..380 are selling it allmost $1 a round.

I have found one store with a stockpile of WWB and Powerball for areasonable price. Still really expensie though. I had no idea .380 was so popular in the "bigger is better" USSA.
 
380 are selling it allmost $1 a round.

I had no idea .380 was so popular in the "bigger is better" USSA.

yeah at some point I’m going to give into my darkside and start shouting conspiracy, when I bought my BDA in 03 the ammo was readily available and only $1.00 more than .9mm
 
No .380 left for going on a year and a half now. Local gun stores that do get some ..380 are selling it allmost $1 a round.

I have found one store with a stockpile of WWB and Powerball for areasonable price. Still really expensie though. I had no idea .380 was so popular in the "bigger is better" USSA.

Check online, lots of .380acp ammo available but just not necessarily at the local level.
 
True, I can get 9mm, .40, and .45 at Wallyworld.

No .380 left for going on a year and a half now. Local gun stores that do get some ..380 are selling it allmost $1 a round.

I have found one store with a stockpile of WWB and Powerball for areasonable price. Still really expensie though. I had no idea .380 was so popular in the "bigger is better" USSA.
Cabelas has all the 380 ammo you want at 30 cents a round.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0077402217240a&navCount=1&podId=0077402&parentId=cat20837&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat602007-cat20837&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20837&hasJS=true
 
True, I can get 9mm, .40, and .45 at Wallyworld.

No .380 left for going on a year and a half now. Local gun stores that do get some ..380 are selling it allmost $1 a round.

Well, it's hard to say why some rounds are available while others aren't, as high demand and lack of production can have the same effect independently, and the same goes for low demand and high production. I don't know enough about the dynamics of the ammunition market to really comment.

That said, what I suspect is that even though handguns in the service calibers are not as numerous as those in smaller calibers, most of the ammo that actually gets manufactured, purchased, and shot at the range are in the service calibers because they're what the heavy shooters shoot the most, while most gun owners in general rarely if ever practice at the range. With .380 ACP at the moment, the demand is higher than usual among enthusiasts as with the service calibers (yes, I know that .380 ACP has long been a service caliber and still is, but not in the US) but manufacturers are giving priority to the service calibers which have the highest demand overall. And obviously high demand + low production = scarce supply.

I have found one store with a stockpile of WWB and Powerball for areasonable price. Still really expensie though.

Several months ago a gun store near my area had almost nothing but .380 ACP of all kinds stacked up in huge stockpiles on the floor. :scrutiny: I should have asked what was up back then, but I guess they foresaw a major shortage of ammo in this caliber and searched far and wide for every box they could get.

I had no idea .380 was so popular in the "bigger is better" USSA.

Americans are still like that with some things, such as televisions, but we've also become fond of the opposite extreme when it comes to price (hence all the cheap junk we keep buying from China--no offense intended to China because they're smarter than us), and there are plenty of ultra-cheap pistols in the small calibers around.
 
Herter's Brass .380 Auto Handgun Ammunition
Item number:2UG - 217240
$149.99
This item is on backorder.
It was on back order the second time I ordered it but was back in stock in just a few days.

I originally purchased 500 rounds and it ran fine in all my 380 pistols so I ordered another thousand rounds and had it in just one week.
 
I was feeling depressed because WW was out of .45acp (again) so when I saw the .380 I thought cool, but they showed out also so that got me more upset.

I went ahead and ordered 40 rounds of BB, now I feel better poorer but better. ;)
 
Why does .380 .25 and.32 ACP ammo cost so much more than the larger calibers?

Well, part of the reason right now must be the lack of supply and the greater demand, which always jacks up prices. If they're also more expensive normally, it's probably because they don't benefit from the "economies of scale" that calibers such as 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP do. These service calibers are used heavily by the military, police, competitive shooters, and a large percentage of gun enthusiasts who shoot regularly for practice and for fun. Since their production is always fairly high, there is a lot of production capacity and components are produced in massive quantities, allowing for the most efficient methods to be used. Even though demand for them is usually also high, prices are kept as low as possible in order to encourage the market to grow or at least retain its consumers (as we all know, shooting can get expensive real fast).

Other calibers might be used heavily by some people, but the volume is still much lower overall (except for .22 LR, obviously), despite the majority of guns being chambered in the smaller calibers. The vast majority of people who own these guns, not counting those who are gun enthusiasts, simply don't shoot them much (when they do, unfortunately it's usually for a serious reason, righteous or otherwise). While lower demand usually means lower prices, in this case the cost of things like shipping, packaging, and even retail shelf space forces prices up to make the ammo worthwhile to produce in relatively small quantities and keep in stock. Perhaps an expert in manufacturing can give you more details about economies of scale, but in general lower volume production is less efficient and therefore more costly.
 
Well, part of the reason right now must be the lack of supply and the greater demand, which always jacks up prices. If they're also more expensive normally, it's probably because they don't benefit from the "economies of scale" that calibers such as 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP do. These service calibers are used heavily by the military, police, competitive shooters, and a large percentage of gun enthusiasts who shoot regularly for practice and for fun. Since their production is always fairly high, there is a lot of production capacity and components are produced in massive quantities, allowing for the most efficient methods to be used. Even though demand for them is usually also high, prices are kept as low as possible in order to encourage the market to grow or at least retain its consumers (as we all know, shooting can get expensive real fast).

Other calibers might be used heavily by some people, but the volume is still much lower overall (except for .22 LR, obviously), despite the majority of guns being chambered in the smaller calibers. The vast majority of people who own these guns, not counting those who are gun enthusiasts, simply don't shoot them much (when they do, unfortunately it's usually for a serious reason, righteous or otherwise). While lower demand usually means lower prices, in this case the cost of things like shipping, packaging, and even retail shelf space forces prices up to make the ammo worthwhile to produce in relatively small quantities and keep in stock. Perhaps an expert in manufacturing can give you more details about economies of scale, but in general lower volume production is less efficient and therefore more costly.
Sounds right to me. .25 ACP,.32ACP and .380 have always been more expensive than the larger calibers.
 
Why does .380 .25 and.32 ACP ammo cost so much more than the larger calibers?
Widener's has Prvi Partizan .32 ACP for $11.50 per box of 50, or $132 for 12 boxes. That's cheaper than other larger calibers except for 9mm, from what I've seen.
 
.380 stopping power is half that of a 9mm, its alot better then a .32acp for sure.

I wouldnt carry less then a 9mm for self defense.
Which is more available in caliber .380 or .32 ACP? Which one gives you more selection from FMJ, soft point to FMJ?
 
I got dies, lead, a mold, primers, powder, brass, I don't care. Mine are about a nickel a round.
you can't get any ammo at Walleyworld here. It's sold out and when it does come in it goes out faster than when it's delivered.
 
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