Don't like airweight snubs.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I've shot in the dark. I've shot at short range. I've shot at multiple targets. while i've done that, i've never wished my handgun was smaller, had worse sights or had a heavier trigger.

 

[Big_John1961]

Oh, it's easy to grasp, it's just too silly and short-sighted of a "concept" to take seriously.

Who among us can predict with 100% certainty that our confrontation will take place so close that the best tactic is to press the muzzle into the single hostile target? Anyone?

Using such a scenario to justify NOT practicing is......curious.

The encounter might be that close, but it might not. And over 40% of the time, there are multiple opponents.

I'm sure those that embrace the "no need to practice" doctrine would think when confronted by 3 badguys, "I'm sure glad I didn't practice any of this crap!"

Do you think someone well practiced couldn't press the muzzle into the target if necessary ? Or do you think they'd say, "Sir, you're much too close and I can't use my sights and preferred technique. Would you back up, please?"

Me, I'll continue to practice.

You're missing the point. The J-frames are designed for just such a confrontation, close in. They are not target pistols and they are not match pistols. They are defensive firearms with a specific point to their design. To kvetch that they don't live up to a standard for which they weren't designed is pointless.

Guns like the J-frames are designed for a specific purpose and they are very good tools for that purpose.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It seems to me that many denizens of gun forums prepare for the mythical long distance urban firefight, as if those even occur with an measureable frequency, ignoring the fact that if you do engage in such a confrontation, you'd damn well better keep a good attorney on retainer. The states I've lived in will likely throw you in the klink if you open fire on someone when your life is not in iminent danger, which is probably 10' or closer.

And based on what I've read -- mostly Masaad Ayoob -- people who end up in such situations usually throw out any sight training they have and point and shoot, simply due to the high stress level they are experiencing.

And nowhere did I say or imply not to practice.

 

[David E]

You're missing the point. The J-frames are designed for just such a confrontation, close in.

No, they are designed for convenience and ease of concealment.

To kvetch that they don't live up to a standard for which they weren't designed is pointless.

But the guns DO live up to that standard!

Guns like the J-frames are designed for a specific purpose and they are very good tools for that purpose.

They are designed for convenience and ease of concealment. And you're right, the guns excel for those purposes. But the gun was not "designed" for close range, muzzle to the belly confrontations. The confrontation will be what it is, not what you want or think it should be.

It seems to me that many denizens of gun forums prepare for the mythical long distance urban firefight,

5-10 feet is a "mythical long distance urban firefight?"

you do engage in such a confrontation, you'd damn well better keep a good attorney on retainer.

I see this a lot. If I did engage in a "long distance urban firefight," it'd be because innocent lives were at immediate risk.

And nowhere did I say or imply not to practice.

The post you copied and pasted basically asked "why practice?"

How do you practice with your snub?

 

[Warp]

Exactly. I don't why this concept is so hard to grasp

Carrying a gun that you are ineffective with beyond 3 feet with the justification that "it was made to be a contact distance belly gun" is a concept I don't get.

News flash: The gun you choose to carry does not dicate the situation you may find yourself in.

 

[heeler]

I know most of us with a bit of age grew up watching T.V. series such as Mannix,Streets of San Francisco,Highway Patrol,etc.
Not only did the detectives use these snubs but I positively know a LOT of Houston Police Detectives used these snubs as other big city police detectives did back in the 50's,60's and 70's before the plethora of smaller semi auto's came on the scene.
I am sure these pistols were capable in the correctly trained hands of being able to shoot from a distance of more than ten feet accurately.

 

[Kendal Black]

Carrying a gun that you are ineffective with beyond 3 feet with the justification that "it was made to be a contact distance belly gun" is a concept I don't get.

News flash: The gun you choose to carry does not dicate the situation you may find yourself in.

With a bit of squinting and careful trigger control, I get pretty good combat accuracy at 15 yards. I don't worry about shooting farther. The need to do so is statistically insignificant.

But, if you want to see what a real revolver man can do with a .38 snub, here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

This guy's pretty good too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_b3dAbKoJ0

 

[Warp]

@Kendal Black: Don't get confused, I'm not saying anything about the accuracy of the guns or the potential accuracy of them in a person's hands. I am only referring to the particular poster I quoted with the accuracy statement.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

A j frame can easily hit a target past 5 or 10'.

Whether the user can or not...

It's certainly better than a sharp stick I hope!

 

[fastbolt]

I thought I was going to need a map to figure out where this thread went off course ...

Come on folks.

Only you know if you're fooling yourself (and anyone else in cyberspace) when it comes to your real individual skillset with snub revolvers, let alone the lighter versions. If you don't know, visit a qualified instructor and ask to be assessed and offered some pointers.

If you like 'em, use 'em. If not, don't. Where's the mystery?

Use some common sense, experience and some prudent risk assessment to determine when one might suit your anticipated needs for lawful concealed carry, if one ever would.

I used to enjoy working alongside some other somewhat senior instructors who didn't get caught up in irksome, irrelevant debates about what each other preferred to carry in any given set of circumstances.

How well could we use whatever we chose in an ever demanding set of conditions, including surprise scenarios requiring threat identification and assessment (shoot/don't-shoot) ... and then, how well could we do using the guns used by the other guys? What could we learn about ourselves, comparing how we did with our choices with using those favored by the other folks? Were we at any time at risk of becoming overly dependent on "certain" favored guns, at the expense of letting our skillset foundation become lax?

I remember when some of the guys first started noticing I'd been bringing a couple of 5-shot wheelies to work range training & quals. At first it was some gentle ribbing. Later on, it was some surprise and interest in how well they could be used to address the same situations as "full-size duty weapons" ... and were so handy when it came to unobtrusive and convenient pocket carry off-duty (not everyone who can carry a weapon all the time on their own time really feels like doing so after it's been just another part of the job for 8-18 hours, you know).

Later still, they started to be interested in seeing what new 5-shot models might show up in my pocket. Steel? Alloy? .38 Spl or Magnum? External or internal hammer?

Finally, one day everyone looked around and realized there was this growing number of 5-shot guns coming through the range ... and quite a few of the other instructors owned a number of them.

More of them are appearing now than the .380's that used to be popular.

Even the folks who like them don't necessarily like all of them, or feel they're appropriate for all situations and circumstances. Why would they?

Pick what you like.

Your choice.

Practice, practice & practice ... properly & safely.

None of this is a contest around here, right?

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

The issue is fourfold.

1. the J-frame is not easy to shoot.

2. people who have a high skill level can do good things with them.

3. Everyone in the world thinks they have a high Skill level, except people with a high skill level.

4. People (who think they're better than they are) drop one and an SKS stripper clip full of ammo or a speed strip in a pocket and then think they're covered.

 

[mje]

I had an Airweight in .38spl that was just too painful to shoot to practice with- even with my wadcutter target loads. Research indicated me that a .380 in a 4" bbl had about the same ME as a .38spl in a 1-7/8" bbl, so I switched to a PPK.