Do's and don'ts of running a gunshop?

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Sadly, for a brick and mortar shop, the reloading section is nearly a waste of time. The profit margin is low, and the stocking costs are high. Receiving and stocking primers is difficult, with the cost of hazardous shipping. Mail order and internet suppliers have taken over the market. I'm not trying to anger you when I post this, it's simply the truth. Keep your reloading section small, you can fill that section/area with merchandise that will make a profit, and in turn, pay the bills.
 
Judge a customer by what he happens to have on. I have a friend that is literally a millionaire, but he likes to work on his antique cars and dresses accordingly. One day, after he'd worked on one of his cars, he stopped in to buy a very expensive rifle. The idiot clerk said, "You can't afford that, we have some cheaper ones." He walked out and bought the rifle somewhere else. How's that for a dumb clerk?

Guess he'd never heard of Sam Walton.
 
I work in the credit card industry.

As a merchant who accepts credit cards you sign a "Merchant agreement" with Visa, MasterCard, Discover, etc. when you sign up for card acceptance at your financial service/institution. This agreement is your "terms of service" to allow you to take cards as payment.

The following rules are requirements established and strictly enforced by Visa and MasterCard:


You cannot establish minimum or maximum amounts as a condition for accepting a card.
You cannot impose a surcharge or fee for accepting a card.
You may require the cardmember supply personal information (e.g. home or business phone number, delivery address) for the purposes of delivery only.
Any tax or shipping and handling must be included in the total transaction amount.
You may not submit any transaction representing refinance or transfer of existing cardholder obligation deemed uncollectable.

Accepting credit cards is seen as a convenience to the customer that allows merchants to obtain more sales due to that convenience; it is a cost of doing business in your financials. CODB is taken into account in your cost accounting procedures as a variable cost dependant on amount of sales.

If you attempt to charge a 3% credit card surcharge on your transactions using card payments you are in violation of your merchant agreement. The card providers will SHUT DOWN your card acceptance when you are in violation of the merchant agreement; I have reported merchants who do this and caused them to lose the ability to accept cards. Basically if the merchant tries to hit me with a surcharge I remind them of the agreement; 90% of the time the merchant has gone ahead with the sale and not charged me a fee; those that insist I report to the card providers and I have personally seen people get card acceptance pulled for this.

HOWEVER: Offering a cash discount is technically not a violation as long as it applies to checks, etc. as well.

Just FYI.
 
Very interesting info, Evan. Is that the uniform standard for the industry, no exceptions? I've been refused use of my credit card because my amount was "too low" before. Granted, hasn't happened in a while, but I'll remember this for future use.

There are of course sellers on various places (ebay, Gunbroker, etc.) who tack on fees, but I suspect it'd be hard to get them to desist, especially as many use paypal.
 
evan,
How about us poor slobs that don't "work in the industry"? How do we go about reporting such violations? (And making it stick.) I see merchants all of the time (mainly on-line) that have surcharge and nothing ever seems to happen to them.

Dean
 
"quote" evan price

Basically if the merchant tries to hit me with a surcharge I remind them of the agreement; 90% of the time the merchant has gone ahead with the sale and not charged me a fee; those that insist I report to the card providers and I have personally seen people get card acceptance pulled for this.

:scrutiny:

I guess I agree with evan's meaning. Everybody should just raise their prices across the board and stop this trying to fool the buyers with a lowball price. All merchants need to get together and figure the cost increase as maybe 4% across the board. Merchandise plus shipping needs to be figured in so it will have to be higher than the 3%. No more cash discounts or any of these other tricks. Truth in advertising, you pay the advertised price and not a penny more.
 
Don't BS the customers or hire people who will.

Do something that Cabelas/Wal-Mart/Academy Sports doesn't.
Stock something that Cabelas/Wal-Mart/Academy Sports doesn't.
Have a niche or a few niches. You won't be able to compete on price, so you have to have the things that they don't and do the things they won't. That doesn't mean there can't be overlap, just that you'll kill yourself trying to compete with the big guys.

Be willing to trade/buy used guns.I know some people are idiots when it comes to being offended about offers, but don't let that stop you. There have been more than a few times I've had a gun and been willing to trade but haven't even been able to get an offer. Be up front about private sales netting more $$, but make an offer anyway.

Be nice. Forget the soapbox and save your rants for the internet.

Pick reasonable hours.I know shops that could dramatically increase the amount of business they do if they would open and close an hour later. There's one shop that I virtually NEVER get to visit due to my schedule. If they closed on a weekday and stayed open a little later on Saturday or on one weeknight, I think they'd see a lot more customers.

Know your competition and your customers.It amazes me what some stores stock. If I can buy the same box of ammo for half the price down the street, guess what's gonna happen. If you open a shop in a rural town, don't expect to make a lot of money selling high-dollar double guns and German optics.
 
Form 8

I really don't expect every gunshop to want to help a customer to import a completely legal but hard to find model of gun into the country. But it was my understanding that any FFL can initiate a Form 8 without any need for an importer's license. The problem is when virtually none of a state's FFL's wants to do one, it makes it nearly impossible to fulfill one person's supposedly legal option, to import a gun for personal use rather than profit. In a more ideal world, legal importation shouldn't have so many roadblocks imposed by most, if not all of the region's FFL holders. It's not necessarily the gov't. regulations either, but rather the multutude of FFL holder's that act as the roadblock.
Of course they don't have to help people out and that's their right, but isn't that what The High Road is supposed to be all about, helping to educate people about how to exercise all of their legal options concerning RKBA?
You can blame me for wishing. :D
I'm really not quite sure if Form 8's have to be initiated in one's home state or not, but I thought they did. Am I wrong?
 
But it was my understanding that any FFL can initiate a Form 8 without the need for an importer's license. The problem is when virtually none of a state's FFL's wants to do one.

You are exactly right. Gunshops limit themselves. It's too bad, because there are guns to import for which I wouldn't mind paying a decent paperwork fee.

What I really don't understand is the resistance to doing transfers. That is simply money in the bank. You didn't have to stock anything; you just do the paperwork like any other sale.

What I want from a shop:

Honesty- Don't lie to your customers, even the stupid ones.

Fair pricing- I expect to pay more at a gunshop than walmart, but not triple. I WANT to buy things from you, but not bad enough to hurt myself. There is no used Taurus 38 Special worth $400.

Full FFL service- Special Order me my weird guns that nobody has ever heard of, I'll pay up front. Flat rate transfers for private parties are a must.

Helpful Staff- They don't have to be esp. knowledgeable, just good basic gun handling, the ability to follow simple directions and make change.

Service- I don't want to take a number or wait in line to talk to someone. If you have that much business, hire more people.

David
 
It's not necessarily the gov't. regulations either, but rather the multutude of FFL holder's that act as the roadblock.

My FFL tells a different story - he has tried in the past to do imports, but was denied the import permit. The system is biased in favor of those who have prior experience and work in volume. An individual, FFL holder or not, trying to import something as inoffensive as a C&R piece, doesn't stand a chance.
 
having worked for a gunshop on weekends the last year, i have a new appreciation for the fortitude it takes to be respectful and polite to customers.

not all customers of course, i'd say a little more than half are really great people. but there are a lot who just don't get it. sometimes its not their fault, they get bad information from their buddies or gunrags or the internet, and then come in and think they know what they are talking about.

for example, this one guy who i knew way back when comes in one day, and wants to order up a .375h&h ultra mag. he wants to hunt moose or other big stuff. never hunted before. read a magazine about it, and his friends swore up and down that this gun is what he needs. four of us try to talk some reason into his head. explain how he's only going to squeeze marginal performance out of the ultra mag, and dish out a lot more punishment in forms of recoil. nope, he won't be swayed. alright. we'll order him a remington, cost him about $800. oooooohhh, thats a little high. he wants to pay $600 to maybe $700, and that includes scope. but wait, we tell him he's really going to want that ultra mag to have a brake on it. theres another $250 or whatever. now he's gotta think about it.
then he remembers he wanted to trade in a shotgun towards his hunting rifle. comes back from the car with a mossberg marine. good shape, since he's a friend of mine, the manager says 'i can give you $200 for it in trade in'. well someone else offered him $450 for it. told him to go track down that sucker and get that $450 for it!

another customer comes in, wants to look at a semi-auto .308 with a 26" barrel. gee, theres not a lot of those around. at the moment didnt even have a semi-auto .308; suggested the m1a or a JLD. turns out he wants to hunt with it. okay. 'how far do you think your average shot is going to be?'
"ohh 800 to 1000 yards". hmmmm, well dontcha think something like a .338 might be a bit better at those distances, especially on caribou? a little more 'ooomph'. guy didnt know what he wanted. oh yeah, and his budget was $1500.

garage gunsmiths, you gotta love when they come in with their 'custom' guns and want to sell them to you. 'i got about three grand in that there 30'06, i'd like to get ohh, at least $2,800 for it.
well sir, you have multiple holes in the action from your attempts to drill/tap it yourself, looks like you took an acetylene torch to the bolt handle, your stock that you hand checkered isnt mounted correctly, which might explain the use of the oversized screws under the triggerguard, and theres more rust/pitting than blue. and because it was all your work done on it, i can't sell this to a customer because i don't know that you did the work 100%. so i'll give you $100 because all i'm going to do is take it apart and sell the individual parts on ebay, and maybe try to salvage the action for a custom job that actually will be worth something.

the 'thrifty' customers are also a pain. guy walks in, its christmas eve, or day before, i cant remember. we were just closing up, lights were turned off, but hey, he wants to take a look around, so we turn everything back on. guy likes the trijicon ta31-rco. msrp is $1400, normally we have it for well, lets just say, considerably less than msrp, and have even been more generous as to put a $1050 price tag on it for x-mas shoppers. manager goes out of his way, says '$1,000, shall we wrap that up for you?'
guy sneers 'i can get it online for $965., can you match that?'
:scrutiny:


so when you walk into a gunshop, and you see the employee there with a scowl on his face, consider that the person who just walked out of the store was one of the guys i described above. we do our best, we try to answer your questions, try to greet you as you enter, offer to show you guns off the rack or in the display case. we tell you when we can get you a better deal than the shop up the street. we explain why sometimes we can't compete. occasionally we tell you 'go buy it from sportsmans, i'd rather see you get a gun and pay less than what you would get it from us for. we tell you when the custom work you want us to do to a 40 yr old rifle will destroy its value, and will cost more than buying something newer.
what more can you ask for?
 
He can buy the trijicon ta31-rco for 965.00 on the net. Now add 20.00 insured shipping and 3 or 3.5% credit card fee.;) OOPS, the trijicon ta31-rco is on back order and should be shipped to mister thrifty in the next 45 to 60 days.:D
 
Unfortunately, all this knowledge about running a gun shop is doing me little good. I don't plan on running a gun shop. However, I do try to be a good customer. Rules or suggestions for being a good customer would be useful.

I have a few self imposed rules in no particular order. Your own rules may vary.

1. I buy local when possible or reasonable. Midway or Cabelas don't do me any good Saturday afternoon on the way to the range.

2. If I take their time I try to buy something - a box of ammo, cleaning patches, what ever. Their time is money. An extra 50 cents more for something won't break me. See #1.

3. I do my best not to act like someone or ask the questions that get you featured in these forums.

Note: I drove by Correia's shop 3 times this weekend traveling I-15. I knew there was a member's store somewhere in the area but not what or where. Maybe I'll be down that way again before the year is out. Buy some patches or something.
 
I will revise and limit my responses.

Never lie. EVER, Don't tell someone that you just got this great rifle in on trade and will let it go for what you paid for it plus 20 bucks, because the person you lie to may be the person who sold you the gun for 200 less than what you claimed.

Work some hours that working men can get in and see you. That means a few nights after 6 preferably 8 pm.

make a niche for yourself. find some area that others are not covering well. make it yours. But look at what is needed. Do not decide to carry a lot of bullseye and silhoutte guns in an area where no one is shooting bullseye or silhouette. drive around and look at the other gun shops in your area. Do any of them carry CCW supplies? a good knife selection? target sports? sporting clayes? find a niche and add that as a specialty.

Inventory. carry some new, if you can, go looking at pawn shops that have a lot of used guns and offer to by them out. We used to go on buying expeditions every spring early summer when pawn shops had been sitting on them for months, traveling around a five state region and buying inventory. This takes CASH. Doing it tho gave us hundred of good used inventory that we sold and made enough money to cover the costs of the trip as well as the cost of the guns and still make a profit. Some pawn shops we dealt with would be waiting for us with a hundred guns.

Thin out the crap Do not stock junk. sorry fans of Jennings and Lorcins but you will loose more customers than you make by stocking that stuff. I personally find it objectionable when I see that rubbish on a shelf. I know others feel the same.

If you want to carry low priced weapons. Look at carrying Kel tec and some police takebacks. These making it possible for you to meet the low end customers needs and still respect yourself.

Carry what the big box stores do not carry. 7.62R and .300 savage, 250 savage, .358 winchester, and some of the other more popular secondary
calibers. See what has been selling in your area as far as surplus. Up here not many M_N's but lots of SMLE's and Swedes, so stock 303 and 6.5x55.

Be willing to establish a buying network with other shops. WE were a smaller shop but we had an agreement with three other shops located on the other fringes of the metro area to put in our gun orders as one, raising our buying power, moving us to a higher discount column. we all won, we also knew who had what other guns and would often trade between us or refer customers back and forth for items we had or did not have. The difference between ordering two guns for our store and ten or twelve every day Made a big difference in prices. maybe 20 per gun maybe more. the beginning of the season stock up buy might make a 30 dollar a gun difference. Not enough to make it the same as wally world, but it got us close, throw in some well bought accessories and we would often make the sale.
 
This might be controversial, but I would develop a policy of asking the "comandos" to leave before they get too comfortable. I am obviously a commited gun-owner and I can put up with a lot in the pursuit of my hobby. Even i have walked out of stores because I could not pry the counter-person's attention from that of some weird camo-wearing dude, and occasionally I have been so put off by some of the crap that he is saying that I lose my interest in buying a gun that day. New shooters, and people who arent sure they want a gun yet are going to be *quickly* put off by such things. The absolute *worse* infraction along these lines is the know-it-all guy that likes to tell people that the gun they are looking at is crap, or espousing some assinine theory about guns that doesnt even pass the laugh-test on the first try. These guys actively discourage sales and they piss off customers.
 
Some tenets of a brick-and-mortar retail business are:


>>People do business with you because they want to, not because they have to.

This is even more important now that internet competition has become a major player in almost every industry. You don't have to kiss peoples' behinds, but a smile and a "Be with you in a second" to anyone who walks in the door sets the tone and lets them know you are at least aware of them. You can refuse a request or offer politely. You don't have to be a sourpuss. Just being pleasant will get you a lot of repeat business.


>>If someone has money and asks for a specific item, shut up and sell it to them!

I've lost count of how many times I've seen a person, money in hand, walk up to a counter and say "I want a (gun name here)" only to be told that they should buy something else instead. Huh? The person just said exactly what they wanted and had the money to buy it. If you have it, sell it to them. If you don't, ask if they would like for you to order it, or if there is something else they might consider as an alternative. Doing otherwise is a real good way to lose a sale. And a customer.


>> Don't try to be everything to everyone.

Stocking 20% of the most popular brands/parts/calibers will service 80% of the buying public. Unless you have the resources of a Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, or Wal-Mart, stock for your regular clientele. Offer to custom order (for a reasonable fee, if necessary) for those with less mainstream tastes. And "Big Selection" does not automatically equal "Good Selection". Whether it's guns, ammo, or accessories, just having a lot of it doesn't necessarily mean you have a sellable inventory. A half-dozen good choices is better than two dozen poor ones.


>> It's okay to set boundaries as long as they make sense to the people who pay your salary.

People understand reasonable guidelines. Asking them not to go behind the counter without assistance is reasonable. Putting a big open rack of AR-15's in the center of the store and then getting wiggy if someone starts fondling them will just make people look at you funny and wonder what you're smoking.


>>Neat and clean says a lot, and makes for a pleasant shopping experience.

Carpets should be vacuumed, floors should be swept, and counters wiped. If you don't have time to do it, hire someone to come in once a week a dot it for you. Keep your merchandised logically ordered, and keep it stocked and faced.

Brad
 
Brad is right, IF someone has landed on an item in the store, don't start confusing that decision by pointing them at another item. Another vote for Trades, & Wheelin' Dealin'

Recently experienced brain damage :banghead: - a store/dealer that sold me a 'consigned' pistol of a buddy of theirs - then, when it was my turn, the story was, "Sir, we don't take consignments." Huh? Same pistol w/box and instructions and not broken-in, yet.

This was less than one year after the purchase. Change in policy, I don't think so...I've purchased three guns at various locations in '05 and two in '06, and now, ONLY small items for convenience sake from their shop. Guessing they didn't really intend to run off a big ticket item - customer...
 
The worst gun shop I've ever seen is also the closest to my house. The owner seems rude when you first meet him, but once you get to know him you find that he's really just a sociopathic lunatic. I've been in there twice. Here's a summary of my visits:

Visit 1
My (then 10-year old) son and I go in to buy some .22 LR and targets. I'd driven by the place 1000 times but had never gone in. I pick up some targets and go to the counter to buy some ammo. He asks for my LTC (required here for ammo purchases) then says nothing but sits there and studies my LTC for about 30 seconds and then smirks and hands it back to me. I had just renewed it so the "issued" date was about 3 days earlier. I ask for a brick of CCI and he produces a Federal Bulk pack. I politely tell him that I want the CCI and before I can get the "I" out in CCI he snaps, "Same f-ing thing!". In spite of the fact that he just dropped an F-bomb in front of my 10-year old, I politely told him that it was not the same thing - the rims on the Federals have varying diameters, and don't feed well in my rifle. He asked what kind of rifle and I told him it is a Taurus 62 gallery gun. He then says, "That's because your gun is a piece of s**t." :fire:

I turned to my son and said, "Let's go Buddy, this guy does not deserve our business."

Visit 2

OK, after Visit 1 you're probably wondering why there was a Visit 2. Here's why: I was loading up a batch of .38 wadcutters one Sunday afternoon and had about 40 bullets left when I ran out of W231. I wanted to finish that batch of .38's because I was going to change powders and calibers. My favorite shop was closed by that time so I took the short drive over to the bad shop. Unfortunately, he was open. The proprietor was sitting on the porch when I went in to the shop and kept me waiting at the counter for a good two minutes before he deigned to come in and see what I wanted. I asked for a pound of W231 and he asked, "What are you loading?" Now, I should have said, "None of your business" but without thinking I told him what I wanted it for. He said, "Wrong powder. You should be using Unique."

At that point, I lost it. I spent the next five minutes telling this jerk exactly what I thought he should be doing, and where he should be doing it.

If anybody local would like the name of the shop (to make sure you avoid it), PM me and I'll fill you in on the details.
 
I have to agree with you guys on this....I thought I was alone in the world when I walked out of a gunshop down here in Melbourne after being spoken to like I was dim witted.

I went into the store, obviously interrupted a stories session (they were only lacking a campfire) and the guy says, "Are you right?"

I replied, "What do you have in .223, perhaps Savage or Remington?"

He says, "No. Don't sell Savage. People come in here with 'em to repair and they're trouble."

I said, " Oh, I've read a lot of good stuff on the internet about them."
And then he comes out with...."The internet! What can I say mate? It's the scourge of the earth!"

"Well you advertise on there." Was my answer.

I walked out and vowed not to enter that gunshop again even if it was the last one on earth.
I mean, he had a guy there obviously ready to spend money and he blows it. I have heard that 2 out of 3 small businesses fail in the first 2 years. I wonder if they have a clue why??
 
My usual shop is full of knowledgeable people (some of them are board memebers, actually) but the guy that owns the place is more interested in being a police supply shop than a gunshop. As such, the shop is not allowed to order guns from just any distributor. I think Ellet Bros is the main one they use, and their prices are not great. By the time they add their markup to Ellet's price, lots of the guns are overpriced a good bit.

I've always said I don't mind paying a little more to buy locally, but paying $60 more on a <$600 gun just doesn't make sense - that's over 10% of the cost! And then adding sales tax (5-6% around here) and you're up quite a bit more than getting something transferred. I've still purchased several guns from them (.30-30, Keltec, Kimber, Sig 226, Mossy 500) when the prices are reasonable.

Shooter's Choice has a great selection, but they have pretty terrible prices, especially on higher end stuff. $1000 for a Bushy dissipator is silly when you can get them off GA all day long for around $800, which means dealers can get them even cheaper. Buy it for $800, sell it for $900, and actually make money on the thing because it will sell. They've had the same one on the shelf for at least 3 years because it's priced ridiculously high.

One choice I refuse to do business with is Wateree Arms. I asked if they had room to negotiate on their prices, this is the conversation:

Employee: "When we opened the shop we had to decide between marking the prices up and then haggling down, or giving the customer the best price right off the bat. We decided to give the best price instead of having to haggle."
Me: "C'mon, I know you have some room to move because that Pro Carry you have on the shelf for $700 I just bought across town for $625. I'm interested in this xxxx over here, but it's not worth that much to me."
Employee: "You're wrong, I can't even get that pistol at that price so I know you paid more for it."

Calling me a liar is not a good way to get repeat business. I went in there before that incident with cash in hand to buy a Mossberg Cruiser 20" they had marked at $230 the last time I was in there. I get there and they have changed the price to $265. When I asked why the price increase, the guy said I was wrong, and that it was the 18" version I had seen. Well no it wasn't, otherwise I wouldn't have driven all the way across town to get it when the 20" was exactly what I was looking for. I ended up buying that one from my favorite shop instead.

Oh, back to the Dos and Donts.

DO have reasonable prices - a $200 markup on an $800 item is NOT reasonable.
DON'T call your customers liars, or be overly pompous.
DO have employees that are polite and somewhat knowledgeable.
DON'T lock yourself in to just one or two distributors.
DO carry surplus ammo. Even if it's marked up by 50%, it's cheaper than buying factory stuff and is perfect for plinking.
DON'T charge $40+ for transfers when the going rate around town is $25.

It's easy to turn people away forever from a shop, and they're likely to talk about why they don't go there. It's equally easy to gain repeat business - be nice. Even if your prices aren't the greatest, people will at least be willing to try to deal with you if you're nice. People also talk about good experiences. When new shooters ask me where to look for guns, I tell them to go to Palmetto due to decent prices and excellent help. Wateree Arms also comes up - as in "stay very far away from there."
 
Quote LiquidTension, "$1000 for a Bushy dissipator is silly when you can get them off GA all day long for around $800, which means dealers can get them even cheaper. Buy it for $800, sell it for $900, and actually make money on the thing because it will sell."

I truly know what you're saying. It's better to make the sale (and a profit) than not to make the sale. Herein lies the crux of the problem with selling new guns. Investors won't put out their money or loans for a business returning such a low profit margin. $200 profit on an $800 item nets a mere 20% margin. Lower that retail price to $900 and it becomes an 11% profit margin. I don't know how many of you have sought business loans, but even 20% won't keep a shop in businesss. I can imagine the scowls crossing your faces as you read this, but name a business, except for grocerys, that operate on such small margins.

Many businesses have investors or backers to answer to. The sad truth is that an investor can put their funds elsewhere and recoup much better return on their investment. This is the sad reality for most gunshops, and something good customers should realize.
 
"$1000 for a Bushy dissipator is silly when you can get them off GA all day long for around $800, which means dealers can get them even cheaper.

Not necessarily. Large volume retailers can often sell a product at a price LOWER than many small shops' wholesale cost. They can do it because of volume buying discounts and savings on bulk freight vs. single item shipping fees.

Brad
 
I just checked prices with three of the wholesalers that I use. If I sold a E2S A3 Dissipator Carbine for 900.00 and the customer paid with a credit card I would make just enough on the deal to buy a Diet Pepsi.:what:
 
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