Do's and don'ts of running a gunshop?

[deadin]

I tried to bring in a S&W that had been sold to England during WW1. I had a C&R at the time. They gave me so much s**t I finally gave up. (I quit when they demanded that I prove that it hadn't been in Albania, etc. in the last X number of years.) It was like some little bureaucrat decided that I wasn't going to counter his original decision that it wasn't qualified for import and just kept coming up with more roadblocks, I think we went back and forth three or four times before I gave up.

Dean

 

[cracked butt]

One of my favorite stores doesn't stock much for guns, but if I ask about a certain model, the owner will punch the specs into his computer and which will spit out a price and a delivery time. Every gun I've bought from the place has been competitively priced and no more than $20 more than other shops in the area are charging.

On the other end of the spectrum, a Sportsman's Warehouse just opened in my area. I went there to ask if they refletched arrows there, and the archery guy there said no, but walked me through the process using a fletching jig that they sold, gave me some good technical information about a relatively new vane that they sold, and told me they are running a bow tuning seminar in a few weeks and gave me information about it. I looked around and saw the large selection of guns they had, including ARs which are usually way overpriced in the shops in my area that carry them, and they also carried a vaiety of ammo from premium hunting loads to bulk plinking/target loads. I ended up spending about $1200 in that store in a week.

 

[hellinpetticoats]

50% of the population is female

I've waded through this long long thread to see if any ladies had stories about their treatment at the hands of gun shop denizens. There were no responses from the ladies. I saw only one response on the first page that suggested shops might be wise to make it a policy to be pleasant to women and kids.

I hope I live long enough to see gun shops that welcome ladies and have ladies as employees who are able to help us with our unique needs. More and more of us want firearms for self-defense. Now there's a niche, or maybe a crater, that needs to be filled.

 

[PvtPyle]

We are very fond of the ladies, in many ways! Not only do they make up a large portion of the population, but a growing segment of our customer base. When a wife shoots with her husband, they both are better customers, and happier ones.

We are actively looking for qualified females to work in the new location, and to teach our female CCW, self defense and situational awareness classes. The plan is to have at least one female on the sales floor at all times. Not just as another pretty face but as an instructor and RKI on the shooting sports. All of our staff will be range masters and basic instructor certified, especially the females.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You're not in someone's home, you're in a store that is open to the public. You're not looking at something without permission, it's been set out specifically for you to look at. If they don't want you to touch it, they can put it behind glass or put out a sign.

It's not reasonable to compare going into someone's house with entering a public business, nor is it kosher to liken handling someone's personal property in their home without permission to handling merchandise in a store.

It's still their property until you hand over cash and take possession. Common courtesy dictates that you ask before handling their property. In addition to being just plain rude and arrogant, trying to justify this severe breach of personal ettiquette with "..but it's for sale!" is selfish, self-centered, and discourteous.

With attitudes like that it's no wonder people look at some gun owners as a fickle, extreme, pushy bunch.

Brad

 

[arcticap]

Form 6

But YOU can do your own form 6, without a dealers assistance. All the blocks are detailed on the second page of the form in nice easy to read formats (for a change).

Thanks for correcting me about the name of the Form 6. But the instructions don't seem to be as clear to me as you say that you think they are.

The Form 6 Instructions say:

7. A nonlicensed person may submit this application to import his
personally owned ammunition (not firearms) into the U.S. for his
personal use and not for resale.

Doesn't "(not firearms)" mean "(not firearms)"?

The form does seem to have exceptions for soldiers and people living overseas (or Canada) coming in to (or returning) into the U.S. WITH their own arms IN HAND for sporting purposes, but as far as importing for non-profit personal use, the above requirement appears to indicate that otherwise importing a gun requires an FFL license holder to apply for the permit for it to be approved.
Coming in to the U.S. with a gun in hand and trying to import one from one's residence seems to be covered by different regulations.

 

[JohnKSa]

It's still their property until you hand over cash and take possession. Common courtesy dictates that you ask before handling their property.

Not if it's placed on public display with no sign stating that handling is not allowed. The NORM in a store is to expect that merchandise on display may be handled unless it is behind glass or there posted instructions to the contrary.

Offhand, I can't imagine where you would have gotten the idea that items on display in a public store shouldn't be handled. What kind of stores do you frequent that require the customers ask permission before touching merchandise that is displayed in the open (not behind glass or otherwise separated from the customers)?

 

[dance varmint]

Oo oo!

At the most recent shop I visited, they used this twice:
Whenever a customer asks about anything that is not in stock,
say "yup, we had one of them a coupla weeks ago, but it went
pretty quick". This brilliant ploy proves that your prices
are so competitive, and demand is so hot, that customers
should be prepared pay full asking price or someone else
will snap up that treasure. (Never mind that the customer
might ask, "So why didn't you restock more of those guns
that went so quick?")

Also, insinuate that the customer is at fault for your inability
to hear them talking, maybe because you never shewt with
any ear protection.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

Quote:
As for my biggest gripe about gun shops: transfer costs. I got my FFL mainly out of spite, because I couldn't find a dealer who would transfer a gun for under $30. I don't know what they should cost, but I know about how much time it takes to address an envelope/send a fax, log a gun in and out, and fill out the NICS online form. The total time of work put into a transfer is under 10 minutes, and the only cost to the dealer is time. At $30 that comes out to $180 an hour.


"Boy, do I agree on this one. Particularly when it's a private FFL holder. He operates right out of his home. Why does he need to charge so much to do a transfer It's not like he has a big overhead like a gunshop owner does.
The ones here want $25 to $40 for a long gun and $40- $60 for a handgun.
Some want 10% of the purchase price

Maybe I'm missing something here. I just don't get it"

What you are missing is that the Dealers has to keep those records on file for the next 20 years. Though not common, one mistake on one form can cause the Dealer to loose his license, get fined or go to jail. Personally, I only charge $20.00 for a transfer. I wouldn't have a problem with a Dealer charging $1,000.00. If you don't like the services being offered go some where else and quit bitching.

 

[cnyankee]

this thread has made me appreciate my local gun shop more than i already do. they are always helpful and freindly, have many employees and when i have a question about something the person im talking to will direct me to another with more knowledge than they have. as far as prices go they are very fair. as an example i bought a s&w 460 VXR list on s & w site for $1313. i paid $1055 for it with no dickering.
they also have an indoor range that they no longer charge me to shoot in.
i wanted to buy a 22lr handgun and they let me use all of their 22lr rentals and gave me 1500 rounds of ammo at no charge.
i was looking to buy a scope and was told that the scope i was looking for they could get but i could find it on the net cheaper.
they aso buy used and do consignments. i had ammo i no longer needed and they bought it off of me. i used the money to help buy another gun from them.
this being the smoke free part of california there is no smoking anywhere indoors (except from the end of a barrel). i walked into their shop for the first time in jan 06 and have treated me great since day 1 and they have been in business for at least 15 years.

 

[Husker1911]

I'd like to say that this thread has been chock full of good observations and information. That which it takes to run a successful gunshop can be said for nearly all retail establishments.

There has been exchange in this thread between both sides of the gun counter. There has been year's worth of observations and knowledge posted here. One could learn a great deal by taking much of this thread to heart.

There are mistakes aplenty made on either side of a sales counter. If one were contemplating opening a shop, I'd recommend giving great council to all posts contained within this thread. And if you're considering such a risky undertaking, I wish you the best of luck. The best years of my life came behind a gun counter. Not a day went bye that I didn't learn something new. Ah, the wonder of life! And may you make a living at it, that's the rub. Shoot straight, my friends!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not if it's placed on public display with no sign stating that handling is not allowed.

Just because you are in public doesn't mean that you suddenly don't adhere to the same rules of ettiquette that you would if you were in someone's home. Again, it's just plain rude, not to mention discourteous and unneighborly.

I'll go back to my car analogy. Let's say you have a car in your drive with a "For Sale" sign in the window. Using your logic, I guess you are okay with anyone and everyone walking up and getting in. They can mess around with the controls, open the hood and pry about, and generally just play around with things to their heart's content. And they can do it without asking, at any time and for any reason, whether they intend to buy the car or not.

Brad

 

[PvtPyle]

While I agree with Brad nearly completely, the dealer should realize that if they have something cool or unusuall for display people are going to play with it. It is the nature of people, and while it may be rude they do it all the time. So a dealer who knows his customers and human nature should either take the time to post a note or put it behind the counter. On the wall or under glass gets attention too. I dont have my NFA stuff out for people to finger unless I want them to play with it. (And I do not see the danger of someone trying to run off with a 5 foot long, 150lb heavy machinegun and tripod).

While people should be polite and ask first, a dealer should know that most wont and take the precautions they deem appropriate. Unless they are just baiting people so they can be an ass.....

 

[Correia]

Dude, if they are strong enough to pick up the DhSK and tripod and run with it, I don't want to mess with them.

 

[qajaq59]

If you don't like the services being offered go some where else and quit bitching.

I rarely bitch, but I frequently do go elsewhere. My money is green everywhere.
Oh, and according to the airline surveys, when a customer is very happy, he tells 5 people. However when he is unhappy, he tells 9.
Food for thought.

 

[2400]

I've waded through this long long thread to see if any ladies had stories about their treatment at the hands of gun shop denizens.

A few years ago my wife was looking for another handgun. We were in one shop and every gun she wanted to see, the salesman would pull it out and take all the way across the store for me to look at. I kept telling him the gun was for HER and that SHE was buying it so it was HER decision. He never got it, so we left. We went across town to another store where the salesman paid attention to HER and what SHE wanted. Other than saying hello to me I might as well been invisable. After she had narrowed her selection down to five she asked me what I thought. I gave her my opinion, she thought it over for a few minutes then she bought not one but two new guns from him.
She made it a point to call the other shop the next day and thank the manager for the way she was treated the day before. It pissed her off to the point she went to another store where she was treated like a CUSTOMER. She then told him about the sales he missed along with the fact that she wouldn'd recomend his shop to anyone she knew.

 

[JohnKSa]

Just because you are in public doesn't mean that you suddenly don't adhere to the same rules of ettiquette that you would if you were in someone's home. Again, it's just plain rude, not to mention discourteous and unneighborly.

Rather than just restate your case again in different words, please tell me what stores you frequent where it is understood that customers may not handle merchandise that is placed on public display (i.e. not under glass, roped off, behind the counter, etc.).

I'll go back to my car analogy.

Go to any car lot, walk up to one of the cars that's for sale, open the door and sit in it. Now wait to see if someone runs over and tells you: "Get out of that car--stop touching it, you didn't ask permission." On the contrary, you'll be welcomed as if you were a long lost friend.

A car for sale in someone's driveway isn't the same as a car in a public car sales lot because a driveway is not a car lot. A gun for sale in someone's house isn't the same as a gun on public display at a gun show because a house is not a store.

The breach of conduct in messing with a car in someone's driveway has more to do with being in their driveway without permission than with touching the car they're selling. The general public is not welcome in a private driveway nor is it welcome to wander into someone's house and examine their posessions. However, the general public IS welcome on a car lot and store owners WANT people to wander into their stores and look at their merchandise.

The whole point of putting merchandise on display is so that potential buyers can look at it, handle it if applicable, and decide if they want it. If a car lot doesn't want people to touch their cars, they'll put up signs (I've never seen one.) If a gun store doesn't want you touching the guns they'll put them behind the counter, under glass, or put up a sign.

 

[deadin]

Or lock the doors. Or run a chain through the trigger guards.

Dean

 

[Brad Johnson]

Rather than just restate your case again in different words, please tell me what stores you frequent where it is understood that customers may not handle merchandise that is placed on public display (i.e. not under glass, roped off, behind the counter, etc.).

You seem bent on being the kind of person I try very hard not to be, so "restating" my position will do no good as it seems lost on you. I've already stated it in unequivocal terms.

Are there some items that are place on display so that you can handle them? Yes. Cleaning supplies, holsters, clothing, are all usually on open display. Guns, on the other hand (especially handguns) are usually cased. And they are cased for a reason - A) They have inherent, concentrated value, and B) Liability.

You usually have to ask to see a handgun in a gun shop. Why, then, do you feel that they rules change just because you are at a gun show. Just because they didn't haul all their glass cases in from their store doesn't mean that the rules change. Guns are still guns - they still have value and the seller still has liability. The only thing that changed was the mindset of the browsers.

And I used the term "browsers" instead of "customers" for a reason. Watch around a show sometime and you will see two kinds of people. The first kind are the ones who hit every table and fondle every gun just because they can. These are the people that get in a huge hissy fit when someone tells them not to handle the guns unless they intend to buy. Then there are the people that look at every table, but when they want to see a specific gun they politely ask the table host if they may see it. Guess which kind of people usually leaves the show with a new gun and which one doesn't?

There's a reason why gun shows have deteriorated to the current Beanie Baby, beef jerky, and pseudo-military clothing bazaars they are today. Dealers got tired of pushy, rude, selfish people with nothing better to do than wear the finish off a bunch of high-dollar inventory without actually having any intention of buying.

Brad

 

[SIXPACK]

I just have one question for you albanian, and I wish for an honest answer.

Where in the world are you able to find 7.62x39 for $2 a box??????????

 

[rbernie]

Dealers got tired of pushy, rude, selfish people with nothing better to do than wear the finish off a bunch of high-dollar inventory without actually having any intention of buying.

I imagine that the converse is also true - buyers get tired of collectors who hang out a shingle and call themselves a dealer when in fact they really can't be bothered to actually *sell* their merchandise. You wanna display it? That's great. Just don't call yourself a dealer, or advertise the item 'for sale'.

I expect anyone calling themselves a dealer to be willing to acquire inventory and disburse inventory. If a 'dealer' can't be bothered to attend to both of those functions equally and with a certain level of enthusiasm and good will, then they're not a dealer that I'll frequent regardless of any other attributes.

The whole point of putting merchandise on display is so that potential buyers can look at it, handle it if applicable, and decide if they want it.
....
If a gun store doesn't want you touching the guns they'll put them behind the counter, under glass, or put up a sign.

And that's just common sense. Doesn't take much to put up a sign, and it doesn't take much manners to read and honor the sign. That's a knife that cuts both ways.

 

[JohnKSa]

"restating" my position will do no good as it seems lost on you. I've already stated it in unequivocal terms.

Well, if you read my post, you'll see that I actually asked you NOT to simply restate your position. So we're on the same page...

You seem bent on being the kind of person I try very hard not to be...

Could be! Mostly who I try not to be is someone who takes himself too seriously.

Why, then, do you feel that they rules change just because you are at a gun show.

They don't change--for me OR FOR THE DEALERS.

I still don't handle guns that are behind glass or protected by a sign without permission. AND dealers who don't want people handling guns at gun shows put them behind glass or put up signs. And yes, at the shows I attend, there are always some dealers with guns behind glass and who post signs.

What I reacted to was your analogy comparing touching a gun on display (no sign and not behind glass) with going up to someone's house and touching and disassembling their car without permission. There is a world of difference between examining & handling merchandise in a public store versus trespassing on someone's property & dirtying & disassembling their car without permission.

Even if we were to accept your claim that handling things in a store is bad manners, it doesn't involve breaking any laws and therefore the analogy, as I stated, is very poor.