Dragunov Tiger 7.62x54r

[seikdel]

Dragunov Tiger 7.62x54r (Now with pics!)

Howdy Folks. I'm brand new to the forum, and I figured that, while I wait for my akfiles account to be validated so I can post, I'd brag/converse here as well!
I very recently acquired a Dragunov Tiger from a friend who was looking to get rid of it to make room for more firearms. Context: He's a SWAT officer who had to move about 15 other guns out of the way in his safe to get at this one.
It's got the 20" barrel, a skeletonized wood stock w/cheek pad, and the original PSO-1 scope (matching serial). It's marked 1993, and as far as I can tell, it's not the California Arms version (no bayonet lug or flash suppressor).
I got 1x5rd and 2x10rd magazines, all of which function perfectly.
I've put about 140rd through it and it is a sheer JOY to shoot.

Now, a little background info about me. I'm an early 20s medical student who got his permit to carry and started collecting pistols about 1.5yr ago. I made it up to 3 pistols (Walther P22, Walther P99, Ruger LCP) before the opportunity to pick this baby up came along. I jumped at it, partially because I think it was a good deal and partially because I've always had a soft spot for the Dragunov (yes, I played too much Far Cry 2 in days of yore).
I am by no means an excellent shot, either with pistols or rifles. My previous training included a very little bit of plinking with a bolt-action single shot 22 and maybe 3 rounds through my dad's British .303. Oh, and the entire 100 rounds of 5.56 that we got to shoot through an M16-A2 in USAF BMT.
I believe I'm improving my technique, especially breathing and trigger pull, but I have a long way to go. I'm waiting for my next semester of financial aid to buy a tin or 2 of milsurp ammo for my new toy.

And I have several questions:
Anyone have experience with the Tiger/SVD? Any tips on use/maintenance?
What are my options for a flash suppressor? I'm honestly not sure if the barrel on mine is threaded or not. I don't know how one removes the front sight on it.
Any recommendations for mods? It already has the skeletonized wood stock, but the hand guards are plastic and some wood furniture up front would be nice.
And while I'm asking too many questions, what is the real difference in mechanism between the SVD/Tiger and PSL? I understand that the gas tube is longer on the PSL and that it's got a stamped receiver (and yes, that it's a different caliber), but is there a significant difference in the gas piston design? What makes the Tiger/SVD "better"?
Any general tips for shooting 100-200yd targets? Just keep practicing?
And finally, what would you folks estimate my rifle being worth? I've seen discussion of $1000-3000 online, but haven't actually spotted an active auction for one.

Thanks again for reading and I appreciate any feedback!

 

[cthulhufan]

I am jealous!

The PSL is nothing more than an AK pattern rifle enlarged to accommodate the larger 7.62x54R cartridge while the Dragunov is a short piston, milled action rifle designed from the ground up around that cartridge. Both shoot equally in the research that I've done but I don't own a Dragunov so I can't speak to that personally.

You already found the AK Files and their Combloc Sniper Rifle section is full of good info but you should also go to http://www.dragunov.net/ to get the straight dope also.

Have fun with that rifle!

 

[Shadow 7D]

wow, gotta rub it in
that is a rare bird
pics or it doesn't exist

BTW
that is the CIVILIAN "sporting" rifle based off the military SVD action, and not an "AK" type rifle.

 

[seikdel]

Thanks much! I've read up on dragunov.net, and it explained a lot of details about the design. I was hoping for a little more description on the AK mechanism. Is it a longer piston? Is the piston stroke shorter or longer?
And is <$1000 for the rifle+scope+3 mags a pretty decent price? Will that get people jealous enough to come and kill me for my weapon?

Edit: Here are the 2 pictures I snapped the first night that I picked it up. Yes, I look silly with white socks and the banjo.

 

[Shadow 7D]

um depending on condition, thats a steal
go check out gunbroker, a PSL, of which there are a crap load of and are considered inferior in their production quality, go for about 750, so yeah thats a good price.

 

[cthulhufan]

If you picked up a Dragunov Tigr for under a grand, you practically stole it. It's not that the rifles are worth that much intrinsically but they aren't over here in quantity so the whole supply / demand effect makes them pricey. I typically see Tigrs sell for 3K and a real Drag will net you more than 7K.

The PSL has a longer piston and the Dragunov's piston is shorter. Here is a cool video that really gets into the nuts and bolts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWUIsDzN78

--James

 

[seikdel]

Thank you much for the link!
A couple other questions: what's the barrel life like? Will I ever have to replace the barrel, and how would I get a new one? Also, does the gas tube just unscrew and does the adjustable gas tube reduce recoil at all?

 

[cthulhufan]

No trouble at all, I very much enjoy shooting the breeze about these rifles. Both are fantastic pieces of hardware.

I can't help you with barrel life; my PSL is chrome lined and I'd figure it's good for 10K or better but I'm no expert on this stuff so who knows.

Ask the folks at dragunov.net or AK Files about that stuff. Post back here with your findings and let us know.

I still hate you for picking that peach up for a grand; you are a dirty dog! Have fun with that rifle and *do* shoot it. Keep to the lighter LPS rounds (~148 gr or so) and don't feed her the heavier 175 - 210 grain stuff and you should prolong her service life.

Did I mention that I'm jealous???

 

[cthulhufan]

Also, if you aren't going to hand load 7.62x54R, do yourself a favor and pick up some 7N1 ammo which is pretty much match grade ammo developed specifically for your rifle. It comes in paper packs or spam cans specifically labeled as "Sniper" in Russian, that's снайпер.

 

[-v-]

IIRC, for the Russian Army to accept a SVD into service, it has to shoot ~1.04 MOA or better with the issue sniper ammo.

So, that's your benchmark for accuracy. Very nice rifle and very rare find you have! Hold on to it, chances are much better then not that if you get rid of it, you will never be able to replace it.

Most surplus ammo you can buy is general issue ammo that runs 2-3 or so MOA. So to get the most, either find a source of match ammo for it, or roll your own.

Now, are you M1 or M2? I'm a M1 myself.

 

[seikdel]

M1? As in 1st year med school? If so, then yup; 2 months in and still breathing.
As far as surplus ammo and cleaning goes, do most folks here do the hot water cleaning for corrosive primers or just a ton of solvent?

 

[fpgt72]

Or start the path to reloading yourself....you got a great rifle at a FANTASTIC price....A tiger for a grand....I am sorry to say but I hate you now

 

[seikdel]

How much does it cost to get started in reloading? I'm afraid that cash is my biggest limiting factor in shooting right now. If I can use a buddy's equipment, what will I need to purchase specific to my caliber?

 

[henschman]

FOr the flash suppressor: you need to find something like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=245213137 On the Tigr, the front sight and flash hider are one unit that pins on. If you find one like the one above, you can unpin your current neutered setup and pin the flash hider front sight on.

For modifications, I would look for a set of the newer Russian SVD furniture. The Russian military upgraded all their SVDs several years back and went to plastic furniture. The stock they went to is really cool with a twisting cheek rest that gives you the same height as the wood stock for shooting with optics, and then twists out of the way for shooting with iron sights under the optic. Don't confuse it with the version of this stock they sell for the Saiga and PSL, which are a lot more common.

As for the difference between the SVD action and the PSL, the PSL uses a direct gas piston action while the SVD uses a short-stroke gas piston. On a direct gas action, the entire bolt carrier is part of a solid piston that runs all the way up to the gas block and is directly operated by the gas from burning gunpowder. On a short stroke, the gas impinges on a small piston, which doesn't have a very long travel -- it just strikes the bolt carrier and causes it to move rearward, cycling the action. A short stroke rifle has less reciprocating mass, and therefore produces better accuracy than a direct gas piston rifle, all else being equal.

As for marksmanship tips, by far the best advice I can give you is to attend an Appleseed marksmanship clinic. Trust me on this one... there is nothing better you can do as a new battle rifle owner to get your skills on par with what your rifle is capable of. The Appleseed curriculum is really a perfect match for the way the Dragunov was intended to be used by the Russians, which is more like what the US military calls a "designated marksman" rifle. Appleseed teaches precision rifle marksmanship from field positions, and is designed to give you all the skills you need to hit a man-sized target out to 500 yards. It is only $70 for a weekend clinic, which even a poor grad student can afford! just ask me, I got involved with this program when I was going through law school! Check out the website: www.appleseedinfo.org/smf.

As for value, I'd say your Tigr is worth a few grand or so.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Without a flash suppressor, what is keeping this rifle from being imported? Or does it have a pure evil threaded barrel?

 

[fpgt72]

As to how much it costs to get into reloading....If you can borrow/use a buddies equipment you are out about $30 for a set of Lee dies. Powder will be ~$30 for a pound and bullets and primers around $100 give or take.

If that is too steep for you at the moment I would strongly suggest using factory ammo in reloadable brass, Partizan or what have you...Save the brass, I would bet one time down the road you will want to reload....or you can even sell it. Brass is pretty expensive for some reason.

 

[9MM MIKE]

Pre ban value

This is what is confusing me. I own the same rifle and saw the same gun sold for 2800.00. Mine is 1977 all matching # on all, yet opeople are telling me its worth 700.00-900.00 same as a century . Any answers ty mike

 

[dogmush]

9MM Mike, a PSL-54c is not the same rifle as a Tigr.

As for value, PSL's are still being imported/built here, and Tigr/SVD's are no longer imported. So supply and demand is affecting values.

FIVETWOSEVEN: IIRC SVD/Tigr's were part of a separate agreement between the Clinton White House and the Russian Federation to not import, regardless of evil feature count.

 

[MD_Willington]

dogmush is correct... however there are some dealers that are capable of importing for LEO/Military clients, no civi sales...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

FIVETWOSEVEN: IIRC SVD/Tigr's were part of a separate agreement between the Clinton White House and the Russian Federation to not import, regardless of evil feature count.

I thought that only applied to handguns, what about the Saigas?

 

[1stmarine]

you know you are a lucky man. That is, what it looks to me a very nice TIGR from the IZMASH plant is Russia. Very hard to come by so stick to it like if it was your gird friend or wife or whatever in a long cold winter night.
This has nothing to do with the PSL and all the other junk circulating around. Other that is very good is the system from the MOLOT plant. those are very nice trunions and are called

Maintenance = almost zero.
It will always shoot but if you want it clean, just clean the bore, wipe it clean and rub some light oil in your fingers and around those parts if you want and that's it.
I would stay away from corrosive surplus but if you do wash it really well and clean it with the air hose.
otherwise put some nice good quality brass 180grainers thorough it and enjoy every second.

I have been looking for a new one in 308win but no luck so far.
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/tigr.shtml

The other that is very nice is from the molot plant. those are called VEPR also in hunting version but they are really good too. not as accurate as the TIGR as some claim.
Also their shotguns VEPR12 are amazing but we are only finding the saigas that are pretty good too.

 

[Sam Cade]

I thought that only applied to handguns, what about the Saigas?

There is a list of importable firearms. If it isn't on the list it can't be imported.

No more SVTs, No more SKSs,No more Drags

(ii) Rifles:

(A) BARS-4 Bolt Action Carbine.

(B) Biathlon Target Rifle, .22LR caliber.

(C) British Enfield Rifle.

(D) CM2, .22 caliber Target Rifle (also known as SM2, 22 caliber).

(E) German Model 98K Rifle.

(F) German Model G41 Rifle.

(G) German Model G43 Rifle.

(H) IZH-94.

(I) LOS-7 Bolt Action Rifle.

(J) MC-7-07.

(K) MC-18-3.

(L) MC-19-07.

(M) MC-105-01.

(N) MC-112-02.

(O) MC-113-02.

(P) MC-115-1.

(Q) MC-125/127.

(R) MC-126.

(S) MC-128.

(T) Saiga Rifle.

(U) Soviet Model 38 Carbine.

(V) Soviet Model 44 Carbine.

(W) Soviet Model 91/30 Rifle.

(X) TOZ 18, .22 caliber Bolt Action Rifle.

(Y) TOZ 55.

(Z) TOZ 78.

(AA) Ural Target Rifle, .22LR caliber.

(BB) VEPR Rifle.

(CC) Winchester Model 1895, Russian Model Rifle

http://www.ttb.gov/rrd/tdatf6.htm

 

[seikdel]

Henschman: Thanks much for the info! I'll be saving for awhile if I want a flash suppressor... and as for the furniture, I've always been partial to wood, so I'd rather save up for a set of wood hand guards. I'll have to do Appleseed sometime next year.
One more question: Is the AK-47 a direct gas piston action as well?
I'll have to look into reloading down the line somewhere. My understanding is that the hardest part for 7.62x54r is finding reloadable brass.

I got some pics taken with the gun stripped. I'll try to get them uploaded.

 

[seikdel]

Here she is, stripped down. Cheek rest is removed, sitting just above the stock. The bolt is removed from the bolt carrier. Gas piston and rod are also removed.


Top-down view of the chamber. On the left from the top down is handguard, bolt and bolt carrier, with the piston rod (correct term?) right next to the barrel. You can see that the rear sight is only marked out to 300m. The SVD ones cost a bundle and I like my PSO, so I might just keep this.
A question I have on the rear sight: When adjusting it, where do I put the knob thingy? Does the front of it sit right at the line for whatever range I want?


Sitting upright. At this point, I should apologize for the quality of the photos. I had to use my cell phone and I had sunlight across half the kitchen table. Ug.


Not a perfect shot down the barrel, but you can see a few different things.

 

[seikdel]

A close-up looking down the gas tube. I need to get in there with a pipe cleaner and get it a little more thoroughly scrubbed. Does this thing just unscrew, by the way, or is it welded in place?


A close-up of the front sight. It'd be nice to replace this with an SVD one at some point, but I need to afford ammo before I can afford a flash suppressor.


The PSO-1 scope, viewed from the left side. Made in Belarus, evidently. My understanding is that these aren't the absolute nicest PSO-1 scopes, but they're still pretty darned good. The bulb is still good in it and I managed to find a battery to power the sucker =)
Also, the front sun shade extends. Is this just to shield from more sun?


And from the right side. I'm not sure what the letters on the rear part of the frame are. Lot or plant number, maybe?