Error on 4473

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The Certification Date (the date the document is signed) is very much a part of the 4473 that the buyer is supposed to fill in. At the top it says that the section (including the Certification Date) "Must Be Completed Personally By Transferee (Buyer). That seems pretty clear to me. Further, by signing the form and not dating it or by making an error on the date, YOU have violated the law. The gun shop is trying to keep both of you out of trouble and you are raking them over the coals and calling them names.

If the actual transfer takes place on a date later than the initial signature, a second signature and a re-certification date is required.

Jim
 
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Say you purchased and firearm from someone, now the sale is done and they call you back and say they should have gathered more info from you because a bill of sale wasn't enough are you going to go back and give them more of what they ask.
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Except that you can't get into legal trouble in that example. There is the possibility that in the OP's situation, he and the store might get in trouble if the 4473 is not filled in correctly. You might not like it but it is the law and you should absolutely not be giving people advice to violate a law which could cause them to lose their 2A rights. Furthermore, even if the OP was free and clear, why would you voluntarily try to screw over the gun store? It just doesn't make any sense at all.
 
I got a call once, just as I got back from a store that's 45 minutes away, the WA pistol transfer form was missing my initials in one box. These stores have 24 hours to fax or mail the form to the buyer's LE agency of first response. I don't know what the consequences of non-compliance is but I could tell this guy was sweating on the phone. As much as I dislike the WA pistol transfer form (it's de facto registration), it is the law, so, early the next morning I went in and took care of the oversight. Needless to say the shopkeeper was happy to see me. He apologized profusely stating it was his fault for not being more careful about reviewing the form.

I've noticed that following this event, the store now has two employees look over the paperwork of every gun transfer, seems they learned something.

Coincidence or not, the next used handgun I purchased there came with a surprising, discount :)

Accordingly, I can't imagine a reason why the OP wouldn't stop by and take care of it.
 
As always, the LAW is a MINIMUM STANDARD. You are not REQUIRED to go beyond what the law requires of you (though this seems at least argued if not arguable).

You might, however, voluntarily choose to go above and beyond. Be a stand-up guy, go back at your earliest convenience, and relieve all concerned (yourself, the manager, the employee in fear of his job) of any cause for worry... not because you HAVE TO, but because you CHOOSE TO.

Take the High Road.
 
Texan Scott
As always, the LAW is a MINIMUM STANDARD. You are not REQUIRED to go beyond what the law requires of you (though this seems at least argued if not arguable).

You might, however, voluntarily choose to go above and beyond. Be a stand-up guy, go back at your earliest convenience, and relieve all concerned (yourself, the manager, the employee in fear of his job) of any cause for worry... not because you HAVE TO, but because you CHOOSE TO.

Take the High Road.
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This is better said and more to what I agree with, good job T.S.
 
Hi, Texan Scott,

True, but what is the applicability here? The law DOES require that the form be signed and dated BY THE BUYER, so doing so is not going beyond the law, it is complying with the law. And not doing so is a violation of the law. What is it about "illegal" that some folks just don't understand?

Jim
 
True, but what is the applicability here? The law DOES require that the form be signed and dated BY THE BUYER, so doing so is not going beyond the law, it is complying with the law. And not doing so is a violation of the law. What is it about "illegal" that some folks just don't understand?
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+1 That's exactly what we're trying to get at...there was a mistake on the 4473 and so the "Minimum Standard" was not met. The OP really needs to go take care of the mistake or else he runs the risk of running afoul of the law and also getting the gun shop into legal trouble.
 
I personally enjoy my sources that sell 2A pleasures. I wouldnt think twice about going to date the form. If anything, just to help keep them open.

As far as being put on a "list".....just talking on my cell phone puts me on one.
Hell, probably joining this forum did as well.

Enjoy your new purchase....finish the form....feel good knowing you did the right thing

Molon Labe
 
Before I even go any deeper, I want to say that I am also of the stance that the OP should just find a way to get it initialed, whether that's stopping by, or whether it's having them mail/fax him a copy and he just sends it back.

That said, as an example from the ATF FAQ

"Q: Who must comply with the requirements of the Brady law?
Federally licensed firearms importers, manufacturers, and dealers must comply with the Brady law prior to the transfer of any firearm to a non-licensed individual.
[18 U.S.C. 922(t), 27 CFR 478.102 ]"

Basically, the law is a limitation of the gun dealer...not the gun purchaser (State laws notwithstanding). The FFL is responsible for ensuring that the form is filled out correctly, and is required by law to ensure that all transfers from them are done as required by statute...

That's why there's a 'gun-show loophole' because it's a law on DEALERS of firearms, not purchasers. A purchaser of a firearm has no requirements to fill out paperwork to buy a gun, but a gun dealer has a requirement to have paperwork filled out (in this case a federal form) to SELL the gun. As long as the purchaser doesn't LIE on the form (Which is something that applies to any federal form, not just a 4473) he should be perfectly fine.

Of course, the gun shop, and the clerk themselves COULD get in trouble for failing to abide by the law of having a fully and correctly filled out 4473 that doesn't indicate the buyer is prohibited from owning guns, and yet still transferring a firearm.

That's been my understanding of the code anyways, and if anyone that disagrees can find a part of the code that contradicts me, I'd love to know.

Once again though, that all said? Just go and initial the form, or find a way to get them an initialed copy if it's a long drive, no reason to mess around with the shop over a silly mistake.
 
A A-hole or not character is not a factor of a firearm sale once ownership transfered its done have you ever tried to return Ammo or a firearm back to a box store?
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Except legally, the gun was not "transferred". Physically it was, but legally the 4473 has to be filled out in its entirety.

Waaaay different than someone forgetting to get a bill of sale, because that's not a legal requirement.
 
If you're a nice guy and make a special trip back to the store to help them straighten out their paperwork, will they be nice guys and give you, say, a box of ammo for your trouble?
 
This thread is why the 4473 must be abolished along with the background check.It used to be that ATF,under the Treasury Dept. wasn't too concerned about mistakes.Now they want to convict and lock up people for mistakes.Yet they won't go after convicted felons who lie on the 4473.
 
MaterDei said:
Sounds to me like the clerk made an error as the 'certification date' is not one of the fields that the buyer fills out.
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Ummm, nope, it's one you fill out, right next to your name on the top of page 2 of the form.

They -should- have caught the error, but it's a field you must complete.
 
matterhari said:
I received a certified letter from Academy that says that the 4473 I filled out a few months ago has an error. Not sure what this means but it says that the 'Certification date was corrected and needs initials'.
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As others have stated, the certification date is the date after your signature that YOU are responsible for filling out. Apparently the store thinks that there is some discrepancy with it.

You'd be pretty stupid NOT to go back to the store and see exactly what was changed on a legal document that you filled out with your information (verified by the FBI) and signature on it.
 
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I've had it happen several times. I just go by and make the correction. (1) It's usually my mistake, and I've made plenty of them in my life, and (2) I don't really enjoy being a butthead.
 
The FFL is responsible for making sure you correctly fill out the form. They missed it and have somehow figured that out. You aren’t in any kind of legal trouble, but the FFL could get into trouble if this (and possible other mistakes) are found by ATF. Help the guys out and stop there to initial the form. They didn’t make the stupid laws; they’re just trying to comply with them.

I don't have the source readily at hand, but I'm pretty sure you don't ever "correct" the original 4473. You are supposed to attach a corrected copy to it, and the FFL keeps both papers together in their files.
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Minor mistakes can be corrected with a single strikethrough and initialed. Major mistakes require a new form and the messed up form is supposed to be attached.
 
MtnCreek said:
Minor mistakes can be corrected with a single strikethrough and initialed. Major mistakes require a new form and the messed up form is supposed to be attached.
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NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

Again, THIS is what the ATF says about correcting mistakes on the 4473 after a transaction has occurred.

"Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should any changes or additions be made to the original Form 4473 after the transfer of the firearm has occurred."

1) Make a COPY of the original.
2) Make any corrections on the COPY.
3) Initial and date the corrections.
4) Attach the corrected COPY to the original.

No corrections on the original.
No new form.
No difference between a minor and a major mistake.
 
I wanted to provide an update.

I wasn't sure which Academy sold me the gun in question, I just couldn't remember. I ended up going to 4 different stores before I found the one that I bought this particular gun in. :) Each store was very friendly and helpful but they could only tell me that I didn't buy the gun in that particular store.

Once I found the right store I initialed the 'ember' that was added to the 'Dec' on the original form that I filled out. That was the extent of the error. How stupid is it that they went through the trouble to send me a certified letter and I went to 4 different stores so that I could change a 'Dec' to 'December'.

It's quite ironic that I went through all of this to make an insignificant change to a form that I'm required to fill out to exercise my God-given right to Keep and Bear Arms on Independence Day. For the record, I'm not mad at Academy as they were just covering their asses from our out of control federal government. On a more positive note, as I was going from store to store I managed to pick up 1000 rounds of 5.56 and several hundred rounds of 22LR.
 
How stupid is it that they went through the trouble to send me a certified letter and I went to 4 different stores so that I could change a 'Dec' to 'December'.
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Very, considering that I know my customers have done that and my IOI didn't say a word about it during my last compliance inspection.
 
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