Ever had a dealer refuse to accept a transfer Buds?

[hemiram]

I really only go to one LGS, mostly because the others have prices on used guns that equal the online prices for a new one, and/or they charge insane transfer fees. I don't understand the logic of refusing a transfer, a few minutes work, and $20-30 files into your pocket. I was there one day, and I transferred 2 guns, and at least 8 more were done in the 45 minutes or so before I left. $250 an hour for a one man operation isn't bad at all.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Never done business with Buds, myself. However, I always call ahead to a shop to see if they'll be willing to do an FFL transfer. Never had one turn down a transfer yet.

Like anybody else, there may be a personal bias on the part of the LGS owner(s). If so, they may not wish to discuss it because that's just what it is...a personal bias, for whatever reason. Just accept it and call around to some other LGS's.

 

[DammitBoy]

If my dealer orders a gun for me, it's his cost plus $50 bucks. If he can't get the gun, I buy it online and it ships to him and he makes $25 bucks on the transfer fee.

Easy peezy.

 

[burk]

Unlike other businesses that have been reduced to showrooms (i.e. Best Buy) There is still the chance to make money off of those shoppers with the transfer..

Yeah, same for the FFL I use. A few minutes of work for $25, pretty nice for them. They're a small pawn shop that sells guns but they rarely have more than half a dozen pistols at any given time (and maybe 40 assorted long guns).

Something that just amazes me these days is how little non retail employees think an employees time is worth.

#1 You're not just paying for the "time" of an LGS. They have to pay rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc. just to open the doors.

#2 This doesn't include the costs of maintaining a Gun Log, FFL, or software if you're running e-gun logging systems. Many have monthly fees with a high initial investment.

#3 How much should an LGS employee be paid, evidently you think less than that burger pusher at Mickey-D's. And an employee at an LGS not only needs to know product, how to demonstrate firearms safely, they need to be a para-legal when it comes to the myriad of gun laws across the country.

#4 As far as that "few minutes", the firearm has to received, logged in, serial # verified, And if it's a registration or FOID state that paperwork has to be filled out too. Plus, the delivering FFL is subject to law suit if they don't inform you about safe storage, and various state laws. In MI, I suspect the average for a handgun transfer is 30-45 minutes. NO LGS is making money charging $25 for that service.

You should thank any LGS that is willing to do you a big favor doing that transfer for anything less than about $50, because I can guarantee you they aren't breaking even on them at $25. As someone who works part time in a gun store, I can guarentee you a lot more goes into this than you think.

 

[BSA1]

Something that just amazes me these days is how little non retail employees think an employees time is worth.

#1 You're not just paying for the "time" of an LGS. They have to pay rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc. just to open the doors.

Since you are a businessman you know how important cash flow is especially when dealing with banks and lending instituations.

#2 This doesn't include the costs of maintaining a Gun Log, FFL, or software if you're running e-gun logging systems. Many have monthly fees with a high initial investment.

Paper and pen is much cheaper and just as legal for the BATF.

#3 How much should an LGS employee be paid, evidently you think less than that burger pusher at Mickey-D's..

Is it more cost effective to have the employee sitting around playing games on the computer or be doing a transfer?

And an employee at an LGS not only needs to know product, how to demonstrate firearms safely, they need to be a para-legal when it comes to the myriad of gun laws across the country.

Well shouldn’t a salesperson know about any product they are selling and how to demonstrate or explain how to use it?

As for knowledge of gun laws I am satisfied if they know the laws for my community and the state. I don’t know anyone you knows all of the “myriad of gun laws across the country.” In fact employees should not be giving any legal advice.

#4 As far as that "few minutes", the firearm has to received, logged in, serial # verified, And if it's a registration or FOID state that paperwork has to be filled out too. Plus, the delivering FFL is subject to law suit if they don't inform you about safe storage, and various state laws. In MI, I suspect the average for a handgun transfer is 30-45 minutes. NO LGS is making money charging $25 for that service.

That is a state issue that the dealer has to decide what the cost to him really is. It is not a requirement in my state and is literally a 10 minute transaction..

As I previously said ;

"Having the experience of managing a LGS those owners that refuse to do transfers are cutting their own throat.

Generally speaking there is little profit in gun sales (at least prior to The Great Panic of 2013). The profit comes from sales of ammo and accessories such as replacement grips, gun cases, etc. The more often you can get a person to return to your store the greater the chances of a sale."

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Something that just amazes me these days is how little non retail employees think an employees time is worth.

Stuff removed for space considerations.

#4 As far as that "few minutes", the firearm has to received, logged in, serial # verified, And if it's a registration or FOID state that paperwork has to be filled out too. Plus, the delivering FFL is subject to law suit if they don't inform you about safe storage, and various state laws. In MI, I suspect the average for a handgun transfer is 30-45 minutes. NO LGS is making money charging $25 for that service.

You should thank any LGS that is willing to do you a big favor doing that transfer for anything less than about $50, because I can guarantee you they aren't breaking even on them at $25. As someone who works part time in a gun store, I can guarentee you a lot more goes into this than you think.

Personally, I think that if ANY LGS is willing to do an FFL transfer for whatever they charge, be that $20, $25, $30, $50, or whatever, then I think THAT LGS is perfectly happy with charging what they do for the process as part of what they do to stay in business.

If they DON'T think it's worth their time, then they'll simply say "No, thank you, we don't do FFL transfers".

I don't tell any LGS how they should or should not run their business.

On the other hand, they don't tell me how I should or should not spend my money.

 

[DammitBoy]

You should thank any LGS that is willing to do you a big favor doing that transfer for anything less than about $50, because I can guarantee you they aren't breaking even on them at $25.

I do, I thank him with my patronage of his business. Which is pretty much the point...

 

[22-rimfire]

I have never purchased a gun through Buds. I tend to pay the local dealer premium if I want something.

This whole topic is a very difficult one for both the buyer and transferring FFL dealer. Some would say..... made $25 or $50 for 20 minutes of effort. They also pay for insurance inside their shop which the buyer is essentially tapping into should the gun be stolen between the time it is received and transferred. Some would say... they are paying for it anyway. But these premiums are generally based on gross revenue.

The other aspect in this is that I have absolutely no idea how many guns are typically transferred by a typical gun shop in a month or year's time.

 

[wojownik]

A year or so back, I wanted to order a pistol in from Buds, so I called a local FFL dealer to let him know I would like to transfer the pistol in through the shop. The dealer noted that he had that item in stock, asked the Buds price ($499 including shipping) and could get "real close" to the price of the Bud's item with shipping and fees (I didn't remind him again that shipping was free with Buds). I said I'd be right over.

Well, "real close" still meant almost $100 more than the combined Bud's price and his $40 FFL fee. He noted that he won't transfer in a gun if he has it already in stock, neither would any other FFL in my area. I have no quibble a store not wanting to transfer guns they already have in stock.

But the price difference was worth discussing. I carefully noted that the $100 dollar difference isn't really "real close," and could he do any better on the price, to which he sharply responded that "people just seem to want to get freebies." At that point, I politely disengaged from the conversation, and haven't been back there since.

The story ends with me driving by another LGS on the way back home, and found the same model in the case for $50 more than the Buds' price. I felt better about keeping my business with an LGS, being able to see the item in the store, getting a decent price.

 

[oneounceload]

Will dealers eventually price themselves out of business due to internet sales?

And IF that happens, who do you get to do your transfers?.......

 

[orionengnr]

You should thank any LGS that is willing to do you a big favor doing that transfer for anything less than about $50, because I can guarantee you they aren't breaking even on them at $25.

I do all my business at a small LGS. Small, as in not a large inventory.
Probably 50% of their business is transfers...for which they charge $20 each. And they do quite a few. If they were losing money doing this, they wouldn't do it.

I won't buy a new gun elsewhere and ask them to transfer it in. I do tell them what I am looking for, and if they can get it, I'll buy it from them. They don't try to make a killing on each sale, and are very transparent about their pricing--they make about 10% on each sale. I may have to wait a while, as they are small and are apparently not high on the distributors' priority list.

No, I have never bought a gun from Bud's, although I have perused their site from time to time. My LGS may not beat their price, but she won't screw me either. I am happy to have a good LGS (and by "local", I mean a five-minute walk from my front door). I will spend a few extra bucks to keep her in business. The first box of ammo I put through a gun typically makes up that difference.

When the LCP came out, I wanted one, so I waited. Took a while, but when she got one in, she called me and I got it for $256 (plus tax, etc.). Was that worth the wait? When I wanted an S&W E-Series, I waited. But she eventually got one in, and I was happy to get it. I told her I was looking at the Ruger SR1911 when they first came out. What's that been, three or four years? Well, about two months ago she got in a SR1911 Commander, and let me know. I went in, looked it over and (since I already own "almost" enough 1911s) called a friend, who came in and bought it on the spot. I won't tell you the price, because you'd cry. Okay, if you want to cry, pm me.
I'm currently waiting on a Kahr CW380 to replace the long-gone LCP. Yeah, I've been waiting a while, and I'll wait a while longer, but when she gets one, she'll call me, and the price will be right.

I have, from time to time, bought a used gun (generally, something that is no longer made, such as an S&W M-66) and have them do the transfer on that. It does not represent a missed sales opportunity for them, but it is an opportunity to make $20. I take all of my shooting friends there. Nearly all of them have bought at least one gun there; many are repeat customers.

A good dealer can take care of their customers, offer transfers and still make a nice profit. I've been dealing with them for almost ten years now and I'm confident they will be in business ten years from now.

My LGS is in North TX--and she can order and ship nationwide as well. If you'd like to give her a try, pm me and I will send you her contact info.
She will treat you well. Please reciprocate.

 

[jerkface11]

Some of you seem to think a gunshop makes less money doing a transfer for $25 than they do when they sell NOTHING.

 

[Agsalaska]

I was going to respond to his post but BSA in post 30 pretty much said it.

The gun business is changing rapidly. Those that do not embrace the internet will fail.

 

[AKElroy]

Quote:
Will dealers eventually price themselves out of business due to internet sales?
And IF that happens, who do you get to do your transfers?.......

The market never leaves a permanent vacuum. The pricing/service/delivery parts of this equation will work themselves out. On-line vendor prices will go where the market allows, as will the LGS. If retail sales become unprofitable due to on-line competition, then some will leave the marketplace. When that happens enough, pricing control will then pass to the online retailer, and prices will go up.

This will create new retail LGS opportunities, as well as rewards for the expansion of other revenue production, whether it be transfers, CHL/training, ammo and related merchandise, etc.

I personally would love to see my LGS offer reloading classes.

Competition creates innovation, and in the end we all benefit as consumers. As for the sellers, whether they be on-line or local, they will need to continue innovation or the market will run its course to their detriment.

It is an old saying, but in business, we adapt or die.

 

[DammitBoy]

Any smart LGS will do themselves a favor by getting into the online sales business. I encouraged my LGS to try doing a few gunbroker auctions several years ago.

Now, he says about 10% of his sales are through gunbroker. Adapt and overcome or become extinct...

 

[KTXdm9]

I'm not in the habit of giving away my money. If I can buy cheaper online, I will. However, I will give my LGS a first look before buying online.

 

[StrutStopper]

I don't buy guns all that often. I've got a LGS about a mile from my house. Everything they have in stock is marked way up. They do transfers for $35, about the same as most around here that I've dealt with. If I am in the market to buy a gun they have in stock, I'll ask them what they could do about the price. The person I've dealt with (owner's son) has dropped the price for me on one occasion for a gun he had in stock. It ended up costing a bit more than Buds, but I bought it there anyway. Another time, I was ready to buy from KY Gun Co and have it transferred there. When I went in to ask if it would be okay, they checked on what it would cost to order the gun for me. It was close enough that I bought local. I am planning to buy another gun soon, they did not have one in stock when I went in to check. Bud's has the best price on the gun I'm looking for. When I save a few bucks and am ready to buy, I will look into what it will cost me to go through them to order. If it's too high, I'll just buy it from Buds and do the transfer thing. I've seen prices in that store for several hundred more than I would have to pay online. While I'd like to support their business, I'm not well off enough to spend several hundred more than I have to.

 

[burk]

I do, I thank him with my patronage of his business. Which is pretty much the point...

And that's mine.

For a real retailer, not some basement operation it's pretty much a loss leader. I would hope that most of us would go out of our way to thank them and try to spend some dollars there to make his time more worthwhile. The reality is for a serious brick and mortar location with any real inventory investment, they'd go out of business if all they did was transfer.

It's a bit of a different reality for the basement guy whose doing it as a hobby. But for a real full service LGS there are a lot more productive uses of their time than doing transfers. As long as we as customers are grateful and realize this it's OK. But going in there with an attiude that your doing him a "favor" because he's getting rich off gun transfers is just BS.

 

[Agsalaska]

adapt or die.

 

[22-rimfire]

Some of you seem to think a gunshop makes less money doing a transfer for $25 than they do when they sell NOTHING.

That is the quandry that transfers put FFL dealers in, especially with new guns. Most have no problem with used guns, especially collector grade stuff.

I am not a FFL dealer, but there are times when I would rather make nothing than price a product or service so low that it potentially impacts future sales. You have to draw a line at some point and then live with it. I will get into another line of business rather than give it away for nearly free or cost.

All that said, IF I believed I could do sufficient firearm transfers (volume) to make having a FFL with almost no inventory a viable business, I'd do it.

 

[burk]

Since you are a businessman you know how important cash flow is especially when dealing with banks and lending instituations.

And for a large full service LGS, the money spent on a transfer is negative cash flow if you're paying an employee more than about $10 an hour. How many dollars do you have to lose per hour to stay in business?

Paper and pen is much cheaper and just as legal for the BATF

Not if you're a decent volume gun shop. Paper and pen is slow, especially if you need to cross reference. Checking in a large gun order with pen and paper is extremely time consuming and not as accurate. Also most REAL stores like to link their bound back to their inventory system.

Is it more cost effective to have the employee sitting around playing games on the computer or be doing a transfer?

True, but the inverse is it could take an employee away from selling a gun because they are tied up doing a transfer. If your employees are sitting around, you either have too many of them or your a fool because most days at our LGS people are taking numbers to buy guns and ammo.

Well shouldn’t a salesperson know about any product they are selling and how to demonstrate or explain how to use it?

As for knowledge of gun laws I am satisfied if they know the laws for my community and the state. I don’t know anyone you knows all of the “myriad of gun laws across the country.” In fact employees should not be giving any legal advice.

I agree, but the reality is that "customer" avoided paying for that employee's knowledge because they wanted a hot internet deal from an operation that doesn't need knowledgeable sales staff to explain the differences in product and demonstrate it correctly to customers. As far as legal advice, you'd be surprised how many of those phone calls or customers come in every day.

Generally speaking there is little profit in gun sales (at least prior to The Great Panic of 2013). The profit comes from sales of ammo and accessories such as replacement grips, gun cases, etc. The more often you can get a person to return to your store the greater the chances of a sale."

I agree, that's why most stores do transfers as a loss leader and a service to their customers. And that's good, just be grateful, that's all I'm saying.

 

[DammitBoy]

No Burk, it looks like the point is still lost on you. The LGS is not doing me a favor by doing transfers, he is doing transfers as a smart business decision to keep customers coming back to his store.

If a LGS looks at transfers as a loss leader, he's foolish. There are two LGS's near me I do not shop at because they don't want to do transfers and make it a pain in the butt to work with them. The guy in town who gets all my business makes it an easy and enjoyable transaction.

 

[happygeek]

Something that just amazes me these days is how little non retail employees think an employees time is worth.

It's not that we think their time isn't worth much, it's that we aren't willing to pay an unnecessary and/or unwanted middle man a markup for no logical reason. I really couldn't care less how much the local Barnes & Noble pays their employees or how much they charge for books, I just shop on Amazon where I can read reviews and order used for way less.

 

[jerkface11]

And for a large full service LGS, the money spent on a transfer is negative cash flow if you're paying an employee more than about $10 an hour. How many dollars do you have to lose per hour to stay in business?

You don't seem to understand that no matter what the shop charges to do a transfer it's still more than NOTHING. They also have the opportunity to say something like "would you like a box of ammo for that we have several types?"

 

[Sock Puppet]

But going in there with an attiude that your doing him a "favor" because he's getting rich off gun transfers is just BS.

I haven't seen that attitude, and know absolutely no one who personally who would adopt it when dealing with their local LGS.