Ever had a dealer refuse to accept a transfer Buds?

[devildog66]

Have seen one who charges an extra xfer fee for a Bud's firearm and the store claims it is because Bud's undercuts them on like items.

 

[burk]

You don't seem to understand that no matter what the shop charges to do a transfer it's still more than NOTHING. They also have the opportunity to say something like "would you like a box of ammo for that we have several types?"

Wow, I'd love to see some of you guys start your own retail operation since it's so easy to make big bucks doing transfers.

First rent or buy a fairly high traffic retail location in a good part of town, then purchase insurance, business licenses, go thru safety inspections, get a good alarm system. Oh, and you might as well keep it well stocked with all the latests and greatest in firearms and accesscories. That will take a loan from your local financial institution, but when they see your businesses plans for getting rich off gun transfers I'm sure they'll line up to give you a loan. Hire a couple of people so you can take a day off occasionally. And then open the doors and join the 1% doing $25 transfers from Buds. Maybe you can sell a holster or gun case with the deal, although your "loyal" customer will probably ask you to match some internet price on that too. You might as well do it, after all $25 transfers are great cash flow. :banghead:

 

[jerkface11]

$25 transfers is way better cashflow than the $0 a disapointed would be customer generates.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

Going back to the original post.

My former LGS (since closed) would accept transfers from anywhere except Buds. He had no problem accepting shipments from CDNN, Aimsurplus, CTD, J&G or anywhere else I can remember ordering from online. He had been burned once or twice by them shipping the wrong item and refused to accept future transfers.

 

[burk]

$25 transfers is way better cashflow than the $0 a disapointed would be customer generates.

Again, what part of gun shops are so busy this day that real paying customers who actually buy guns end up walking while you're doing a transfer, do you not get? Payroll is a finite resource. When your payroll is busy doing things that don't even pay their salary, it's actually cheaper if they aren't there, period. If that employee is full time w/benefits you lose money on every transfer. I don't know what things are like where you live. But in MI it's hard to get waited on in a gun shop.

When customers who want to buy something from your shop are walking out the door because your busy doing a transfer from Buds your business model sucks.

I'm not condemning anyone for looking for the best deal on line, and used guns are a whole different ball of wax, you almost have to go on line to find certain items. But remember the reality is your local gun shop is doing you a big favor doing that transfer, that's all I'm saying. Thank them for it and try to throw them some real business to keep them around.

It's getting harder and harder to make a living with a brick and mortar retail operation. I worked in the outdoor segment of sporting goods as a rep for years, and managed a store before that. And it amazes me how many people complain about the lack of service from a big box, but then ask a small local retailer to match that big box price. With the internet it's even worse. At least that Big Box has an employee, although they are underpaid, overworked, and either over qualified or clueless. But with the on line guy your "service" is being provided by software. Service cost money, so don't complain if you aren't willing to pay for it.

 

[tarosean]

adapt or die.

Unfortunately when/if they die you will be left with fewer choices. I certainly would never want to see the day where Walmart or other big box stores are my only choice...

 

[burk]

unfortunately when/if they die you will be left with fewer choices. I certainly would never want to see the day where walmart or other big box stores are my only choice...

Exactly !


And those Big Boxes are subject to a lot more pressures. Remember when Dicks pulled thier AR's? Bass Pro did for a time, too. If those are your only choices and we have another Sandy Hook we're screwed. Buds low prices aren't worth a whole lot if all the LGS are out of business because of them.

 

[jerkface11]

Again, what part of gun shops are so busy this day that real paying customers who actually buy guns end up walking while you're doing a transfer, do you not get?

The gunshops around here do not stay busy all day. They get swarms of customers followed by hours of nothing. When busy they tell the transfers to wait until the rush is over. You sir must work in a gunshop though since you keep making up reasons to tell people no.

 

[mgkdrgn]

My dealer loves transfers. 5 minutes of work for $30, whats not to like? Then again, my dealer will also transfer up to 5 guns at a time for the same flat $30 fee. I go to this gun shop.

Trust me, he isn't getting them done in "5 minutes" (ya, that is all YOU see, but that is not ALL that is done, by a long shot), and still has to index and store those records, so that he can find YOUR individual record if asked, for the next 20 YEARS.

 

[burk]

The gunshops around here do not stay busy all day. They get swarms of customers followed by hours of nothing. When busy they tell the transfers to wait until the rush is over. You sir must work in a gunshop though since you keep making up reasons to tell people no.

Not that way around here.

I do work part time in a big box gun shop, and I do whatever the management tells me to do in regards to transfers or anything else.They don't listen to me anyway. And for the record I treat every customer like a good customer. But I can assure you if I told a guy waiting for a transfer he had to go to the back of the line, I'd never hear the end of it. They'd be calling corporate that day. And I don't know of any LGS around here doing that.

And I'm not making up reasons, I'm just stating the obvious. You and for that matter most of the public has no idea what it takes to make money in a reatail operation these days. I've dealt with small retail shops for years as a Sales rep, and the days of the small retailer in any catagory surviving are getting fewer and fewer. And it isn't the Big Boxes that are doing it, because they still have many of the same cost pressures and service issues. It's the on line dealers, because they have so much less overhead without a retail location.

But before you say they have to adapt or die remember adapting may mean a future where we never see a gun till we buy it and since guns have to be transfered thru a dealer we may have to drive a couple of hundred miles to find one still operating. Most of them right now make far more profit on ranges and service. In fact I don't know how you can have a profitable LGS without a range, the margins just don't cover the costs. In the Flyfishing business there are large metropolitan areas of the country no longer serviced by a Fly shop. But some local got a great price on-line.

Remember the earlier parroted line in this thread about cash flow being "cash flow", NONSENSE. I had a large sporting goods chain for a customer years ago that adopted a "best price in town" stratagy. So if anyone had a lower price even as a lost leader they set it for their every day price. There was one lure (Hot-n-tot) that they paid 2.78 for and sold them everyday for 2.49. They sold thousands of them, got great cash flow NO AMOUNT OF VOLUME will make that plan work. They had a department full of loss leaders, they are also out of business. This sounds like your business plan for an LGS. :banghead:

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I think a lot of people here complaining about lost revenue for an LGS that would, somehow, lower themselves to doing the paperwork for an FFL transfer are quite forgetting something:

FFL transfers are IN ADDITION to whatever other business is going on at the time. I SERIOUSLY doubt that every moment of the business hours is spent productively engaging in non-stop firearms/ammunition/gun stuff sales.

$35 for a few minutes of time doing an FFL transfer is still better than $0 spent during that SAME amount of time which does not produce any sales at all. In either case, the employee doing the work must STILL be paid.

It's not as if taking that amount of time out of the work day is going to actually result in a LOSS in revenue because the salesman didn't close a deal on a gun or box of ammo to someone else.

Come on, people.

 

[22-rimfire]

$35 for a few minutes of time doing an FFL transfer is still better than $0 spent during that SAME amount of time which does not produce any sales at all. In either case, the employee doing the work must STILL be paid.

It's not as if taking that amount of time out of the work day is going to actually result in a LOSS in revenue because the salesman didn't close a deal on a gun or box of ammo to someone else.

I provide a service and I have done some jobs for very low prices, but the customer almost always has no conception that I did them a favor. (They think their $2 is just as important to me as $20 from another customer.)

If you make transfers wait until other customers are taken care of, you make them upset because most of them don't understand that for the most part, it is a favor. If you charge a higher amount for the transfer, then it results in the same attitude. It's a tough kind of business decision. Usually the gun shop charges a locally competitive rate for the transfer and you essentially "stand in line" for your turn for service the same as the other guy sending $1000 if they are busy. Once you agree as a business to provide a service at whatever price point, you treat all customers well regardless of the amount of money involved.

So I go back to my original statement that at times I would rather make NOTHING then charge a heavily discounted price unless it is a regular customer. For the regular customer, it is a different situation.

 

[Derry 1946]

I looked back at some recent transfers. My preferred LGS charges $50, which seems a bit high. But I value the fact that they are there and they provide good customer service. For example, they will test a used revolver (newly acquired but not from them) by taking it over to their range and putting some rounds through it: no charge. Gun seems to hang up or misfire? Let'a take a look. If it turns out to be something simple, no charge. I've never seen more than about three customers in there at a time. I'm often the only one. Don't really know how they stay in business, but they've been there for generations, so they must be doing something right. When buying a new gun, I check with them first. If they can't beat a price I've found (+$50), they just say so. They're respectful, knowledgeable, and friendly, and always seem to remember me, despite the infrequency of my visits. Again, it's a mystery how they keep the doors open. The last thing I bought there is a gun belt, the kind with all the bullet holders. It was NOS, and I'm betting it has hung on its peg since the 50s, with an ancient price tag.

I bought my first gun there (a 1925 hand ejector). I'm glad they're still there, so I don't sweat the high-ish transfer fee. And to the point, they don't balk at Buds or anybody else.

 

[Agsalaska]

Unfortunately when/if they die you will be left with fewer choices. I certainly would never want to see the day where Walmart or other big box stores are my only choice...

That is not true. When they die they are most often replaced with better choices.

 

[rondog]

Personally, I do my transfers through one certain man. He's a retired gent, and he handles transfers at home. That's all he does... no buying guns, no selling guns, he only facilitates transfers for people.

Doesn't matter if you're buying from a private seller locally or across the country, or any online retailer, you need a transfer he'll handle it, and for a low flat rate. And he's so busy you have to make an appointment with him. Seems to me like he's got a pretty sweet gig going.

 

[xwingband]

A smart FFL wouldn't deny a transfer from Buds. Same as said above... an FFL/Dealer is already doing all the stuff that someone solely into transfers does. He already has to account for his time, he already maintains a "bound book", etc...

So a smart FFL simply minimizes his time to do transfers from anyone regardless of if it's Buds.

I don't have one since I moved but I liked my old FFL because they had an online form to do transfers. This was the only notice they needed. I didn't have to call and tie up an employee. So before they even have the gun at all, it just takes is an email or fax to the sending FFL to get it going. Since they already collected the info from me with no work on their part they have auto-generated a fax sheet or email. They may even be auto-sending those, so no employee time is needed! Then when it came to them they have been keeping info electronically... they look up the serial #, mark it as received. They know it's for me in their system and a few clicks and a call to me is the investment. The biggest investment from them is calling in the 4473 when I pick it up. Now that I'm there I can impulse buy all sorts of things they have nice margins on.

It's all run efficiently so the investment is minimal. For some they don't have the "know-how" or there's other circumstances, but if the investment of time is less than the cost, it's a no-brainer to do transfers.

 

[Redlg155]

Pehaps a dealer or someone could chime in and let us know what the average markup is on a firearm.

From what I am hearing, given that a transfer is $30-$40, a dealer is losing money on every firearm sold that is under $300-$400 if he only has a 10% markup. Thus doing the buyer a favor by selling us Keltec. 380s, Most common .22lr entry level rifles, Ruger LCPs..well just about anything under 3-4 hundred in price.

 

[DammitBoy]

Well Burk, I guess I should give you my LGS's phone number so you can explain to him how he's an idiot and losing money by doing $25 transfers.

After all, he's only been running a successful gun store for 40 years, what the hell does he know?! lol

Do you know that sometimes this idiot waives my transfer fee altogether and tells me thanks for all my business and referrals!! You should hurry and call him before he goes broke...

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Have seen one who charges an extra xfer fee for a Bud's firearm and the store claims it is because Bud's undercuts them on like items.

Yes and my local gun shop wants 75 to 100 Bucks for a transfer from Buds or CTD.

 

[KTXdm9]

I think a lot of people here complaining about lost revenue for an LGS that would, somehow, lower themselves to doing the paperwork for an FFL transfer are quite forgetting something:

FFL transfers are IN ADDITION to whatever other business is going on at the time. I SERIOUSLY doubt that every moment of the business hours is spent productively engaging in non-stop firearms/ammunition/gun stuff sales.

$35 for a few minutes of time doing an FFL transfer is still better than $0 spent during that SAME amount of time which does not produce any sales at all. In either case, the employee doing the work must STILL be paid.

It's not as if taking that amount of time out of the work day is going to actually result in a LOSS in revenue because the salesman didn't close a deal on a gun or box of ammo to someone else.

Come on, people.

Well said sir. I think some folks are confused on what incremental cash flow and sunk costs are.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

i know of one LGS that charges more (double, if i remember correctly) for a transfer from bud's.

sales tax for the local purchase vs. transfer fee for the bud's purchase usually negate each other. bud's usually beats the local price by 15-20%. the decision is pretty easy for me to make.

 

[primalmu]

I've purchased 3 guns from Bud's, only because my LGS could not get them. A Savage Hog Hunter .308, a Marlin XT-22 with wood stock (LGS could only get synthetic stocks), and my Rock River Arms AR-15. Luckily my LGS doesn't mind doing transfers and usually gets several from Buds every day. The way I see it, they make $35 on the transfer, plus I buy all my powder from them, mainly because I haven't been able to afford to buy enough powder to make the hazmat fee worthwhile.

 

[akodo]

It is all in how they look at it. On one hand 10 sales and 1 transfer can be seen as the flip side of 11 sales especially if it is for a gun they carry. On the other it can be seen as 10 sales plus a little bit of bous cash during down time.

You can't really say which for sure.

Regarding 10% markup generally lower end items are marked up more and high end items less. There may be order minimums or 'if you want the hot new model you need to order more of the plane jane stuff' type situations coming into play.

 

[Jason_W]

Most shops in my area charge $30-$45 for a transfer. I think that's reasonable.

I worked briefly at a mid-sized independent gun shop and a majority of the customers for whom we completed a transfer from an outside party usually also walked away with quite a bit in the way of ammo and accessories from the shop.

If I buy a firearm from buds or on gunbroker and the LGS that makes the transfer provides good, polite, and honest service, I'm going to buy things like optics and ammo at that shop. If I'm tapped out after the gun purchase, I'll be back to that good shop once my cash supply has been replenished.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Speculation aside I think it's pretty obvious that the FFL feels it's worth doing the transfers for a fee. They're not charities and if they weren't making money off it they wouldn't be doing it, period. The little pawn shop I use has raked in a couple hundred bucks from me in transfers for very little work on their part and very little time. I had never set foot in there before I found them on Bud's list of preferred FFLs, so that alone was probably worth it for them.